Bobcats Fall to Houston Rockets In Frustrating 82-70 Loss
by Connor Huchton on Jan 10, 2012 10:47 PM EST
Email
Print
In a game dominated by defensive plays and missed jump shots, the Bobcats lost to the Rockets, defeated by an 82-70 score. The Bobcats struggled to generate any offensive flow throughout the game, leading to long stretches with little to no scoring. Despite playing relatively close to an expectedly decent team for much of the game, the loss is as discouraging as any the Bobcats have faced during the young season. More on what ailed the Bobcats' tonight and player comments after the jump.
General Thoughts
This was the worst performance I've seen from the Bobcats thus far this season. On a night when two of the Rockets' three best players (Kevin Martin and Luis Scola) turned in very poor games and the third, Kyle Lowry, played below average by his standards, the Bobcats failed to take advantage. It's an understood point that the Bobcats are going to lose most of their games, and that's perfectly acceptable. They're a rebuilding team. However, that doesn't mean progress and quality play can't be pursued. Tonight, the Bobcats were completely stagnant as a unit, without energy, direction, or a general understanding of how to attack a Rockets' defense that's been frequently abysmal to open the season.
Two things particularly bothered me about tonight's game: the Bobcats' virtually nonexistent offensive movement and inability to take advantage of weak interior defense. The first problem mentioned was a huge issue Tuesday night, as many Bobcats' possessions ended in mostly unsuccessful Boris Diaw, Kemba Walker, or D.J. Augustin forced iso sets. These rarely worked and created few open looks for the Bobcats. The second problem, that of little interior post-ups or penetration, has been a frequent one for the team. This problem is twofold, partly due to a lack of big men able to succeed in post-up opportunities and guards that have failed to make the necessary passes. Besides Byron Mullens's quality night, the Bobcats were unable to find many open looks inside the interior, a critical failure against a team like the Rockets.
In any case, the Bobcats' loss isn't the central problem. The primary issue lies in the team's inability to show offensive improvements or develop players through quality possessions. Players can learn and improve more easily through legitimate offensive movement, and the Bobcats failed greatly in that aspect tonight. I'm fairly confident that'll differ in a positive way as the season continues, but this game was not one to remember.
Player Grades
D.J. Augustin: Augustin struggled to find other open Bobcats all night, providing only three assists in 29 minutes. He also struggled to score (4-13 FG, 11 points), and looked generally out of sync. Grade: C-
Gerald Henderson: Though Henderson didn't have a particularly efficient night (6-14 FG, 12 points), he seemed to be one of the few Bobcats able to create an open look for themselves. In a game like this, that was enough to earn a mediocre grade. Grade: C+
Derrick Brown: Brown played acceptable defense on Chase Budinger and scored six points (3-6 FG). His effect was relatively neutral, so there's not much to add. Grade: B
Boris Diaw: This was the worst game of Diaw's season, as he scored only four points on 2-14 shooting. It's difficult not to wince at that line. His eight rebounds weren't enough to make up for such putrid shooting, though his continued determination to shoot and miss shots can be partly blamed on the Bobcats' lack of offensive movement. Still, this was a thoroughly terrible game from Diaw. Grade: F
DeSagana Diop: Diop played only 13 minutes and was ineffective in pretty much all of them. One rebound and three turnovers indicate his performance pretty accurately. Grade: D
Matt Carroll: Not a great night for Carroll (four points on 2-6 FG in 17 minutes), but the same could be said for almost every Bobcat. Grade: C
D.J. White: The usually efficient White shot only 4-10 from the field for nine points, but managed to provide six rebounds in 26 minutes. A mediocre night, I'd say, and a below-average game from him. Grade: C+
Byron Mullens: Mullens was the lone bright spot for the Bobcats on Tuesday night, providing 15 points (5-11 FG) and a sterling (especially for Mullens) 10 rebounds in 26 minutes. Mullens continues to both play well and garner deserved, significant minutes. Grade: A- (Note: This grade was given mostly for his unexpected rebounding.)
Kemba Walker: Not a particularly good game from Walker, as the perimeter defense of Kyle Lowry and others bothered him and Augustin throughout the night. Eight rebounds in 31 minutes is good, but only three assists and three turnovers isn't. Grade: C
Bismack Biyombo: Biyombo played only ten minutes and provided little (two rebounds, 0-1 FG), good or bad. He still seems to only have one primary post move (a simple hook shot), but that will change with time. Grade: C+
387 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I understand you want to keep the optimists in the crowd happy...
But calling a team that is 2-6 (particularly one with two of its best players slowed by illness and injury) against anybody but the Bobcats “expectedly decent” seems a bit disingenuous.
I will also note (as you did) that this team simply doesn’t have the personnel to take advantage of a poor interior defending team. Who are we supposed to post up? White? Sorry, but he’s not scaring anybody on the block, even if he’s exceeded expectations. Inefficient though it may be, I’ll trust Augustin or Walker with the ball more than any of our post players (presuming Walker isn’t trying to beat the entire other team with no support from his teammates whatsoever.)
Hard to credit Brown for his effort against Budinger when he was also mostly responsible for the best game of Chandler Parsons’ (Right? Who?) career.
I also have a hard time just assuming Biyombo will improve just because. Wasn’t that said of Kwame Brown? Alexis Ajinca? Ryan Hollins? I mean, the possibility certainly exists that he is what he is: a raw player who will never understand the advanced concepts required of being a high-caliber all-around NBA player and justifying his selection at #7 (and the trade of Stephen Jackson/Livingston to get there.)
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 10, 2012 11:31 PM EST reply actions
Yes it is a possibility BB will never be that great
But do you really think that being a Ben Wallace player is that out of reach? The dude has potential and so does Kemba you have to support them.
Two things:
1) I fully expect the Rockets to be a decent team. Their current record isn’t indicative of the season they’ll likely have.
2) I mentioned that part of the problem is the lack of personnel to take advantage of poor interior defense. It’s in the same paragraph.
I need no signature. My twitter name is @ConnorHuchton, if you're into that kind of thing.
by Connor Huchton on Jan 11, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I do.
He’s got tons to learn in every aspect of the game. The more distance there is between your present ability and your theoretical potential, the less likely he is to get there. That’s reasonable, no?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 3:46 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah.
But it’s also easy to tell that you’ve shut out all possibility of him becoming a great player rendering your point moot. Everyone else recognizes the potential for him being a bust as well, but we also see how good he can be.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, just saw that you noticed I mentioned the second thing.
In any case, my assumption that Biyombo can and will develop is my opinion, and one that I think is plausible.
I need no signature. My twitter name is @ConnorHuchton, if you're into that kind of thing.
by Connor Huchton on Jan 11, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Ugh.
Your love affair with Stephen Jackson is disgusting.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
It's hardly a love affair.
But we could have traded him for something that had some actual value, not theoretical, long-term “potential” that we may or may not see.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
To say that we traded Stephen Jackson for Biyombo is disingenuous
We traded Stephen Jackson, Livingston, and a later pick for Maggette and the number 7 pick.
Maggette’s value on offense is essentially equal to Jackson’s (both scorers who can put up 20 any given night but they stifle the ball movement) Livingston is a solid player, but hardly more than a 7th or 8th man on a contender (i.e. he’s hardly a player of consequence for a rebuilding team). We essentially traded equal value players for a chance to move up several spots in the draft. You may not have liked the pick. I don’t agree with you there, but disagreements happen. You have to at least admit that this was one hell of a trade.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
But Maggette, unlike Jackson, has neither been healthy enough to produce nor even play starter’s minutes frequently in the last two years, whereas Jackson has started and produced over that period of time. Shaun Livingston is exactly the kind of player we need right now to give us the options simply stay competitive in games. He was excellent last year playing alongside Augustin, because the two (unlike Augustin and Walker) actually complimented each other’s skillsets and playing styles. The move up in the draft (regardless of who we would have gotten) was largely irrelevant, too. This year’s draft was widely viewed as a poor one with little difference between pick seven and seventeen. Why trade up in this crappy draft? Why not wait until next year, when a three to five spot jump would have made more of an impact than trading up ten spots in this year’s?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson ended the last season with a pretty nasty hamstring injury
and a host of game killing technical fouls. He’s actually a less efficient scorer than Maggette and he was kicked out of the season opener. I believe that you may be overvaluing Jackson just because you’re not happy with the Biyombo pick.
I don’t say this as an insult to Livingston, but I can’t believe that he adds more than 2-3 wins to this season.
