Came across a Warriors fan trade that has us helping them get Dwight
by Alexis Jones on Feb 19, 2012 2:39 PM EST
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I happen to be reading trade rumors and a Warrior's fan came up with this:
Warriors trade Stephen Curry/Kwame Brown/Dorrell Wright/Ekpe Udoh/Jeremy Tyler/max cash
Gets Dwight Howard/Glen Davis )
Magic trade Dwight Howard/Hedo Turkoglu/Chris Duhon/Glen Davis
Gets Kemba Walker/Boris Diaw/Dorrell Wright/Tyrus Thomas/Kwame Brown/Ekpe Udoh/2012 Bobcats 2nd/2013 Portland 1st 3.46 tpe(from us)
Bobcats trade Boris Diaw/Tyrus Thomas/Kemba Walker/2012 2nd/2013 Portland 1st
Gets Stephen Curry/Hedo Turkoglu/Chris Duhon/Jeremy Tyler
They gave a reasonable excuse why the Magic would bite at this. 1st they get rid of 3 of their 4 horrible contracts. Next they will go from having the highest pay roll to 8 million below the cap and 20 million next year. They also will likely get a lotto pick in this deep draft and have a high pick to take one of the top 4 center prospects next year.
Warriors want a superstar at any cost and are ready to blow up their roster. They will have tons of cap space next year if Dwight walks that's said to be their front office thinking.
I honestly think this is a trade to help all 3 teams with their rebuilding process.
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we're taking on a lot of cash with Hedo
23.6 million over the next two seasons, that’s more than we’ve ever paid anyone before
if he excersized his option in 2013, it would greatly reduce our chances at a free agent, or, more importantly, keeping curry around
also, dwight would already be a warrior, but golden state wasn’t willing to give up curry – what has changed their mind since other than insignificant ankle sprains? He’s been on a tear lately.
If there were a way to get Curry on this team (and we know that getting Dwight would be the only thing that the Warrios would consider letting him go over), without having to get Hedo, I’d do it.
I’d still consider it otherwise, as long as it was reasonably certain he would resign with us.
talk about major roster upheaval
for everyone involved lol. Course, it’s the only real way to make it work considering the centerpieces of who all is invovled.
If they called me with this offer, I'd immediately hang up the phone
Slam it down loud enough to ring their ears actually. Duhon and Hedo are 3 more years at a total clip nearing $50 million and it requires giving up 3 of our better assets (Diaw’s expiring, Kemba, and a first round pick). That is way too high of a price just to get rid of Tyrus and get Curry, who I like but isn’t a superstar by any means.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 19, 2012 6:16 PM EST reply actions
check curry's stats since coming back from injury
he’s been beasting it
but yeah, you’re right, we’re giving up WAY too much in this trade, which is saying a lot since we don’t actually have much
Yeah, I agree
I was saying we would have to land a super duper star to give up that much.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 19, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
The only good thing we are giving up
is Walker. I don’t trust the front office to make a good pick in the range where Portland would be picking. They can have Diaw’s lazy self and Tyrus with so,so much potential lol.
by Alexis Jones on Feb 20, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Sure
But I include taking back Duhon and Hedo’s contracts as giving up a lot.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 20, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Duhon would go into Livongston's tpe
I supposed. Yeah I really do not want to take on Hedo’s contract, but when Hedo’s contract expires it’s going to be a big free agent year and we could use his contract as a trading chip or make a big splash. We are going to trade Augustine and we would need a backup pg and a little over 7 million dollars for 2 years is back up money. If we can quickly find a place for Diop and Carroll after or before the trade I say do it. We will still be under the cap though which is very intriguing to me.
