5 Degrees of Byron Mullens (aka Why the Plan is Working)
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 9:31 AM EST
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Paul Allen's loss is our gain.
Let's play 5 Degrees of Kevin Bacon. I'll start with D.J. White Byron Mullens we'll eventually get to Paul Allen. Fun right? You betcha. Lets get started.
I've found some positives about this young season that aren't really being discussed in depth right now, and if you can't recognize these as things that bode well to the future, your name might as well be Micheal Procton (just kidding Procto).
First of all, we have to start with some of the young talent we’ve traded for with Cho at the helm (DJ White, Byron Mullens). While neither are at, or ever will become all-stars, they’re exactly the kind of pieces contending teams need. Take this line from Connor into consideration: (continued after the jump)
D.J. White: The usually efficient White shot only 4-10 from the field for nine points, but managed to provide six rebounds in 26 minutes. A mediocre night, I’d say, and a below-average game from him. Grade: C+
We’re considering that below-average game. For DJ White. That means from one of our players, we’ve come to expect a better performance from them. From DJ White. The mere fact that we have someone on this team, that is young and cheap, and is not already a well-known quantity (such as Kemba or Bismack) is a hell of a find for the future of the team. Also, take the example we’re having from Byron Mullens. I give you an example from David's recap of the Heat tar and feathering which paints a similar picture as White's above:
Byron Mullens: Mullens’ toughest game as a Bobcat yet and still not enough of a presence on the boards (3 rebounds, zero offensive) as Silas would certainly like to see. Still, he provides the height, athleticism, and scoring that I think will make it tough to keep him on the bench for long.
Since those words were written, he's matched the expectations set for him. He's still a poor rebounder and defender (did anyone else see how badly JORDAN HILL(!) destroyed him in the post?!). But he adds scoring gosh darnit, and someone on this damn team has to be to do that sometimes. Anyway, these two have been, with the exception of Augustin, models of consistency all season. Oh, that's not it, the best news is yet to come! These guys will never be All-Stars (wait, I thought I said this was supposed to be good news?). This is actually a positive, mainly because we'll never have to pay them like they are one. Hell, hopefully they'll stay under the radar long enough to not garner any significant attention around the league. If that's the case, these guys should be offered long term extensions as soon as possible. Sure, there's some risk (isn't there always risk in the phrase "long term?") but in all likelihood we'd be playing these cheap, improving players more than they're actually worth, and if you have a squad full of under-valued guys, you're going to have enough money and competitiveness to be able to retain your All-Star caliber players (hopefully Kemba? BIS-MACK BI-YOM-BO? Lottery pick selection?). Financial flexibility is a hell of a thing, and it's pretty cool that Cho recognizes this.
Speaking of Cho (I've gotta hand it to myself for a hell of transition here, you should too), what do DJ White and Byron Mullens have in common? They were both drafted by a Thunder team he helped scout for and played assistant GM for. He The team acquired them for what amounts to Nazr Mohammad's expiring contract and a 2nd round pick (he even got them to pay Mullen's contract this season. What a guy!). "So Cho knows how to pull off good trades, we knew that already Connor!" you may say. Well, I say, "NOT SO FAST, MY FRIEND!" These two players show how good Richard Cho is at scouting talent, something we've learned our former GM (does Kwame Brown ring a bell?) wasn't very adept at. The mere fact he was around when these players were picked means he was one of the people scouting them and seeing whether they had the talent to be NBA players. Well, so far it looks like not only did he have a hand in creating the favorite in the Western Conference, he was good enough to bring some of that quality depth he helped draft in OKC to Charlotte, and so far he appears to be 2/2 1/1 (It's still 100% success rate!) White and Mullens were victims of too much talent around them in OKC. With the playing time to show what they've got, it looks like Cho knew what he was doing back in those OKC days. And if he was good enough to spot and draft diamonds in the rough like White and Mullens, are you really willing to bet that Cho made the WRONG decision with his picks of BIS-MACK BI-YOM-BO and Kemba Walker? If you still really think Kemba and BIYOMBO were bad choices after reading this, then I don't know what to tell you. Congrats on drawing that line in the sand. You're a stick in the mud who won't budge no matter how much someone debates with you. You're basically Micheal Procton (gosh, you know I'm kidding Procto!).