Both Jackson and Livingston are playing serious minutes for the Bucks this season. Neither have an even average PER. Jackson is shooting .375% overall and .304% from 3 point range. He’s taking 5 3’s a game. His got a negative A/T ratio. Livingston is has 6 points and 3 assists per game. Why are you bemoaning this trade?
This draft was widely seen as a mediocre crop of talent, but you can’t say that there’s no value in moving up several spots in any draft. Biyombo was going to be gone after the Piston’s selection at number 8. Cho wanted Biyombo. He gave up practically nothing to move up and get him.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
It's just a classic case of "I hate everything the Bobcats do".
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
it was just a terrible move in my opinion also. Classic case of numbers dont always tell the whole story. Sure Maggs and Jax have equal stats on paper. But the way that they get those stats makes JAX far more superior and valuable. Jax shooting ability is miles ahead of Maggs. And his ability to put the team on his back is another trait not possessed by Maggs. And Livingston and Jax is of way more value than Maggs and BB…
Classic case of "my opinion is more valuable than objective data"
I agree with you that Jackson is an overall more valuable player than Maggette. I do not agree that he’s so much more valuable that we should feel bad about the trade in question.
You’re right in saying that Jackson can put a team on his shoulders and dominate a game. But you fail to point out that he often times will carry a team to a loss by taking horrible 3s early in the shot clock, taking on useless techs, and refusing to get back on defense every time he misses a shot. Jackson has a lot of heart, but his style of play can kill a team just as easily as it can lift it up.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
And he also fails to point out that Jax
is an alpha male, technical foul machine, influential player that WANTED AN EXTENSION. No rebuilding squad needs a player on the last legs of their career taking all the shots on the team while all of our developing players are standing around watching.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
What you dont mention
Is no one cares if he wanted an extenstion. He cant make anyone give him an extension. Right or wrong. So who cares about that. He has to play bc he def wont get a contract if he refuses to play. JAX has alot more trade value than Maggs and BB put together at this point. Didnt DJ avg like14 and 6 last season? Jax is a blackhole but we just couldve got ALOT more than what we did..
by focuslja on Jan 11, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, sure, no one cares that he wants an extension.
That’s absolutely nothing for the front office to worry about. Keeping the morale of a headcase like Jackson high has never been a priority right? Tell that to Golden State. I’m still trying to figure out exactly WHAT THE HELL trade value you think Jax has because it is NOT HIGH AT ALL no matter what your hate shades tell you. The man was coming off a hamstring injury, in his mid 30’s, and is a technical foul machine. Not only that, but he’s inefficient as shit. You’re lying to yourself talking about how high his value is.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
As opposed to Maggette...
who’s just as expensive, a whopping ONE year younger, who’s actually been in the league for one MORE year, who wasn’t even healthy enough to start regularly or play more than 21 minutes a game for a 35-win team while dealing with knee, back, hand, ankle, AND foot injuries as well as a concussion, and who has already missed time with injuries to both his back and his hamstring. OK, got it. Makes perfect sense.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
As opposed to Maggette,
who can give just as much production as Jackson without the technical fouls and, here’s the key part, WAS JUST A THROW IN TO MAKE THE SALARIES WORK. And if you want to complain about Maggette getting hurt playing basketball then that’s on you. But his injury right now has nothing at all to do with any that he suffered in the past. Yeah, it does make perfect sense. All these complaining and you still haven’t come up with a realistic and better trade package for Jackson.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Sure I can.
How about a draft pick? How about a young, established NBA player who’s already seen time in the league and has some upside? Hell, how about some of that mythical cap space?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Who Michael?
WHO?? Who will trade someone like that for Stephen Jackson. Please!!! I’m dying to know!
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Minny
Beasley…Martel Webster…Pekovic…Wes Johnson…witht the way that Jax is playing, they wouldve gladly too Jax for one of those guys and Pekovic.
Tne Wiz. The Spurs. Its a couple of teams that wouldve let a big contract and a young player go with the way Jax is playing.
What makes you think Minnesota would've
been so willing to give up a those guys for Jackson other than your own speculation. The Wiz? The rebuilding Wiz? Really? The Spurs? We didn’t want a big contract, that was the point.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Who cares if he wanted an extension?
He can’t sign unilaterally, and he can’t do anything but play under his current contract unless he wants to retire. And, do tell, if “no rebuilding squad needs a player on the last legs of their career taking all the shots on the team while all of our developing players are standing around watching,” then how do you justify the acquisition of Maggette? Did they KNOW he’d be hurt and plan on paying him eight figures to sit on the bench in a suit?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
You keep talking about Jax' contract,
you like to point that part out when you say “he has no choice but to play”. Why don’t you talk about his age? Or the techs? Or the fact that we are rebuilding period? And is Maggette not YOUNGER than Jackson? And do you think Maggette will retire a Bobcat? Your debates get weaker and weaker by the day.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Are you really claiming Maggette's ONE YEAR of added youth is an advantage.
Haha.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, actually it is.
But it’s reality so I don’t expect you to agree.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Its not tho dude
Anthony Parker is older than them both. But he has less NBA wear on his body. Maggette was coming off a damn near season long injury. Jax was just dinged up from playing too many minutes. Who cares about the techs? Most of the posters WANT to LOSE anyway. And what rule in rebuilding says TRADE a player for a more expensive less productive one?
Who cares about the techs?
How about the fans that get tired of it? How about the fans that get tired of the shitty effort on defense because he’s not happy with the refs. How about the damn front office? Why would anyone want a player leading the league in technical fouls as their best player? And what rule says that? The one that says IF YOU CAN MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT for the shit then do it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
WE ARE REBUILDING.
Which means Livingston and Jax don’t mean jack shit to us. You and Michael are crying over how we’re missing Jax this year but not thinking about the long term again. You can’t stop doing that for some reason. Bismack Biyombo’s value >Maggs, Jax, AND Livingston when it comes to rebuilding. Remember that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
That's totally wrong.
There is not a team in the league right now that would trade a top-ten pick for Biyombo. Because he’s a big, fat question mark. He might be as good now as he’s ever going to be. That is no less likely than the possibility that he’ll become the greatest player in NBA history, as others have thrown around.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
And there isn't a team in the league that will trade
a top 10 pick for Jackson, Livingston, AND Maggette combined so exactly what are you getting at? Again, if you can only talk about how Bismack is destined to fail then save it. Most of us can see the kid’s potential and rapid improvement over the past few weeks.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Like I have said over and over
The move to get the 7th pick was crafty. The result was crappy. We traded an 18ppg player to pick a player that will probably score his first double figure game next season. And a player that cant shoot that avg 12ppg last season. Jax is worth way more than that…
Still only thinking about the short term results for Biyombo.
When the man turns into a damn beast you’ll be back to looking stupid once again. Damn. You were just on his nuts the other night? What happened so quickly? Oh, I know. Whine and cheese.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
And what will you look like when he's still a 4-5-2 player in three years?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
What will you look like when he's a
10, 12, and 5 player in three years?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Trading one of your few assets for a garbage return is not thinking about the long term.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
You're the only person that considers Jackson an asset.
And you’re the only one that considers moving up a dozen spots in the draft garbage.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Moving up wasnt garbage
but what we did with the pick sucks. BB is cool but he def isnt worth a top 20 pick. And you can rant all you want to about other teams was gonna pick him up but noone did and those were just rumors. Jax was worth more to us than what we got for him. Jus think about it. We wouldve still got Kemba at 9. And couldve still got Brooks and a slew of other players.
Detroit was going to pick him up.
Fact. Houston was going to pick him up. Fact. You’re ignoring the fact that we are REBUILDING! Meaning, there is just no room for a damn alpha male. Neither Jax NOR MAGGETTE would’ve had a long term role in Charlotte so you may as well make the best of the deal.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
And his ability to be PLAYING right now is pretty relevant, too.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because Jackson is never hurt.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
In the last four years, Maggette has played in 194 games, coming off the bench in a whopping 102 of them. Jackson’s played in 216 (starting every one.) Those gaps will only increase as Maggette continues to sit.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Maggette isn't even a part of the future here
so stop talking about him please. I don’t give a damn if he doesn’t play another game in Charlotte. Is purpose has already been served. He can be amnestied for all I care.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
And what is that purpose?
To provide us little to no production at a high price? I thought we already had Diop for that. But I guess that just goes to show how good this front office is.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, Maggette was giving production when he was playing.