When Curry contract expires we would have
Maggette, Diop and Carroll contracts off our books. So we wouldn’t have no problem resigning him.
i think the magic would decline
i dont think they get enough in this deal compared to what they could get from other teams
my 1st reaction to I was like what the hell
for Dwight Howard. Then I realized they get rid of 3 of 4 of their worst contracts. Their pay role is the highest in the league at over 85 million and with this trade they get nearly 8 million under this season and 20-23 million under next season. Their are better center prospects in next year draft where they can get a high pick if they do this trade.Basically they use the best center in the league to get rid of their terrible contracts which is very sad and the reason Otis Smith should be fired. Dwight has said he is not signing with the Lakers because of Shaq and the Lakers are not renting him. Do they really want Brook Lopez who can’t rebound and have to pay him big this summer? To sum it up the Magic get cap space and the last laugh.
by Alexis Jones on Feb 19, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
We could buy Hedo out
I’m not familiar with buyout rules. Nate Robinson got a buyout this year but his full salary is listed on the Thunder’s pay roll. Richard Hamilton’s buy out salary is listed on Detroit’s pay role though. Ok I was just reading the cba rules website and ironically they had the exact amount of his contract for their example. Anyway I think we should buy him out for 16 million. He has an ego problem remember him with Toronto?
To buyout Hedo
We would have to pay him what he’s owed over the next 3 seasons. In other words, not happening. I doubt very seriously Hedo is going to give up $18 million just because we ask nicely.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 19, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
You would not have to pay him what he is owed
that’s the amnesty. Are we talking about the same Hedo that wanted his whole contract void to get out of Toronto?
by Alexis Jones on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
if we amnesty hedo
we would still be responsible for paying him the difference of whatever another team bid, but it wouldn’t go against the cap – initially I thought we could only amnesty players that were on our roster at the start of the new CBA, but that isn’t true – as long as we haven’t used our amnesty, we can amnesty any player who had a contract prior to this season on any team in the league
it’ll be the same situation as tyrus, we’ll only amnesty him if it we need the space to sign someone
Thanks I heard you couldn't amnesty players you trade for.
I think the highest a team would bid is 4 million for the next 2 years each. That’s 15.5 million we would have to pay
by Alexis Jones on Feb 20, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
We can only amnesty players we had on the roster when the lockout started
So we can’t acquire a player and then use the amnesty on him.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 20, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
that's what i thought
but literally just read otherwise yesterday, i’ll find the link
it makes since, too, since it lasts the entire cba, but no contracts that existed before this season last until 2015-2016
My thoughts are i think management should do the trade.
I love Steph. If some how we can throw Carroll in there and get some cash then definitely do it. We are essentially trading
Kemba for Steph
Livingston tpe for Duhon
Tyrus and Carroll for Hedo
Diaw a 2nd and a1st to help us with the trade.
We could use the cash to buy a late 1st.
23.5 million is what Hedo is owed after this season. 29.6 million is what Tyrus and Carroll would be making after this season.
So we actually save 6 million. I guess it is just thought of having Hedo’s contract lol.
This
trade would need picks for it to happen, obviously. Thoughts?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7ap6ald
We wouldnt get but
maybe one pick for that deal. MAYBE…because we get two exprings. And I dont see Tyrus in any deal bringing in any picks back.
No way for the Magic
I know his trade seemed terrible for Dwight but the Magic get rid of 3 of their bad contracts in the trade and a young player. It’s good for us and Dallas but no way for Magic.
by Alexis Jones on Feb 20, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Duhon's contract isn't that bad for a back up pg. 7 million next 2 years
Looking at his stats when he was in NYK with minutes were decent. If the Magic take Carroll too I say pull the trigger. We are most likely drafting Davis or if we don’t get a chance to draft him move Biyombio to the 4 and get a taller center in free agency.
My true judgement of Rich Cho
is the TIMEFRAME and the Return that we get on Tyrus Thomas. Any GM can deal Augustin (which I still think he already dropped the ball on). Any GM can deal an Expiring (which I think he already dropped the ball on)…but the true testament to how good this guy really is is how fast and advantageous he deals with Tyrus. Anybody can deal Thomas when he’s expiring. We’ll see if the Rich Cho experiment is another MJ FAIL…
Explain to me how Cho has dropped the ball
Please do that for me. You realize the trade deadline is a month away, right?
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 20, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
DJ's value isnt what it was
At the beginning of the season, he was looking terrific. We shouldve traded then. Now he’s been injured and he is playing subpar. What we couldve had for him is nowhere near where it was. its no way that it will ever be that high again. He is nearly out of all the trade suggestions in which he used to be. His name is now overtaken by Sessions and Johnny Flynn. So yeah, I think we dropped the ball. We shouldve put Kemba at the drivers seat and just traded DJ when he was looking like a monster. Those days are long gone. His confidence is shot, he’s been playing out of position and he’s been inconsistent since the two PG set. So I think he dropped the ball of getting the MOST out of Augustin. The most he will be will be trade filler.