In conclusion, that right there is some proof that Richard Cho is pretty good at this General Manger thing and that if he's running this ship, it's going to take some bad luck (not winning the lottery, career threatening injuries, etc) for this team not to be a contender by at the latest 2015. And I think that's something we can all get behind as Bobcat's fans. So thank Paul Allen for showing us, for what might be the 5673th (I'm not really sure, I've lost count) foolish thing he's done. how badly he botched the GM job in Portland. Heres to you Paul Allen, you magnificent son of a bitch.
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As a Blazers and Cho fan
I have no problem with Paul Allen letting him go. Even with ridiculous injuries, the Blazers weren’t ready to blow it up. Cho was being wasted in Portland. He’s now in the perfect situation for him, and in my opinion he’s doing a great job. Maybe it doesn’t work out (look at the Oden/Roy/Aldridge trio) but you guys have the building blocks to be great in as little as 3-4 years. Sure that’s a long time, but it could be the Jail Blazers…
by Batumshakalaka on Jan 11, 2012 10:49 AM EST reply actions
Or it could be the Bobcats...
In seven-plus years of existence, we’re now at about a .380 winning percentage with one trip to the playoffs that resulted in a first-round raping at the hands of the Magic. Maybe that’s why I’m not off in fairytaleland regarding “our future.” I’ve heard this same song many a time before.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Jameer Nelson took advantage of Ray Felton while he was in a bent-over position. Repeatedly. He often got other members of his, umm, team in on the act.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, trust me...
It was a nightmare.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
DJ White was acquired before Rich Cho worked for the Bobcats
I agree with the general tone of the text, but we should give credit to MJ and his boys for bringing White in.
Mullens is a freakin’ revelation, and the entire Bobcats FO deserves credit for this gem. At first I thought he’d be a great shooter who could steal minutes at the 5 just because he’s tall, but the kid is showing a willingness to bang in the post as well. I love it.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 10:55 AM EST reply actions
D'oh.
Huge over-sight on my part.
Oh well, the jist of my point still stands, even though it just got kinda ruined by facts.
Damn them.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
hahaha. Love it. Patience, patience, patience Bobcat faithful. It sucks i know. But also think that towards the future with White and Mullens that with the way they’re playing we could mortgage them for other pieces if we so choose. I like the foundation we have though. Mullens should be starting until Diop gets his weight down. Its almost sad to watch.
Not sure what you mean about Kwame Brown and our "previous GM."
Are you saying Higgins made a bad move to sign him last year? It seemed to work out pretty well.
Further, if we’re talking about Cho’s brilliant personnel moves, are you really going to use Mullens and White (who are essentially producing by default) to justify the selections of Biyombo and Walker? Because he hasn’t exactly been the triggerman on many roster moves. He signed Oberto last year, who promptly retired about a week later, having not cracked the rotation. The only other major move he made was the trade for Wallace, which everyone should be able to admit had as much to do with the Bobcats’ front office ineptitude as anything brilliant Cho pulled off.
I’m sorry, but while Mullens and White have been good players (and White, as noted above, was not Cho’s doing), they are not in any way franchise-changers. They are 10-20 MPG players on a good team who are looking far better than they are because we simply don’t have the talent (or bodies) to supplant them on the depth chart.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:38 PM EST reply actions
I was referring to Micheal Jordan's ineptitude at evaluating talent.
One of the biggest busts in the history of the league was the Wizards taking Kwame #1 with Micheal Jordan as GM, and he’s proved time and time again how poor he is at evaluating talent. I didn’t think I’d have to spell it out.
And you’re ignoring the whole point of the story I just wrote. I said, pretty clearly, in letters, that neither one of them were going to be All-Stars. They aren’t going to be franchise changers. But they are exactly what you said they are (good players) and because they’re merely good, they’ll be underpriced. We’ll be paying for good production from our role players without an exorbitant price tag, and it’s due to Cho making good choices that we’re in the position we are to retain them for cheap. They’re just pieces to the larger puzzle, one where we’re still missing a lot of pieces.
And yes, I do believe that having a hand in drafting DJ White (who looks to be quite the player considering his draft position) and Mullens (looking more and more like a good/great backup C to average starting C), and then being able to GET Mullens here for nothing, showing that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Considering where Mullens and White were drafted (not to mention all the other phenomenal players OKC has drafted with Cho’s keen eye for talent that made them expendable in the first place), it’s remarkable how good his track record is.