It’s funny, I don’t remember you being so in love witih Jackson last year. Wonder why. Don’t think him being a Bobcat had anything to do with it?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
He was what he was.
Flawed, but worth a hell of a lot better return than a tradeup in a shitty draft.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
According to who?
Michael Procton? And not general manager’s across the NBA? Ok. It all makes sense now.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think I had a brief seizure looking at that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Lmao. You know it's coming.
I’ve already braced myself for it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Mean? Oh, NOW I get the problem!
Your feelings are hurt. You should have warned me! I didn’t know I had to take your sensitivity into account.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno
Seems like, while Jack has the name and “skills” the likelyhood of moving him for these great pieces you wanted is probably fairy-tale dreaming. When u really look at it, he’s an older player who had been struggling with some injurys, has a air of “team cancer” and was insisting on added 3 or more years to his already expensive contract??? Seems to me like we actually got about the best we could. I understand the frustration of losing Liv. I liked him too. But the idea that having Liv on this current team would solve our problems and make us good….is silly. Liv would be passing to the same guys DJ and Kemba are supposed to be “diming” to. Just saying, i think you are weighing Mr. Jack’s value quite too high!! Im happy hes not a headache we are dealing with while trying to grow this year!!
by mives36 on Jan 11, 2012 12:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Umm...
players can’t “insist” on anything when it comes to their contract. Short of retiring, he had no choice but to play under his current deal.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Players can't punch fans either...
Jack does. Of course they can’t technically insist on a new deal while under contract…u are stroking yourself if you won’t admit a player (especially one like Jack) can become a severe minus to a team while being stinky/holding out. I get your point, but u are turning a blind-eye.
by mives36 on Jan 11, 2012 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you have any proof that happened?
I would say his desire to play through his severe injury at the end of last year while the team wanted to lose games speaks to the opposite. Hypotheticals don’t interest me.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
And did you see what happened when he tried to play?
Of course not, you don’t watch the games. I’ll give you a play by play though………DJ brings the ball up the court, DJ passes the ball to Jackson, Jackson (hobbled) does his signature pump fakes and takes a contested 3 pointer, Jackson hobbles down court arguing with the referee the entire way, Jackson is called for a technical, Jackson is briefly benched, repeat process every 2 quarters.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Funny, I didn't see any stretch where he was ejected from consecutive games, much less for the kind of stretch you describe.
But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your argument.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
But hey,
ignore everything else in my statement.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
1-866-TROLLS
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of which....
I don’t know if any of you have Key Bank, but if you’re trying to call them, their number 1-800-Key-2You. I always used to mess it up and call 1-800-Key-4You. I suggest all members try it out and see why I don’t make this mistake anymore…unintentionally that is (jk…or am i?)
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Trying it NOW.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Lol. I may call back...........another time.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
hahahaha
seriously, key bank should change it to not be so close. when i first got key bank i screwed it up all the time. made for some awkward moments when my gf was in the room lol.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
In his defense
JAX is still playing great basketball right now. He is also avg’ing more points than BB and Maggs combined (which is basically what he was traded for)…now Im not saying we shouldntve traded JAX. But what Im saying that right about now we couldve used him. Not only for wins but his trade value is waaaayyyy higher than ANYONE on our team except DJ. And more teams need a scoring wing like JAX than an undersized PG…
by focuslja on Jan 11, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you look past total points per game, how can you say that Jackson is playing great basketball?
His scoring is mediocre for a long time starting wing.
His percentages are in the toilet. He’s scoring o.k. because he’s taking a ton of shots. Attempting five 3’s per game and hitting only .304 is not great basketball. More turnovers than assists does not represent great basketball.
I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment of Jackson’s season thus far. His game is in the crapper.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson's scoring is not mediocre
its actually above avg. So is his leadership. He rebounds ok. And he’s avg about 4 asst for his career. Again what he did last year was different. Because he had a different role. Augustin was timid. Hendo sucked. Wallace was hurt. Tyrus was hurt. Cunningham and White were new (and Cunningham sucked)…so of course he had to take shots…
We're talking about what he's doing this season.
15 points per game is mediocre for a long time starter who’s primary value is scoring. I didn’t say it’s mediocre for every player in the league.
He averages 3.3 assist per game for his career. He average 2.6 turnovers per game. Regardless, we’re talking about this season. He’s turning the ball over more often than he’s dishing assists this season. Guess what? That’s a bad thing.
Tell me after looking objectively at what he’s doing that Jackson is playing “great basketball” right now.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
He's a former Bobcat who was dealt
away in a deal to acquire a player they don’t approve of so of course Jackson is playing better.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Are you serious
You think he isnt playing well? He is playing extremely well. I mean of course to leave it to RoF posters to take the word “GREAT” and use the Webster definition to try to prove me wrong. But he is playing good basketball. Look at his game log. That turnover stat is weak. You telling me that the primary scorer for a team cant turn the ball over twice? Ok. Actually he avgs 3asst this season. He just scored 34 the last game they played. Again Jax is playing very good basketball and is way more productive than BB and Maggs combined at this point. And he’s older and CHEAPER…
34 the last game they played,
almost DOUBLE his previous season high.
He’s older, THE PRIMARY REASON WE DON’T NEED HIM.
Cheaper? How? The trade was Jackson AND Livingston for Maggette and the rights to Bismack.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
We took on salary to make that trade.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Salary that would've been better served.............................................
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Paying SOMEBODY who could produce.
Or somebody who (yes, unlike Maggette) just might factor into our future. Or, hell, going towards the salary of a superior player or players (like, say, the combination of Jackson and Livingston.)
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Jesus,
can you just give me ONE name Michael? Just ONE to validate your bitching?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
You're trolling again. Lol.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
No one does these days.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hell, we could have kept one of the training camp guys.
Taylor Griffin, Durrell Summers? Match the sheet for Cunningham? Again, anybody who would be producing more than Maggette is and will have for much of the first half of the season.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
You're
arguing about keeping the likes of Taylor Griffin and Durrell Summers over Corey Maggette and accusing our front office of being inept? You may have finally silenced yourself forever Michael.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson has one good game
and you use that to say he’s playing “well” this season. Great, well, good, whatever you want to use, the numbers don’t lie.
That one 34 point game actually is the sole reason that his per game scoring average is even respectable. He was scoring a mere 12.6 ppg prior.
I agree with you that having more turnovers than assists is weak. It’s a sign of really weak playmaking skills. Jackson has 3.8 turnovers per game this season, by the way. That is a bad number for any player. At least get the facts right.
You’re still ignoring the awful shooting percentages. Look at the facts again, you’ve already downgraded his play from “great” to “well.” Maybe if you look at more evidence you’ll start to get closer to a realistic assessment of his performance.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Except for this time
The grass actually died as soon as Jackson bitched about being traded away because he thought he was going to lead the Bobcats to the playoffs.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Are you implying that Stephen Jackson is ugly?
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
that should read
“ballholder”
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Jan 11, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
lol...that smirk on his face just screams:
You know you’re not getting this ball back, right?
"People are gonna respect the Panthers, and I want what I do as a quarterback to be scary. I want people to be in fear. I want it, and I’m gonna get it."
- Carolina Panthers Franchise Quarterback
Looks like an evil monster to me.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Are you serious
He is avg 16ppg. One good game? Stop it. Have you looked at his game log. Looks just like he gonna AGAIN score 18ppg. And the Bucks will make the playoffs. And YOU are the one who said he avg 2.6 turnovers per game. Really? How can you tell me to get my facts right when you said…“He average 2.6 turnovers per game.”
16 ppg?
Lmao. Now that’s epic in your book. When Henderson is putting up those kind of numbers it’s worthless. And the Bucks will NOT make the playoffs. Miami, Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, Orlando, Indiana, Philly, New York. Stop it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
We're talking career numbers vs. this season
It wouldn’t hurt to just look up the stats yourself. It’s really easy to do.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 12, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Great basketball?
When?!!!!
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Is it OK if we just give Diop's minutes to Biyombo?
Can we all agree that whatever ceiling Biyombo has, no matter how close to it he may or not already be, it is higher than Diop’s?
Five of Diaw’s ten games as our starter (31 mpg!) have resulted in less than 10 total points, including a fat goose egg. Twice, he barely hit double digits, scoring exactly 10 points. This is his contract year. He leads the team in rebounds, 7.1 a game. He leads the team in turnovers, 2.8 per game. He has attempted two free throws so far, making one of them…I’m not really sure where I’m even going with all of this…did I mention this is his contract year?