Again. Cho cant do anything to impress me at this point other than get rid of Tyrus without us geting stuck with another Diop/Carroll type contract. Or get us another lottery pick (by trading Henderson). Which would be bold enough to let me know he is for real about building a contending product.
I don't think GMs are that short sighted
DJ has been in the league 4 years so everyone knows what he can do and what he can’t do. A 3 game string of awesome or atrocious games isn’t going to shift someone’s opinion of a player they have seen play in 300+ games.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 20, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but Injuries matter...
His play from last season was enough was enuff to trade him before the season even started. So its not being short sighted. Its being smart. Even before the injury he started to falter and look terrible.
I don't think there is any evidence he has been terrible
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 20, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
there's still no guarantee we don't resign him
we’re not getting the kind of PG we need through the draft (unless we convert a SG to PG like an Austin Rivers or Doron Lamb), so we may as well keep him around… he’ll probably be cheaper than some of those veteran point guards
we should at least see what offers are out there for him, definately don’t want to spend more than 7 million on DJ Augustin
why not jus get Dragic
you save money and he’s a bigger guard, capable of playing the SG in some sets?
he's not going to be considerably cheaper
unless people overbid on DJ, in which case we’re not keeping him anyway
but DJ knows our system, is confident in it and runs it well, is considerably more effcient and turns the ball over less
Dragic is fine if we can’t sign DJ – he’s a tall, defensive minded pass first point guard that we’ve been clamoring for – the proper antithesis for Kemba Walker
but Kemba hasn’t really proved he’s capable of being our future point guard, either, so it may be safer to keep DJ around for awhile – it’s not as if we’re going to win tons more games next year, either… well compared to THIS season maybe, but I mean, we’re still gonna be a high lottery team
Didn't like 9 games
get Conley Jr. 45 million? Probably less than that.
by Alexis Jones on Feb 20, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
DJ has been back for three games
and started for two, one of which was a double double
the entire team looked bad against indiana, it’s not like some GM is gonna be like, man DJ Augustin really cost them that Indiana game, I don’t want him on my team
of course, we could’ve traded DJ early in the season, like you say, except that would’ve made us even less competitive, and that’s what you’ve been crying about all season
if we trade hendo, it shouldn’t just be a for a lottery pick, but specifically a top 8 pick, and i can’t see anyone making that deal before draft night
PS kemba is BEST when we play two small gaurds, so i don’t know why you would say otherwise? based on what?
Well we cant play two small guards.
that doesnt work. He’s gonna have to learn to play when we have regular sized players in position. He plays better with small guards bc he doesnt have to focus on passing. But DJ plays better with regular sized guards. He may have a good game here or there but the two guard set isnt helping DJ.
As far as Hendo. No way. Top 8? I dont kno about that. A lottery pick is fine. Lets not overrate to get who WE want. But to be realistic. The top 20 of this draft all have the POTENTIAL (i hate that word) to be great. From Austin Rivers to MKG to Kris Joseph. So any lottery pick is good for me for Hendo. It frees up Cap Space also. And there are some good SGs (Eric Gordon, Mayo, Miles, Meeks, Delfino). All of them arent better than Hendo (Meeks) but imagine Lamb and Gordon or Rivers and Mayo. Starting to look legitimate right? I think so. I just think anything in the lottery is good for Hendo.
He's good but he def isnt better than any Combination
of any one of those FAs AND any top 20 ranked SG. Doron or Jermey Lamb AND MAYO or GORDON or Kris Joseph and CJ Miles.. whew…
They have Lamb and Beal slipping in the bottom of the top 10
now. We need a 2 that can shoot the lights, well we kind of need anybody that can. Those 2 can be that. What are you guys top 5 draft choices if we get 2 lottery picks.
- PICK
1. Anthony Davis
2. Andre Drummond(If Oakley comes back)
3. Harrison Barnes
2-4
1.Andre Drummond
2. Harrison Barnes
3.Anthony Davis(A team like Cavs or Utah could luck up and get the 1st.)