Maybe Kemba and Biyombo are going to be busts, I can’t tell the future. But I sure as hell will trust in a guy who has a record for evaluating talent as keenly as Cho appears to over a guy whose opinions and facts support only what he wants to support.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Jordan was never the GM, in either Washington or Charlotte.
And I did not say that White and Mullens are, at large, good players. They have been good players on this team where they are given minutes and opportunity because there is no other choice. They’re average at best, and wouldn’t be seeing anywhere near the minutes (or reaching the production) on a better team.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder
will CHO use our trade exception. PLEASE do. And I wonder who he’d bring in. I wish I could see what this database they speak of looks like. And what players they are looking at and why. I should be a GM. Oh and Cho, since you are reading this: TWILL or Wes Johnson next…
Haha, is this just bait to start an argument?
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Database?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
2 things
1. Procton, your little act trying to pretend to be the Skip Bayless of charlotte area sports is so pathetic. chill out man you clearly arent a fan of the Bobcats or Panthers so why are you even here?
2. I hate when people blame MJ for drafting Kwame Brown. At least do some research, MJ was planning his comeback and wanted help right away. He wanted to trade the pick for Elton Brand but the higher ups would have nothing of it since they knew MJ wouldn’t be around long anyway. Plus its not like Kwame was considered a reach at the time anyway
2 things
1. Catnation, your little act of defining other people’s lives reeks of self-grandeur. So pathetic. Chill out man you clearly have enough problems in your own life to worry about running others’.
2. I hate when people apologize for their heroes when they make bad decisions.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
As what?
A physical talent? Certainly not. But I’ll take the guy who can make the winning plays at the end of games rather than the one pitching underhanded interceptions with his non-throwing hand to lose a game.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
In case you need a history lesson:
This was in 2004. The Patriots had the game in hand. Up 5 in the last two minutes over the 2-11 Dolphins. Tom Brady threw a pass while being wrestled to the ground by Jason Taylor. The pass was intercepted by Brendon Ayanbadejo. The Dolphins proceeded to score the game-winning TD on the ensuing drive to send the Patriots to only their second loss of the season.
Everybody makes mistakes.
if this is the model for the bobcats then theirs one flaw
no pre-existing kevin durant type in place to lead the drafted gems. seattle had drafted durant and played him as young leader from day 1 before the move to OVC. we had no young leader STARTING, playing and taking lumps from day one. kemba maybe? dont think so but he can find a great role here anyway. this coming draft I see no durants either, its not barnes, davis is WAY to raw, and we have a sullinger type already thats10 x’s MORE RAW in biyombo. not saying that we dont have the right model, but if you plan on drafting around 1 core star, you need a stockpile of picks. we dont have it. actually unless we trade boris+ najera for future 1st’s to at least average or below teams, we might be 1st round less in a few years to chicago of all people. and we need to try to parley augustin (plus someone? carroll?) into a pick + a role player. maybe to denver for PG miller plus a future pick? we net a pick plus the cap savings from miller end of season. bottom line is just drafting is comparable to a roll of the dice. you come up craps more often then not.
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Jan 12, 2012 12:23 PM EST reply actions
You're right on it.
The theory behind the Bobcats’ current plan is sound. However, their execution of it to date certainly leaves one to question how much success they’ll find outside of simply getting lucky.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Oh trust me, BB, I feel you completly.
This is year one. We’re hoping Bismack Biyombo can become our C for the future. No star, but someone in the Ibaka mold. I only use Ibaka as an example not because he’s at OKC, but because that’s a good comparison for him right now. Active on defense and an elite rebounder, not someone we’ll be looking for our offense except a couple post possessions a game and some put backs. Kemba, we don’t know what we have in him yet. He doesn’t appear to be the kind of player to defer to the star we’ll be trying to pick in year two (more on that in a second) but if his offense improves, he could certainly become someone like Russell Westbrook to our Kevin Durant. (Sorry about all the OKC examples, but honestly, that’s the kind of team it appears we’re trying to emulate.)
The reason we suck right now is so that we can get the #1 pick in the draft. That’s year two, turning our #1 draft pick into a superstar. If he can’t become a superstar, our plan is set back 1-3 years. We’ll keep picking high in the draft until we get that superstar, all the while doing our best to find inexpensive, young, valuable role players like White and Mullens to be there when we’re ready to compete.