Nice double double by Mullens. Hendo is trying more often to create his own shots, so it’s encouraging (to me) to see him continue to work on the weaker parts of his game. Both of our point guards were rather bleh tonight. Washington finally won a game tonight, so we won’t have that albatross hanging around our neck on the 25th. Matt Carroll is almost out of the red in terms of PER; he’s right at -0.5 currently This is my silver lining paragraph.
"People are gonna respect the Panthers, and I want what I do as a quarterback to be scary. I want people to be in fear. I want it, and I’m gonna get it."
- Carolina Panthers Franchise Quarterback
Lol, I was scared Washington would still be winless by time we played them.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
See Nets, New Jersey.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Did Stephen Jackson play in that game?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yep: 28 pts, 4 rbs, 2 ast, 2 stls, 1 blk
Four of our starters were in double figures that night. Would you care to take a stab at the one starter who failed to score ten or more points?
"People are gonna respect the Panthers, and I want what I do as a quarterback to be scary. I want people to be in fear. I want it, and I’m gonna get it."
- Carolina Panthers Franchise Quarterback
DOMINIC MCGUIRE?!
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff Mcinnis?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Brevin?
Don’t tell me it was Brevin!
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Flip Murray.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
it's actually entertaining to watch the entire game on gamechannel on yahoo sports
you’ll see under recent plays:
diaw misses 21ft fadeaway jumper
diaw misses 7ft hook shot
diaw misses 25ft 360 jumper
diaw misses 15ft no-look layup
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
by Shockers on Jan 11, 2012 1:11 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
i made the last two up..
no.. he probably attempted one of the two…
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
I watched the entire game...
and you had me fooled.
"People are gonna respect the Panthers, and I want what I do as a quarterback to be scary. I want people to be in fear. I want it, and I’m gonna get it."
- Carolina Panthers Franchise Quarterback
Loving what Mullens offers
His post moves tonight, while only twice, were fantastic. What a great pickup. And his rebounding is getting better. The effort is definitely there to improve. He’s just so productive when he’s on the court.
by drapht00 on Jan 11, 2012 1:31 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed.
Shrewd move by the front office, no matter who was behind it.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 3:46 AM EST up reply actions
Still don't think his trade value will ever be higher than the draft pick we traded to get him?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Players like him who can come in and put up decent numbers on a bad team where they attract no defensive attention are utterly replaceable.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Lol. Give me one replacement for Mullens right now.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
We could get similar production out of plenty of players.
Ian Mahinmi, playing for Dallas at the league minimum.
Nikola Vucevic, picked after Walker and Biyombo.
Jeff Foster, playing at $3 mil.
Brandon Bass, acquired for the rights to an unsigned player.
Markieff Morris, again picked after Walker and Biyombo.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Ian Mahinmi isn't giving that production,
neither is Vucevic. Jeff Foster? Lmao. Brandon Bass? Markief Morris? At a cheaper cost? Which is a 2nd round pick? Sorry. You’ll need to research more.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Right, because they're not on a team which is so bad they have to play them.
Further, every one is an improvement in both defense and rebounding.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Mullens> All of those clowns except for Brandon Bass (trade with Big Baby)
and Morris probably (rookie).
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
...says you.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, bud, but the amount of the US population that has even HEARD of Byron Mullens is closer to 1%.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHA.
LOLOLOOOLOLLLOLOLOLOL. I SEE IT NOW!
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I'm really proud of you Michael...
You’ve finally learned how to really respond to people…. Gifs and overstated sarcasm! Welcome to the Aisander D school of inane internet arguments
Here's one, too:
How’s his NBA career going?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
And who is there to oppose me?
You? Go figure. Besides, you’re bitching about Mullens now who cost us a 2nd round pick. Why exactly?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
This is NOT a rebuilding year
What exactly are they rebuilding? I mean, I thought rebuilding meant a bunch of rookies and first time NBA players with new coaches and new assistants trying to adjust to each other. The majority of players on this roster have played together on this team for at least two years, some even longer. The coach is not new, the staff is not new. They should know the routine by now.
But instead, we have a rag-tag group of sixth men with no identity, no leader, and no hope. One last thing, anyone notice the buddy ball thing Augustin and Diaw got going? Every time Augustin brings the ball up, he passes to Diaw. They pass back and forth to each other and either; A) Diaw misses a jumper or B) Augustin drives and misses a layup or C) they turn the ball over. lol
"You ain't supposed to be smiling and giggling after we lose. I've never had the mentality of losing in my whole life and for a person to tell me you can't win them all, that's a loser's mentality." - Cam Newton
Rebuilding isn't a 1 year thing
More like 3 years. Shedding bad contracts takes time. Drafting players takes time.
...particularly if you draft players who won't hit their theoretical "potential" for three to five years.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong.
It only applies to Bobcats.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
No sarcasm.
I am DEAD SERIOUS………………….
or am I?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
The Thunder are still waiting on Russell Westbrook to produce and the Timberwolves with Kevin Love and the Clippers with Blake Griffin. Give me a friggin’ break.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Were any of those players drafted lower than Biyombo?
You do need to take a break.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Gary Neal was first-team all rookie last year. Undrafted.
Landry Fields was, too. 39th pick.
Drew Bledsoe (18th) and Paul George (10th) were on the second-team. Do you think Biyombo will be one of the NBA’s ten best rookies by the end of the year?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Reggie Evans pulled down 6.6 rebounds a game his rookie year.
I somehow do not believe Biyombo will get there.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder why
ppl think Reggie Evans is terrible. I also wonder why ppl think that his comparison to BB has to be the WORST CASE? We’d be lucky to get that kinda production outta BB. EVER…
Not really.
He’d be averaging that now if he got the playing time.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
He'd be getting the playing time if he wasn't awful at basketball.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
The same reason Henderson wasn't getting playing time
over Stephen Graham right?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Totally different situation.
This is a coach who has proven a willingness to embrace and motivate young players. Henderson’s coach at the time has a 20-year track record of burying young, talented players on the bench in favor of inferior veterans.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Point is playing time doesn't = talent.
There is nothing else you need to take from that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
It absolutely does when you have a youth-friendly coach who knows his team isn't trying to win right now.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Worst case. Ha.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
No.
They’ve always been impressed at how I can articulate my position in an argument rather than resorting to ad hominems because I don’t have much to substantiate my beliefs.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Cool English.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
In fairness, he does articulate his negativity rather well.
If bashing the Bobcats and Panthers doesn’t work out for him, MP can always make a career out of badmouthing whichever political party is in power.
by Tim Rudisill on Jan 11, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
There's always something he's running his yaps about.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Lmfao.
That’s funny as shit. You’ve left so many statements you had no clear argument against unresponsive that it’s ridiculous.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'm waiting for a response to mine
Calling him out for using the same argument he used in favor of Augustin against Kemba.
You will NEVER receive it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
And several others that he seemed to run into
a brick wall with. Lol.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
He never says anything
To me calling him out for rec’d every negative comment and post about Kemba and every other thing iv told him in posts below this one
He'll be back in 2 months
to avenge himself briefly.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
What was your worst case on Darko, do tell.
Or, say, Sean May. Or Alexis Ajinca.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Let's ignore every success story in the pursuit
of convincing everyone Biyombo sucks why don’t we? Oh, you’re already on it? Well done Michael. Well done.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
As opposed to simply accepting the success stories of the greatest players the league has ever known in the pursuit
of convincing yourself Biyombo is good in spite of his minimal production in his now three-plus years of professional basketball. Oh, you’re already on it? Well done CB. Well done.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
I've seen enough blocks in limited
playing time this year to see that the kid has major potential. For someone who has never picked up a basketball though, I understand why seeing someone not score 50 points can make you think they suck.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
WHY THE HELL DO YOU CARE ABOUT THE END OF THE YEAR?
Will he be better than all of them in 2 or 3 years? I’m sure of it. That’s what I’m worried about. You’re proven you can’t think past this year so it’s not even worth discussing. Still bitching over not having Jackson during a REBUILDING year? Goodness gracious.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Because if he's not any better any sooner than that, he'll be playing for another team.
Why would the team pay to extend his deal and continute chasing the dream of his “potential?”
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
If he's getting BETTER,
which he has been doing then why would the team give up on him?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
That is a poor comparison.
Everyone and their momma knew Andrew Bynum would be considered the 2nd best center in the NBA 5 years after he was drafted. C’mon.