10-14
1. Austin Rivers(if he declares)
2.Jeremy Lamb(Kemba and Lamb would be fun)
3.Perry Jones(he is compared to Durant)
4.Brad Beal
5. Meyers Leonard
by Alexis Jones on Feb 20, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to know a few things:
1) Even if players’ trade values fluctuated rapidly from game to game like you seem to imply, how was Cho suppose to know Augustin wouldn’t continue his upward trend?
2) How have we dropped the ball on getting rid of expirings? We aren’t even near the trade deadline yet. Have you seen any other trades taking place that we could be getting in on? Because I sure haven’t.
3) You give me the impression that if Cho doesn’t work wonders with Tyrus’ ridiculous contract, he’s a failure. How is that fair? It would take a minor miracle to get rid of Tyrus’ contract without taking on something bad in return.
1. Its not about KNOWING anything. DJ was a high value since season’s end. He started off hot. A few teams needed PGs. He had the low contract, the youth to go along with PRODUCTION. Why did we wait? No bottom feeding team was gonna take DJ for a high draft pick. So that only really left contenders. So basically the most we couldve got for DJ was a upper teen to bottom 1st. Idk what we were shooting for but we couldve got that pick earlier. Before his trade value sunk. He’s been hurt and he’s had terrible games. I said at the beginning of the season, there is no way to get DJA’s value any higher so we should just trade him. Now we probably will have to take trash back just to get that late pick.
2. I said Diaw not EXPIRINGS…
3. Yes and I mean it. Any competent GM can do what Cho has done up until this point. I did like the Mullens moves but Im inclined to think we wouldve ended up with something just as good (not saying much at this point) with any other GM. Reggie Williams was a given. Good move but not one that I thought was out of this world. Any normal couch potato wouldve tried to get Reggie. Any competent can move a player like Augustin. But Im looking at him as the person to turn this thing around. Maggs will be expiring. Diop will be expiring. They can be moved too. But I wanna see what he can do with the real ROADBLOCK contract. The one that will have us stuck for years to come. Again, The other moves he’ll make (other than trade Hendo for a first) are easy for a GM. Handling Tyrus’ contract will be the move to impress me.
how about chilling out until the trade deadline?
no one takes on expirings until the trade deadline, when teams have a good idea whether or not they’re going to need expirings, so why don’t you get off your high horse and let things go
it’s not necessary to trade diaw, anyway, unless we can get picks for him – that entirely depends on what other teams are doing, not Cho – the cap space of letting him walk for nothing is still more valuable than trying to trade him for a mediocre player on a three + year contract
finally, Rich Cho doesn’t need you to be impressed to keep his job, thankfully
Calm down Adam
We all know focus would be a better GM than Cho. I’m sure he has a law degree and 15 years of experience working in an NBA front office.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 21, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
my bad
I totally forgot he graduated from the same tiny college as Jeremy Lin.
Lol.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 22, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
if you're saying it's the same 3 posters that disagree with you
i think you should probably recount
there’s probably a one in front of that three
Nah...
I agree with them…just getting tired of the same “INSERT WORD HERE” from you.
Actually,
would you have any interest in writing articles for Trade Street Post? I can’t seem to convince Michael Procton to…so perhaps you’d be interested.
For that matter…is there anyone here who would like to start writing articles and game recaps for Trade Street Post?
Shoot an email to tradestreetpost@yahoo.com if you would. We always enjoy new perspective.
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Feb 22, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, we're not hating on you focus
I just think your expectations for Cho are a little too high. The man was dealt 2-7 offsuit and you expect him to take down pocket aces.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 23, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Correct...
and I’m serious about a writing gig…that call goes out to all
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Feb 23, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
1) I’m pretty sure DJ Augustin is still DJ Augustin. He’s still the same player. If a team liked him before, they’ll still like him now. If a team didn’t like him before, they still wouldn’t like him. It’s not like he’s completely imploded or anything.
2) You said expirings:
Any GM can deal an Expiring (which I think he already dropped the ball on)…
3) The fact that we have a “competent” GM should be an accomplishment in and of itself. And we don’t have to make spectacular moves all the time. Every move made thus far has benefited the team and that’s really all we can ask out of a GM.
sigh...
not to say you’re even right that we could’ve done that deal for DJ but for you to say we should’ve tried to trade DJ for a late teens to bottom first rd pick when his value was at his highest just made me facepalm and almost discount the rest of your post.