As for “stock-piling first round picks,” that’s why I’ve been advocating finding someone willing to take Diaw, Augustin, or a combination of those two for first round picks. They’re our only tangible assets (other than our current draft picks, which are untouchable) besides Tyrus Thomas (who I don’t see us getting a first round pick for, so that’s a moot point), so we should be aggressively shopping them for first round picks.
Do you feel me?
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 12, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
I've been told repeatedly that there are no first-round picks to be had.
That’s why we got ripped off for Jackson and Livingston to follow up on the barely first-round picks we got for All-Star Gerald Wallace.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
We loved Wallace, but he wasn't worth much more than we got him.
If you look through unbias eyes, getting two first round picks may have not been a coup for Wallace, but I feel it’s fair value for someone who made a All Star game (barely, at that) only once in his career.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 12, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Someone who immediately stepped in as the #3 offensive option and a top defender on a playoff team?
How do you figure? Or was he biasing his own performance?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 13, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
Number three weapon.
That says it all.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 13, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well they did have
Roy and Lamarcus…And now he and Aldridge are tied at ONE. Face it CB, we got screwed big time in the Wallace trade. And no, his value was not down when we traded him…
by focuslja on Jan 13, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope. Aldridge is still the number 1 option period.
And it’s funny how you can always remove yourself from the mindframe that everyone was in at that time, but luckily, this is the internet and I have full documentation.
http://www.rufusonfire.com/2010/12/21/1889334/to-rebuild-or-not-to-rebuild-that-is-the-question
If Wallace’s trade value was so high, then why would I be proposing trades like Crash and Diop for Turiaf, Williams, and Curry while not getting anyone seriously debating the offer? Face it, the market isn’t dictated by what you feel a player is worth but by what you are offered for that player. Unless you can tell me a better deal that was offered that we turned down in favor of this, then you’re simply just talking crazy homey.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 13, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I think teams just knew what we were trying to do
And I wouldve def took that deal bc all those players became free agents…
So to you a Crash getting Diop off the books
is a good deal but getting multiple first round picks back for him isn’t?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 13, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Im just saying if
Wallace got us two UNLOTTERY picks….what the heck do you think DJ is gonna get us?
Wallace got us the 19th pick.
AND another pick that can be high as 14th (this is Portland’s pick. Wallace will opt out and they don’t know if Batum will sign back. Roy is retired and Oden may never play again. Camby may retire as well. Portland isn’t guaranteed to be great). Wallace also brought us back Dante Cunningham (role player, know you hate him) and Joel Pryzbilla (who teams still covet to this day). As I said, I’m not expecting to get a slew of draft picks for D.J. Just a fair trade. 25th pick in the draft isn’t a fair trade for D.J. It’s just what it is.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 14, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
As high as 14th...
And as low as 32nd. And three months of Dante Cunningham didn’t exactly give us anything noteworthy, nor did the zero total games we got out of the retired Joel Przybilla.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 14, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Lmao.
32nd? Are you thinking about the NFL. Let’s at least talk about the right sport Michael. Geez. And guess what. Joel Pryzbilla was never meant to be here long term either. I guess that you thought the plan was to sign him to an extension huh?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 14, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I thought we'd try and get something that would actually help the team, yeah.
Crazy, I guess.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Draft picks?
Yeah, it’s crazy that you completely overlook these and the salary dump as NOT helping the team.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
How long is it lottery protected for? Permanently?
by Tim Rudisill on Jan 14, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Not 100% on this but
2013 first round draft pick (top 12 protected in 2013, top 12 protected in 2014, top 12 protected in 2015, unprotected in 2016) from Portland. ? Portland Pick conditions are a bit sketchy but this was reported Blazersedge.com
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011 (Completed)
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land (In Process)
This is accurate.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
ovc = oKc
sorry
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Jan 12, 2012 12:24 PM EST reply actions
Our model is very flawed...
we dont have the personel that Seattle had to make major or even mid major moves. DJ is not gonna net us anything better than 18 (and thats a stretch)…Diaw wont either. The most we can hope for is to trade to late round picks for a mid teens (15-17) and hope someone bites. And I seriously doubt that. The best thing for us to do is to let Diaw walk. With that being said. This also means that we are probably stuck with Tyrus. His contract is too big. I cant name one team that would take him at this point. NOT ONE. And I dont see him doing good enough for it to change. I wouldve gladly took Harrington for Thomas but Harrington is playing great this year so thats outta the question. Maggette is the same case as Thomas. And so is Diop…Im sorry guys but we def cant use OKC model. Because our team is way worse personnel wise than Seattle ever was…
by focuslja on Jan 12, 2012 1:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We were mismanged for years.