I’m sorry if I wasn’t sarcastic enough.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Bynum averaged 8 and 8 as a rookie, at a younger age than Biyombo, with no professional experience at all (compared to Biyombo's three years.)
What similar potential has Biyombo showed?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
Biyomboa and Bynum are not the same player at all
Biyombo is a defender and Bynum is a scorer. Nice try for you though.
LOL, I wasn't trying to compare the two as players, moreso are raw rookies
He IS another good example of a raw talent upon entering the league.
I heard rebounding was a part of defense.
But Biyombo’s not very far along with that, huh? Maybe he’ll be the first closer in the history of the NBA! We’ll reserve him for situations where the other team has the clock running out and needs two points. Biyombo will then stand under the basket with his arms held high and do the only thing he does on a basketball court at an NBA level: get in the way!
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Biyombo has been in the NBA three years?
Damn. That’s crazy. I thought he was a rookie.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
He has been a pro for 3 yrs apparently
Again I like BB…but MP is right. BB was a bad choice at 7 no matter how you slice it. He needs to be sent to the d-league so he can develop…
He's a bad choice because he has more
learning to do then the rest of the draft class? Why do you guys keep talking about what he can do THIS YEAR. He’s obviously at his rawest. If you fail to be able to even fathom thinking about the dominant player he could become because you see a couple of rookies putting up 10 or 15 points a game now then I’m sorry but that’s extremely short sighted. You keep thinking we have all this room for people like Marshon Brooks to come in and flourish now. How? We got Kemba, DJ, Henderson, Williams, and Maggette. I mean sure he would’ve been a nice scoring punch, but it’s not about what the player could do THIS YEAR. Bismack has a chance to be a phenomenal monster in the paint while Marshon Brooks is already another Jamal Crawford. Jamal Crawford isn’t going to push us to the playoffs or in position to win a title anytime soon either.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Darko had a lot of learning to do before he was inevitably going to be one of the best players in the NBA.
Oh, whoops. How is it that Biyombo, who is and has never shown any actual production in several years of professional basketball, is simply guaranteed to be a dominant player, whereas any player who IS producing now is as good as they will ever be? Kemba Walker is exactly like Brooks in his scoring skillset, yet he’s not even Jamal Crawford.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Who the hell said he was guaranteed to be dominant?
It’s a RISK. HIGH RISK=HIGH REWARD. What is so hard for you to understand about that? You think Marshon Brooks is going to turn into Kobe? Keep thinking that. What about the Morris boys? I guess that’s the next Kevin Love and LeBron James huh? And stop talking like those professional leagues are the same as the NBA. Who knows how much focus the coaching staff has put on him over there? Playing professionally overseas doesn’t mean shit especially when you’re 16 YEARS OLD doing it. Look at all the big bodies in the NBA that really don’t deserve to be there based on their skill. What makes playing in their professional leagues so great? Look at Rubio. He looked like crap over there last year and is already BALLING in the NBA. It means nothing when you’re talking about DEVELOPING.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care if he becomes Kobe.
He’s already MarShon Brooks, a talented, PRODUCTIVE player in this league.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Productive because he puts
up point on a team that gets blown out on a regular basis? Ok.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Productive because he puts up points, period.
That is better than putting up nothing on a team that gets blown out on a regular basis (See: Biyombo, Bismack.)
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Was Darko Milicic an All-NBA player by the end of his rookie contract?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Im totally convinced that mj wants to tank this season. He cant get a super star and not have to pay him much for four yrs any other way. Mj knows ball, but not talent. He said biz reminded him of the dream. And he drafted him in the first round. A huge mistake.
But mj never demands that silas implement a pik n roll w two players that can run it. He never demands that silas oders his players to hit a cutter , to go bak door n hit the guy going bak door. Alley oops. These are fundamental plays . Silas only looks befuddled but lets dj n diaw play pik in pop only to get a bad three attempt out of it.
Mj never demands that the pt gds get in the paint n dish. Both , over dribble , then shoot or force the ball inside for a bad layup attempt only for themselves.they both took 14 shots last nite and both were 3 for 14 w turnovers and only 3 asissts each , being perimeter asissts not in the paint even. Trade them both. Livingston wud have run the offense much better and been a playmaker. W NO PLAYMAKER, THIS TEAM WILL ONLY SCORE 70 points a
nite.
Dj sets no one up but himself. Forces threes and forces himself to the rack . He sits down n kemba comes in and does the same thing. PT GDS MUST CREATE FIRST, PLAYMAKE FIRST,SET THEIR TEAM UP W EASY BUCKETS. GET IN THE PAINT AND EVEN IF THEY HAVE A LAYUP, GIVE IT OFF TO A TEAMMATE!!!!!!!
How long is Silas and his staff going to stand for this. White,brown, mullens, biz, diop,and thomas cant create their own shots. If we had a pass first , playmaking pt gd , dishing in the paint and on the break , we wud have on 3 more games now bc these guys wud have sored regularly around the rim.
If the pt gds are not going to dish, stop shooting or overdribbling , strangling the offense. Silas ,you and your staff will be the scapeoat. Do you think after the rebuild you will coach this team w no bak cuts, cutters who get the ball, alley oopps or pik in rolls ???. Keep looking befuddled w making no changes.
I agree with you about DJ and Kemba
These are two undersized point guards who want to shoot first. Neither of them can efficiently run a team, neither of them can see the floor as well as taller point guards, and these guys are defensive liabilities. Yes they are both quick, yes they can get streaky, but these guys aren’t game changers. Like I said in another post, why would MJ want another undersized shoot first point guard when we already had one in DJ?
Tyrus couldn’t play because his legs were tired. Now, I’ve been watching basketball for over 20 years and I’ve never heard of a player missing a game because of fatigued legs, and he’s only played in 2 games!!!! This guy is tired because he lost about 20 pounds off of his already small frame, when he should’ve gained 20-30 pounds of muscle to be able to handle these big men inside. Why are the coaches not working with these players? I know it was a lockout, but don’t these guys let the players know what they’re weaknesses are and what they should improve on in the offseason? This guy came to camp looking like he’s been starved which is why he’s weak, his shots have been short, and his athleticism is lost.
Mullens, White, and Henderson have been pleasant surprises for this team, Mullens needs to give defense 100 percent effort, and he needs to hit the boards harder but this gy can be a starter in this league for a long time. I don’t know why Carroll was the only option we had as a backup SG, he shouldn’t even be in the league in my opinion, Gana looks like he ate Tyrus’s meals all summer, and Rod Higgins son is on the team cause Rod Higgins! Jordan needs to get his act together this team is not that bad, I know we’re tanking to get Harrison Barnes, but c’mon, is he really worth this?
by Mr Goodlove on Jan 11, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
They told me the same thing about Sean May long ago.
Not to mention Alexis Ajinca.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not giving up on Kemba
I’m stating that Kemba is the exact same type of player DJ is without the 3pt range.
by Mr Goodlove on Jan 11, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The coaches can't control the players.
No matter how much a player is told what he needs to do, nobody but the player can make him do it. Do you not think Thomas has been told to bulk up before over the course of his now six year plus NBA career? He is who he is.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, but your comments about Augustin are ridiculous.
You do not rank in the NBA’s top 10 in assists and A:TO ratio by accident.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Stats don't tell the whole story
DJ is not a great playmaker, watch the games, forget what the statistic tells you. The guy can’t see the floor well, he doesn’t make enough plays for others, and his floor leadership is lacking.
by Mr Goodlove on Jan 11, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
This is why front offices fail
Stats are unbiased and completely honest when used properly. This is why teams like the Thunder and Spurs dig up talent from crazy places. You think it’s because they have a better “eye.” I can tell you exactly what that eye is looking through…
Ha...this is hilarious.
The Thunder and Spurs (along with the Mavericks and Rockets) are among the leaders in the NBA in using advanced statistics for their scouting and player evaluation.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
Uhh...what?
So that’s what proves how good their scouting is and how much they don’t use stats? Got it.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Can't even take someone agreeing with you?
Ridiculous.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Lmao.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Lol.
He ain’t havin none of that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Augustin is 40th(!) in assist ratio.
35th(!) among PGs.
Last season he was 27th(!) in assist ratio.
And just so you know what assist ratio is:
AST: Assist Ratio – the percentage of a player’s possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
This stat is FAR more telling and comprehensive than those cute little numbers you just cherry-picked to prove your case.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Last season he was 27th in PGs.