There’s no need to rush anything with DJ whatsoever – we still have him through next season and I’m sure if we decide we can part with him (once we get another PG on the roster better than Higgins) then we may pull a deal but DJ has more value to us right now than a low teens/late 1st rounder. If anything there’s potential he could become more valuable – with him starting I just don’t see his value really dropping even if his play hasn’t been great lately (umm rust perhaps?).
And did you finally say that Diop can actually be moved??? Maybe if we were to take back bad contracts and Diop would agree to not exercise his player option it would be possible. It could be slightly more do-able next season when he’s an expiring contract but it would have to be the right team that’s trying to dump future salaries pretty desperately.
With TT – the board should know I dog him more than anyone else and probably with good reason but I really do think our best bet is to keep him for next season and get some people (Jordan!) to light a freakin fire under him and then hope his value can climb a bit. How you gonna ask Cho to trade him when his value is honestly at an all time low?
Thomas is probably not going to get any better
the things we would have expected to see tangible improvement in that shows us he’s “getting it” haven’t come to fruition… we’ve given him enough time
it’s in our best interest, financially wise, to try and ship him off with a pick for an expiring, or whatever the best deal might be, and hope someone else can turn him around
We have DJ through next season?
I didn’t think we extended him…or would that extension be for the 13-14 season?
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Feb 22, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
i assume he meant "until"
if not, JPCats785, DJ Augustin is a restricted free agent this offseason.
Most trade scenarios are impossible to be done until after March 1st.
In order to make trades work, the salaries have to match up reasonably. In order to make the salaries match, certain players have to be thrown in. Most of those players are ineligable to be traded until March 1st. Therefore, even if Cho wanted to make a trade, he’d be blocked by that stipulation. So you should probably hold onto your criticisms until the time has passed.
If you disagree with my opinion, I will take it personally.
by Panthers FTW on Feb 20, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Hedo makes too much and Curry is injury prone. This isn’t a good deal for us at all.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 21, 2012 8:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
he's had a history of sprained ankles
he had surgery to correct the problem and will probably have to have surgery again in the offseason
it’s a minor surgery – i’ve had it done for the very same problem at the same place (ortho clinic in charlotte) all they do is scrape off torn bits of tendon from sprains that could calcify and cause bone spurs and then they snip a tiny bit of tendon to promote growth and tightening, in very serious cases, they actually cut the tendon and then sew it back together (i don’t know if they literally sew it or just use that as a general term), making it tighter – you have to stay totally off of your ankle for like 9 weeks in this scenario, then pretty intense rehab once you can actually walk on it
i’ve had one sprained ankle since my surgery and it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as previous one’s have been
Crash missed several games for us because of sprained ankles, so did Tyrus Thomas. It’s probably the most common basketball injury. If situations arise that are like Curry and myself, if one doesn’t heal properly, it’ll happen again. It doesn’t affect explosiveness, just what would normally be a simple roll to some results in a sprain. His surgery was sucessful but sprains in basketball are almost impossible to avoid. The Warriors kept him out extra time and in a walking boot so that it would be sure to heal properly. Obviously, it’s not affecting his game.
So, from someone who knows exactly what they’re talking about in this situation, let’s not label Stephen Curry injury prone at this point in his career.
In my eyes,
He is injury prone. Not to the point of being Brandon Roy or Michael Redd, but enough to not be worthy of taking on the contracts or Turkoglu and Duhon. Chronic sprained ankles, no matter how minor they are, cause players to miss games which is all that matters in the end. It’s also the primary reason he is no longer untouchable. But you’re right, it may not be fair to label him as injury prone. However, it remains to be seen if the issue is actually corrected or not.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 21, 2012 4:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In my eyes,Qq
He is injury prone. Not to the point of being Brandon Roy or Michael Redd, but enough to not be worthy of taking on the contracts or Turkoglu and Duhon. Chronic sprained ankles, no matter how minor they are, cause players to miss games which is all that matters in the end. It’s also the primary reason he is no longer untouchable. But you’re right, it may not be fair to label him as injury prone. However, it remains to be seen if the issue is actually corrected or not.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
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