This is Cho’s first year to start executing his plan. You’re saying our model is flawed based on exactly one year of trying? You should learn to be more patient, it’s a nice thing.
I’m ignoring everything you said because you aren’t bringing forward a plan that makes us championship contenders.
It’s easy to criticize, it’s not easy to create.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 12, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
This will take a few years if we're lucky.
We’ll have to draft well and wait out ridiculous contracts before we can get into free agency or big trades. Another draft bust or dumb signing and we’re right back where we started.
Exactly.
Which is why posts that go “OH GOD THE PLAN ISN’T WORKING BAILBAILBAIL” I absolutely despise.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 12, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Everybody would prefer to see:
YAY! CONTINUAL BLOWOUTS IN WHICH THE TEAM IS NEVER EVEN COMPETITIVE! PROGRESS AND PRODUCTION WHICH IS UNEVEN AT BEST FROM THE PLAYERS WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE OUR LONG-TERM CORNERSTONES
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 13, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
+1
This is year 1 of a plan that even MJ said would take 4 years before we saw perennial playoff/championship contenders…
YEAR 1 Folks!
Yeah, these losses suck…but…in 4 years we will have weathered the storm and will see the results
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jan 14, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
...unless we're continuing to weather the storm and the results are a 35-win team full of players with unrealized "potential."
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 14, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
This coming from the guy who still complains about Okafor being traded?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 14, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
For nothing but Carroll and Najera?
Yeah, horrific trade.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 14, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Cap room.
Which means everything to general managers and franchises going through ownership changes, but nothing to “fans” of teams who love to complain about every move made, just to…….complain.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 14, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
So you're admitting Jordan is running this thing on the cheap.
Well, that’s a start.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Well,
considering there is a such thing as a salary cap in the NBA, yes. If you take a look around the league, the team’s “not operating on the cheap” and not contending for championships are the ones that are royally screwed. IE, Pistons, Magic, Hawks, etc…….. That’s what we were a two years ago. Funny that you would complain about how we didn’t have cap room to add anyone then, but won’t do the same now.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
AYE CHO!!!
I got an idea that works for all parties involved…
LAC Get: Tyrus Thomas,CHI 2nd
CHA Get: TPE,DAL 1st
LAL Get: Mo Williams
This trade is perfect. LAC gets a player with a similar style as Jordan and Griffin. Plus Tyrus could benefit from this trade. He fits in Lob City…He doesnt fit in Cam City…
The Lakers finally get a PG that they can use. And Mo could very well get a ring before Lebron. He is everything Fisher was. And he’s also worked with coach Brown befire
We finally get a chance to clean up that mistake. And with Diaw coming off the books, we would almost add 8mil to whatever we had available in the offseason before. Of course we would have to find something to do with Diaw and Augustin. But who cares. that would be a minor problem being that they both are expirings anyway…Lets do it
Oh and Rich? Can I call u Rich, sure I can. Just create a psuedo name and get my contact info. We could turn this team around. I’ll be Jonah Hill. U be Brad Pitt. We got something…
No way the Clippers do that deal
Their biggest issue is finding someone who inside who is big and physical, able to defend and rebound. They already have enough guys who can only catch alley-oops.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
And at least theirs mostly stay healthy.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure how Tyrus Thomas would be attractive to the Clippers at all.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
That's the problem with most of your ideas.
They tend not to make much sense for all parties. It’s easy to say someone should do something, but without a whole lot of incentive for everyone involved, there is no reason to do such things.
When you’re able to learn this, maybe people won’t be so hasty to disregard what you have to say.