28th overall.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
We can't hate on the guy for cherry picking numbers to make disingenious statements.
At least he’s willing to use some objective information.
If focus had a dog in this, he’d tell us all that he was rigth because he says so, that is that, and how could we all be so blind not to see what is obvious. Then he would predict the future! I love the silly bastard…
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
All I can do is smh.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Alright! I've gleaned some VERY positive things from the terrible game today.
First of all, we have to start with some of the young talent we’ve traded for with Cho at the helm (DJ White, Byron Mullens). While neither are at, or ever will become all-stars, they’re exactly the kind of pieces contending teams need. Take this line from Connor into consideration:
D.J. White: The usually efficient White shot only 4-10 from the field for nine points, but managed to provide six rebounds in 26 minutes. A mediocre night, I’d say, and a below-average game from him. Grade: C+
We’re considering that below-average game. For DJ White. That means from one of our players, we’ve come to expect a better performance from them. From DJ White. Also, take the example we’re having from Byron Mullens. I give you an example from Someone who is young and will not cost what he’s worth to keep him.
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 4:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
We did not trade for White "with Cho at the helm."
He was part of the Mohammed deal, when Cho was with Portland.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I acknowledge that was a dumb mistake on me.
Follow me on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/#!/RoflConnor
by Panthers FTW on Jan 11, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Go bak n look at the atlanta game n how dj created in the paint on the break and in half ct sets. He had 12 asissts , all in the paint. He looked like tiny archibald. This is how a team shud be run. He scored too.
But he wont do this anymore and didnt do it beore that last atlanta game. He can play but if hes not going to do his job , trade him. Many teams want him too. Get even a lesser pt gd like livingston who will set his teamates up and then shoot gud per centage twos and is taller. Kemba is gettting worse by the game as all he wants to do is shoot. Both struggle mightily and this is not gunna change as they get deed up by bigger, stronger just as quick pt gds .
Last nite, kemba attempted to finnally run a pik n roll, as usual he keeeps the ball n fails to hit the roller. Both defenders didnt even bother to cover the open roller as they knew what kemba was going to do, keep the ball n force a shot double covered w a wide open guy rolling to the basket. He missed badly . No one said anything to him, not a teamate or coach.
Dj does the same thing. He loves to over dribble ,run the shot lock down and then force a three or force his way to the rack missing when he cud have dished to a teammate. Get rid of these pt gds or we have no chance of competing. Mj wants this or he wud say something.
Start mullens. Help brown become a scorer. He can play defense ,rebound but cant create a shot . You cant design a play or him but get in the paint n get im a layup.
Imagine , despite all the other problems if we had a playmaking pt gd even as average as felton who i have grown to admire now or an aging billups. Or even a nortis cole. Or shumbert. A rookie. All these grade b pt gds set ther teammates up. Why are rhondo, nash, kidd,paul and drron so coveted.?? They pass first!!!! And create buckets in the paint.On the break and half ct
Silas,your being set up. You know better. If their tired its even more the reeason for the pt gd to create. You sit there ,, watch dj walk the ball up on breaks ,instead of passing it, watch him play buddy ball w diaw , never demand him to create and then iether see from him turnovers or forced layups in traffic triple covered w nary a pass attempt from dj or kemba.
This is coaching ???
I agree 100%
Another example of bad coaching is whenever Tyrus plays the SF position, he merely stands in one spot waiting to get a open pass. He doesn’t understand or know how to move without the ball into open spaces when the ball is on the opposite side of the floor. Tyrus doesn’t even go inside for rebounds, he plays like he’s a 6’3 guard instead of a 6’10 PF. When D. Brown is in the game he cuts, and he ALWAYS attacks the boards, watch them when the play and you’ll see the difference. My question is, why doesn’t Silas or any of the 3 or 4 coaches tell him about this? If Tyrus has been told and he still does this, he should be benched.
As for DJ, he dribbles way too much, between the legs, behind the back, switching hands, and he isn’t going anywhere! The league is changing tremendously, coaches don’t teach the game anymore. Maybe they don’t have time, or whatever, but these guys don’t know how to play the game right.
Thomas has been in the league for forever.
At some point, it’s not about coaching. He’s had about five of them, so are they all stupid, or is the problem with him?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I want to waive him
he’ll get picked up. And Amnesty Maggette… Tyrus Terrible…
need a trade
need to get rid of diop and diaw?If MJ is going to bring greatness to the Bobcats He needs to get on the stick? This team stijnks
I agree...
Let’s trade Diop for…Damn, can’t think of anything.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
second round pick and salary relief is enough
he has a player option for next season that i assume he will almost certainly exercise considering he isn’t worth anywhere near the $7.3 million option.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Would you trade a second rounder for Diop?
by djwilliams11 on Jan 11, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
would i? no. maybe someone would. especially if it's a 2013 second rounder.
to be perfectly honest i would be fine with just the salary dump.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
No one wants Diop's contract unless they can get rid of a worse contract
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
or if we eat a big chunk of it
which i’m fine with, as long as it gets us some relief.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
here's what i'm saying
Diop is owed $6.9MM this season. He has a player option for $7.3MM next season. It’s possible that a team would be willing to pick him up if we pay for a big chunk of this money. I would be comfortable sending away Diop along with around $9MM to cover the rest of the money owed to him this season and some of next. This would free up $5.2MM for us next season.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
So you'd be ok if the Bobcats FO paid a large part of Diop's salary so he can play on another team?
Glad to hear that you’re comfortable letting MJ spend his money that way. I doubt he likes the idea as much as you do, however.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think MJ might agree with me, actually.
It’s about cutting your losses and putting yourself in a position to improve next season’s roster, either through free agency or by handling a potential contract acquired through a trade of Diaw, Augustin, or both. We were never going to win this year and it’s not like we’re paying Diop to do anything productive for us anyway.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
But that's exactly the point
The team isn’t in a position to win right away, so what good does clearing 5 million in cap space do? If you use that 5 million on another player, you’re actually spending that plus whatever you’re paying Diop just to get marginally better. We’d have to have a pretty special player on our hands to have for any of this to make sense.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
There are too many unknowns to say that.
In my hypothetical, the $5.2MM could be used in any number of scenarios, all of which would help the team long term more than paying Diop to do next to nothing.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Well, respectfully...
I would argue that there are too many unknowns to say that.
You are the one who says that paying Diop to play somewhere else makes sense, at least come up with a plausible scenario where it would. There are a lot of “unknowns” making your task pretty tough.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Here are 3 scenarios in which my suggestion makes sense.
Let’s say we pull the trigger on my suggestion for Diop. Next season we will have $5.2MM more to spend.
SCENARIO ONE
Now let’s say an average SF hits the market because someone amnesties him. We can now use that $5.2MM to bring him in.
SCENARIO TWO
Let’s say we receive a player in a trade for Augustin, Diaw, or both who is due for sizable raise next season and is under team control for another 3 years. We can use the $5.2MM to cover the raise.
SCENARIO THREE
Let’s say we want to bring in a high end free agent next season. The $5.2MM could be used to pay for the first season of his contract.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
You have to at least give specific players so we can judge the plausability of the situation
Let’s say the Bobcats draft the next Jordan in next year’s draft. You’re not willing to asssume that’s going to happen just because I propose it, are you?
you have to get specific, friend.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Just for the sake of argument
Scenario one: An AVERAGE SF hits the market. We spend 5.2MM to bring him to Charlotte. We still have to pay a large portion of Diop’s salary, so we’re essentially paying 10MM+ to have an AVERAGE SF. I can’t think of a single SF that we could get in this scenario where that makes financial sense.
The next two scenarios are even more nebulous than this one. Please add specificity.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
No, we're not.
We’d be paying $7.4MM. Look at it from a season to season perspective.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
You think we'd only pay 2.2MM of Diop's salary?
keep dreaming.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
for next season.
How is this too complicated for you to understand?
My suggestion is to send DIOP along with NINE MILLION DOLLARS. That would cover this season and NEXT SEASON. That means we’d be paying for $2.1MM of his salary for NEXT SEASON, which would free up $5.2MM for us to spend NEXT SEASON.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
How is this too complicated for you?
That 9 million dollars didn’t fall out of a tree. It’s real money that must be factored into the cost/benefit of your proposal.
You’re making this more complicated than it has to be.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm spending $9MM to unload a horrible contract.
And gaining the freedom of $5.2MM to spend on a player for next season who doesn’t suck so damn bad.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Which means you're spending way more money than you should on an average player
You have to look at ALL OF THE MONEY.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
And that money is being better used on Diop?