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by Panthers FTW on Jan 12, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
We bout to make it happen
Diaw or Thomas to LAC…
deadline coming up...I love this stuff
Lakers Receive:
DJ Augustin
Luis Scola (acquired with Odom TPE)
Jordan Hill
Matt Carroll
$9.8 million TPE
Lakers Trade:
Pau Gasol
Derrick Caracter
2012 Mavericks 1st
Lakers Depth:
Augustin / Blake / Morris
Bryant / Fisher / Goudelock / Carroll
Barnes / MWP / Ebanks
Scola / McRoberts / Murphy
Bynum / Hill / Murphy
Lakers Summary: The Lakers sacrifice Gasol for Scola to finally solve their PG problem. The Lakers also give up the Mavericks pick. Since this is a 4 for 2 and they already have 15 on the roster they also finally buy out Walton to free up one spot, while cutting one of the vets to free up the other. Some may argue that the value isn’t great, but I would argue that this deal is a steal. On our team Gasol is currently the 3rd option. As others have pointed out, as a third option playing alongside Bynum, Gasol>Scola, while if we were talking about as a 2nd option (and 1st post option) Gasol>>>Scola. Due to our long standing PG issues I think Augustin is more than worth the downgrade and giving up the Mavericks pick. This is about salary neutral for year 1, probably adds salary for next year, but frees up a decent amount of space (depending on Augustin’s extension) in the all important third year when the crazy lux tax hits.
Rockets Receive:
Pau Gasol
Derrick Caracter
Rockets Trade:
Luis Scola
Jordan Hill
Jonny Flynn
Hasheem Thabeet
2012 Knicks 1st
Rockets Summary: The Rockets were giving up a lot for Gasol in the failed deal(s), but everything indicates that they no longer have interest in deals like that, but since we know they like Gasol, I don’t see how they could turn this down. Gasol could start at PF with Dalembert at center, but Gasol would then log almost all of the reserve center minutes opening up playing time for Patterson. Best of all they keep Martin allowing them to compete now, but still have enough youth to build towards a bright future. I am pretty sure that this would still allow enough cap room to offer Howard a max deal. This deal may also give the Rockets the type of core that could vault Houston up to the most attractive destination.
Bobcats Receive:
Jonny Flynn
Hasheem Thabeet
2012 Knicks 1st
2012 Mavericks 1st
Bobcats Trade:
DJ Augustin
Matt Carroll
Bobcats Summary: Flynn can start until Walker is ready, then be a solid reserve. For the downgrade they pick up 2 1st rounders. I can’t see them wanting to sign Augustin to an extension with Walker around, so they cash him in for multiple assets. Also move the useless Carroll, for the hopefully useful Thabeet.
Or just take
Flynn out and add TWILL… Flynn has more trade value though
Wow.
That would be an absolute coup for us. However, I see no way, realistically we could get that much for DJ. Considering this was almost esstentially the package for Chris Paul, I just can’t see it occuring.
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by Panthers FTW on Jan 13, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
We arent getting alot…We are actually being used to dump Salary…Thabeet and Flynn. But the Rockets get their man…the Lakers really just get a player exception and 2 PFs that make up for Gasol. The Rockets are the real winners…but we do get a backup big guard and a backup Center…
Why do we want Thabeet?
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jan 14, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
For the same reasons we want Biyombo!
He’s tall, he has long arms, and he is great at defense and rebounding. Screw his actual performance, which belies any of those abilities.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 14, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
5 blocks.
Yeah, let’s just say screw his performance for the hell of it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 14, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
He can do ONE THING!
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 14, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
And can't rebound?
And that ONE THING that he can do is one of the hardest things to do in basketball. What other stats do you want him to fill up? Does he also have to average 6 steals, 9 assists, and 30 points? Cut it out clown. You’ve made it obvious that you really don’t know basketball. You’re talking to a ball player. If you did know the sport, you would know that in a gym playing pickup ball or with a coach picking the top players for his college teams, long players who can protect the paint, block shots, and rebound are EXTREMELY valuable to the outcome of a game. It’s not all about how fancy the stat line is looking. Ask Ben Wallace about that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 14, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
If you had a player who could do one thing extremely well
I would imagine you would pick that thing to be blocks. Everything else can be taught. Shooting can improve with enough repetition. Rebounding is mostly form, the rest knowledge (and he’s a very intelligent young man, so he’ll get the knowledge). He’s already demonstrated great roaming on defense skills.
Really, the sky is the limit. In a couple of years I expect this kid will be at least contending for DPOY honors and be giving us 8-10 ppg.
by Tim Rudisill on Jan 14, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
Of the ten top shot-blockers in NCAA history, only one went on to have an NBA career of any note.