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
My point is that we HAVE to pay Diop's salary
We made a lousy decision and we have to live with it.
We can cut a little bit of that cost to unload him, but if you cut Diop just to sign a new player, you have to consider whatever you’re still paying Diop in addition to the new player’s salary as the TOTAL COST. So it’s not as simple as saying Diop is gone and his salary no longer counts. It still counts.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not cutting him. I'm trading him.
And so what? Even if this means we’re overpaying an average player, at least we’re putting the same amount we’d be spending on a terrible Diop on something better.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
This is also valid.
If the total money is the same, overpaying an average player the same total amount we are overpaying a non-player is an improvement.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
the total money will not the same, that’s why I’m taking issue with it. There’s no way this scenario happens without us paying well above 2 million a year for Diop to play on another team.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I think you're completely missing my point.
We don’t HAVE to pay his entire salary if we take my proposal. Another team will pay for $5.2MM of his salary in my scenario. This means gives us $5.2MM to spend on someone who will give us more than Diop does.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Also
I meant that 2 million per season as well.
I think it’s a fantasy to think that we could get off paying just 2 million per season for Diop.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Typical pro sports accounting practices would suggest that that money was split relative to his overall salary in those years. So it would be much closer to even over the two years.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Friend, I don't have the time to play.
I can’t spend an hour researching potential trade candidates, amnesty candidates, and which restricted free agents will accept tendered contracts from their teams.
On the whole I think this is a reasonable proposal and I don’t think this is out of the question for MJ. Don’t look at it as us paying Diop to play somewhere else (as if we’re paying him to play for us…he’s producing almost nothing), look at as if you’ve just been handed $5.2MM more to spend next season, just for getting rid of a guy who will not help your team rebuild.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
by goyanks69 on Jan 11, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You gotta remember
alot of fans want us to lose. And they dont want to do anything that helps the team other than draft. They wouldnt take Carmelo for Diop and Tyrus if it means missing out on Harrison Barnes. Im totally on board with you idea. And I actually think it would work
I wouldn't do that trade but for a different reason:
I don’t like Melo. I think he’s overrated. I think Wallace is better. Scoring isn’t all that matters; there are other facets of the game to be considered. Melo does two things very well: he scores and he puts asses in the chairs. Wallace did a lot of things well. Yeah, I think Barnes will be a better player. Better defense, better attitude. That’s not me saying that Barnes is the next greatest thing, but I think he’ll be an all-star (at least).
by Tim Rudisill on Jan 12, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Gerald Wallace? How is he relevant in this discussion?
focus was facetiously saying Tyrus and Diop for Melo, not Gerald Wallace for Melo. We unloaded Wallace last season.
It’s too early to project how Harrison Barnes will fare in the NBA. I’m not a big Melo fan, but he’s an incredibly talented guy in his prime.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Barnes will need to become a man on the court before he's an All-Star.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I believe there are rules which prevent that.
They were there already, but there is now a season-to-season cap on how much each team can send and receive in cash in the new CBA.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
This could very well be true
in which case I would do the max (assuming it’s less than $9MM) and see if we can’t get any takers.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
I believe it's only about $2 mil a year.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
No way, really?
I hope not, because that completely blows up my suggestion. Link?
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
In the previous CBA, teams could receive a maximum of $3 million cash in any trade. The Nov. 26 agreement changed this limit to $3 million per year. Hunter’s memo specified that the $3 million limit will grow by 3 percent each year — meaning it will rise to $3.09 million next season — and that the amount is not netted. Translation: Cash received in trade does not offset cash sent to other teams in trade.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
So the max in my hypo would be $6.18MM total
In which case, it still stands, because we could trade him at the deadline, making the value of the trade about the same as my original suggestion.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
6.09.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
POOR SILAS, SCREWED BY SHINN AND MJ !
by chris in union county on Jan 11, 2012 6:24 AM EST reply actions
How exactly is George Shinn involved?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I think he's implying
The move from Charlotte to NO ruined his run with the Hornets. Or something.
The lakers , celtics, heat and mavericks, pass the ball up the floor on fast breaks. Our pt gds walk it up. Look and watch. If theres an opening for them, they go full speed ahead. Count how many times the pt gds hit a man on the break in the paint a game for a layup. Thats a loss of ten pts a game.
Two. A pt gd has no other reason for existence unless he averages 8 or mor asissts a nite from pure , his own play making, where he gets in the paint, not near the paint and passes to a teammate for a layup.!!!! Im going to say it till silas listens and his staff or mj makes thchanges. Count how many times dj or kemba did this last nite. Once between them ..once!!!!!! Asissts around the perimeter or horn dont count..
Diaw , who shot us out the game along w kemba n dj , at least tries to hit guys in the paint for buckets but he has too many turnovers making poor entry passes.
Plus, why are you guys arguing over whether biz or diop shud play . Both are terrible. They try on defense but cant stop a baby walking thru an opened door , at least at center. They have no footwork on offense. If dj or kemba wud dribble left of the top of the key , whc brings the inside defenders up w thses guys now behind the defense, they cud be thrown 5 lobs a nite. Thats wat derron, kidd, shumpert,rhondo nash paul n billups do. Now uve made up for 20 mor pts. assuming the pt gds dish n the paint too..
Another issue with our Point guards, mainly DJ....
On fast breaks, he always outruns the teamates. I understand if it’s one on one and he has a good angle to outrun the defender, but on a 1 vs 2 or 3 break he thinks he’s NOT 5’11 and he tries to score against the defense on his own, he won’t slow it down and wait for teamates or pull back and call a play…. ever!
Mj cud not pay enuff to keep tyson, felton, jax n livy n cunningham. Only billionares shud be small city team nba owners like cuban and portlands owner who spend any amount. Mj gets a star n the draft as he will this yr so long as we keep losing and keeps him 4 yrs not having to pay him much at all.
Imagine had we kept , felton, jax,tyson w hendo n diaw starting. W thomas livy n dj coming off the bench. It wud be a top 4 seed.
This aint the case. The cats will lose n get a top pik. It was wasted w biz tho and diop and adam morrison.. But at least put something we can watch out there. Play fundamental ball. Pass the ball to guys cutting thru down the lane. Alley oops . Bak screens. Bak doors where guys get the ball. Again , a pik in roll like all top teams. This dribble the clock down by the pt gd stuff only for them to jack it or force a bad layup stagnant offense will only score 70 pts and is hard to watch.
Why would you want to pay a team with one of the highest payroll's in the league
to barely make the playoffs?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Why are people getting on to MJ now
The dude is leaving the desicions to Cho and you guys still bash hi, for no reason
Looks like it's just one guy in this thread.
Just several times over…well, unless you count chris in union county’s classic one liners.
"People are gonna respect the Panthers, and I want what I do as a quarterback to be scary. I want people to be in fear. I want it, and I’m gonna get it."
- Carolina Panthers Franchise Quarterback
Even with Cho at the helm of decision making
it can only go so far. MJ still gets to pull the trigger and say “no”…MJ is too involved as the owner. You actually think resigning Brown (Silas and his dumb “underdog” mentality) was Cho’s idea? What about Cory Higgins? I dont think so. At the end of the day MJ is so involved that Cho will have a hard time (at least in the beginning stages) to make MAJOR moves. Which he hasnt done yet bc MJ is scared to let go of the chains…
by focuslja on Jan 11, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't want to debate your beliefs about MJ's abilities to manage a club
But if you’re implying that we shouldn’t have wanted to resign Kwame Brown after the season he had with us, then I have to say you’re wrong. Any team without a starting center under contract would have wanted to sign Kwame. I don’t know why Cho wouldn’t have wanted him either. We wanted Kwame, but we let another team over pay him, which is an example of MJ NOT making a stupid move.
The Cory Higgins deal is pure nepatism, though it’s likely harmless in terms of the total wins and losses for the Bobcats this season.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
"The Cory Higgins deal is pure nepatism (sic), though it’s likely harmless..."
This is exactly the problem with the fans on this site. Nobody’s willing to question a single move the team makes. On principle alone, we should be furious that the team has again used relationships, rather than ability, as the trigger for a personnel move. As bad as this team is, there is no reason whatsoever that roster spot should not be being used on a player who is young, holds potential for the future, and has the enough CURRENT ability to actually get in the games.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I would agree
If it was anything other than a minimum rookie contract to put a body on the bench in case of injuries. If I was going to let a Corey Higgins signing bother me, I’d be one irritable/unhappy dude.