So it doesn’t exactly translate.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
You're right.
In fact, it’s not even relevant considering Bismack never played in the NCAA.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
From a player perspective,
blocking shots is absolutely the most difficult thing to do. I see the same projections for him as you do bud. A potential DPOY for the 7th pick in a weak draft? Absolute steal.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Too bad
Alot of the players taken after him are better. Kemba, Knight, Leonard, Brooks, Markeiff Morris ect… And you said it right. Every thing thats said about BB is “Potential or Celing”…thats not enough in my book. Thats maybe 1/4th of a players worth in my book. Can he score? Can he rebound? Can he shoot? Not “will he one day be able to crap..”. We need to start taking into consideration what a player CAN DO NOW. The only think BB has proved he can do is block shots. Its no reason at all why Kemba avg more rebounds than HIM…NO REASON AT ALL…
Haven't we always been taking into
consideration what players can do now? Other than Ajincia, we’ve NEVER taken a project player so stop acting like we’ve been doing this for years. Okafor, Raymond Felton, Sean May, DJ Augustin, Hendo, trades that brought in Radmonovic, Jackson, Chandler, Jason Richardson, Raja Bell, Boris, and so forth were all about what we KNEW players were capable of and you see how it’s all turned out? Can he score? He’s nowhere near as bad as you’re making him out to be. I’ve said quite a few times during games that Biyombo doesn’t look that bad offensively and even has a little ‘move’ he can use. Why don’t you dispute that then? Can he rebound? Why are you so convinced he can’t? Can he shoot? Can any other than Mullens shoot? And the reason Kemba averages more rebounds is because he’s on the floor damn near 3 times the amount Biyombo is. That’s ridiculous for you to try to use that as an argument.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I do love how the same people who criticized us for taking the "safe" picks
Now criticize us for NOT taking the safe picks. Look it’s not an exact science. You can succeed or fail either way.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Precisely.
Several factors come into play. Injuries, work habits, team philosophy, all kind of things.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I never criticized for taking the safe pick
Its not like we ever do it really. Felton was our only safe pick. Ajinca was a project. Dumb pick but I could live with it bc he was taken a lil later. You dont get “three year projects” with a number 7 pick…
Felton was the only safe pick?
Define safe pick. And why do you still fail to take into account the fact Biyombo is younger than the rest of these guys? When you base your argument so much off of “production now” then it’s hard to argue because no one ever expected immediate big time production from him do it really doesn’t help your case at all.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would take ten points and six or eight rebounds.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
So you would take
DJ White with the 7th pick in the draft? Hmmmm…….
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
If he gave us the numbers he is giving us now
Yes. I would def take a rookie giving us close to a double double over 1.3bpg and 3rebs…
2nd in the league in BPG48.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
per48
no one plays 48 minutes…what happened to per36. And all these other unrealistic stats?
Per 48
Is not endorsing we play a player 48 minutes. It levels the field so that numbers aren’t skewed by playing time. It’s a measure of the rate at which a player does something.
It’s like using yards per attempt as opposed to yards per game in football.
Or why in baseball ERA is used as opposed to how many runs they give up per outing.
Unrealistic?
There is nothing unrealistic about it. I know you struggle with math, but it’s simple………per minutes played, Biyombo is 2nd in blocked shots. Which translates into if he was getting more minutes, he would have a very high chance of averaging over the 1.3 blocks that he averages now. It doesn’t make a difference if it’s 48, 36, 24, or 5, Biyombo is still second in the league in blocks per minute played no matter which way you slice it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 16, 2012 9:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If I can see into the future...
I would have let Tyrus walk…
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jan 16, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
If I was a GM
he wouldve never got that deal in the first place…
If you were a GM
Your team would be full of “proven” players, several of which have character issues or don’t play defense, and the average age of the team would be 30.
lolololol
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by Panthers FTW on Jan 16, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Def not 30...
Every player that I recommend is under 26. And no player that I have ever named other than Thornton is a liability on defense and even he isnt a liability. (Wondering did P FTW really laff out loud out loud out loud out loud)
Because
when you make deals, you dont just get what you want. Most of the time you have to take something back. But you get 2 First rd picks and Johnny Flynn…And BB or Thabeet can be used as trade chips…
ok
Thanks
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jan 14, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Deadline's not for almost two months.
3/15.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 13, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
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