I'll get furious over plenty of things in this world
but roster decisions on a professional sports team will never be cause for fury.
I see that we have a difference of opinion, and I won’t waste time trying to convince you that you may be taking your fandom too seriously.
I agree that the best FA available should fill the last roster spot. “Best” should be determined by skills on the court vs. price of contract. However, the likelihood that whoever we put in Cory Higgins’ spot is going to be a player of consequence is quite small. We’re likely losing nothing more than MJ’s money (a relatively small amount at that) on this roster spot. If you can make a case that the final roster spot has a significant impact on this particular team, I’ll listen. Otherwise, I won’t waste time worrying over an issue of no consequence.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Resigning Brown at a minimum level deal really set the franchise back.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
You guys are killing me
A bad move is a bad move. Minimum or max. Brown aint coming back next year. Nor is he playing worth anything this year. So why not spend that money on a undrafted FA or a D-League player that actually has the skillset or potential you are looking for. They would also be cheaper than a player that we know isnt that good. We signed him bc he is a fan favorite. Thats it. I dont care how much he is. Its still money that couldve been spent elsewhere.
"They would also be cheaper than a player that we know isn't that good".
Two things wrong with this……………..
1. IT WAS A MINIMUM LEVEL DEAL!!! The shit doesn’t get any cheaper. Any of your d-league saviours would be paid the SAME THING.. And I’m sure Brown would look great in the garbage ass d league too.
2. Not everyone feels that Brown is absolute garbage the same way you do so stop acting like everyone here has been complaining about the man.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
3. Fan favourites are there for the fans. They help put fans in the seat and generate interest in the team: something that is extremely important for a team trying to make a profit.
by Tim Rudisill on Jan 11, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, but Derrick Brown isn't putting anybody in a seat that Rod Benson or somebody else wouldn't.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
And do you go to games that you otherwise wouldn't simply because of his presence on the team?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Not his presence alone
But his presence makes the team more appealing. Very few bench players are going to single handedly put people in the seats, but they can help.
For example, I wouldn’t go to a Clippers game only to see DeAndre Jordan, but his presence on the team makes the Clippers more appealing to go see because he’s a high flyer and shot blocker.
I don't disagree with you.
That was not, however, the original premise.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
No that is wrong.
MINIMUM deals are based on how many Years a player has been in the league. Brown is getting the MINIMUM DEAL for a 3yr player. Which is about 900+k. While an Elijah Milsap would probably cost us 500k at the most. And I could guarantee that he would have helped us alot more than Brown so far. Not only that but we pretty much know that Brown is as good as he’s gonna get. Milsap has a chance to get better and he’s cheaper. And younger. And posesses way more skill. Already. He doesnt need to be in Accelerated Basketball to learn how to shoot…
I saw a wee bit of Milsap today playing in the D-League
First shot he took was a FT line jumper that hit backboard before it hit rim and was about a foot right. It actually might have been Terrico White. I can’t remember now, but it was one of the players you clamor for. Neither one looked to be that good. And lastly, both are guards, and if they were to replace Brown we’d have 0 healthy SFs on the roster right now.
Exactly.
Something I completely failed to mention. BROWN IS A SMALL FORWARD FOCUS.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Those are exactly the same kinds of shots Biyombo takes on a regular basis...
yet everybody’s convinced he’s going to be Olajuwon redux.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong.
Biyombo hasn’t taken ANY shots on the regular basis because there is no “regular basis” for him yet.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
It's every bit as regular as the single instance JDL cited to prove Milsap as a poor player.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Elijah Milsap=D-League
Bismack Biyombo=Lottery Pick
See the difference?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I do.
One came from Africa where nobody had actually seen how awful he was. The other actually got watched by scouts who know he’s not any good.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
That was the first impression I got
And from what I’ve watched of the game, he didn’t do much to show that he was ready to make an impact in the NBA.
And the Biyombo comparison is ludicrous. 6’6" guards are a dime a dozen in the NBA. It’s much harder to find a 6’9" F/C with a 7’7" wingspan with the athletic ability Biyombo has.
This.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
I know!
Remember Wang Zhizhi? He was really tall, too. And Shawn Bradley! And Stromile Swift was athletic enough to win an Olympic decathalon!
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 12, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
You're the only person in the world who gives a damn about Elijah Milsap Focus.
The sooner you realize that the sooner you’ll stop looking dumb to us. And a MINIMUM level deal counts against the cap the same for ANY PLAYER. You can always sign anyone to a minimum level deal even if you are 800 million over the cap. Who the hell are you to say that Brown is as good as he’s going to get? Who else around here is saying “they know this” other than you?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
A bad move is NOT just a bad move
You really think a minimum contract for one year is equivalent to a max contract to Eddy Curry? Bad is bad? That’s WAY off base.
No, I think it works pretty much like a light switch
The light is either on or off. A move is either good or bad. There’s no room for shades of grey in this guy’s world.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Derrick Brown
wasnt good the first time. Sorry. He is a favorite of mine but my like for him isnt bigger than the team. ALL the undrafted FAs are better than him. And I can name about 5 d-league SFs that are better than him.
In your opinion only.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, right.
Like Jordan is just being totally hands-off. I’ll believe that when sharks fly.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
It kills me that Portland
is doing so well with Raymond and Crash. Sure, we didn’t have Aldrich, a decent coach or a bench, but it could have been us!
Im loving that they are doing well
I remember reading all the downtalk on Felt diesel even after he left. And I said that he was a top PG. People blamed his numbers on D’Antoni. Then said “well if he is so good then why has he already been on 4 teams?”. Well Felt-Dizzy now you are around some fans that appreciate you…
felton was my favorite bobcat
he was a general on the court and hopefully more ppl realize this after seeing dj at the helm.
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
Uhh...
I don’t know what that actually means in terms of contributing to a basketball team, but the guy has been outperformed by Augustin in nearly every way since he left and Augustin became the starter.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
thats totally true if you're going for the
bobcats are actually worse overall angle. DJ is statistically better but not a better PG. Felt could at least control the floor instead of letting it be a rampant mess like it is with DJ at the helm.
I’m a DJ supporter btw but he’s terrible this year IMO.
"Control the floor?"
What good did that do? He didn’t take the team anywhere until we doubled the payroll and brought on a hall of fame coach at a huge salary.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Felt Diesel..... more like Fat Diesel
still, an excellent nickname.
by Aisander D on Jan 11, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I liked Felton, still do
It didn’t make sense to sign him here for the money that he got elsewhere. It was best for him and for Charlotte to part ways.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Wait...
The same Ray Felton who just got dominated by Kyrie Irving two games ago the same way he got dominated by Jameer friggin’ Nelson in the playoffs? The one who’s still working on getting his weight and conditioning where they should be despite his $7.5 million contract which requires little he can directly control EXCEPT that? The one scoring a whopping 11 PPG while shooting at a .364 clip (including .148 from three?) The one whose numbers are equaled or exceeded by Augustin, who is a younger player drafted lower on an inferior team? The one who got traded after the best statistical start of his career and then had to back up a younger player drafted lower? Oh, and the one who is likely to be replaced in Portland and be on ANOTHER team by the start of next year? Ha.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Im sure the Jameer Nelson
thing was during the height of Nelson career. He was a top 10 guard at one point. He’s done NOW. But ppl expected alot more outta him before then and after. Until he got hurt. And Im sure it wasnt Felton and DJ’s fault that they had to spin at the top of the key…
Procto's tarheel hatred again blinds him lol
Augustin’s three year career average is 10 pts, 4 asst, 1 reb per. Not much brighter than Felton. Oh yeah, Augustin got handled by Kyrie Irving as well….and Brandon Jennings and last night by Lowery. Any point guard Augustin plays against usually has a field day on him. The one who won the starting role by default because they didn’t want to pay Felton or give Livingston a chance? The one who got picked ninth when everyone wanted Brook Lopez? The one who was brought in by Larry Brown who’s old ideas ran him out the NBA? The one who has reached his ceiling, is always inconsistent and is the starter on a 2-9 team? Ha.
"You ain't supposed to be smiling and giggling after we lose. I've never had the mentality of losing in my whole life and for a person to tell me you can't win them all, that's a loser's mentality." - Cam Newton
Since Felton's departure, Augustin has outproduced him in every way.
And there’s nothing like a guy who has “reached his ceiling” as he’s hitting career highs in scoring, assists, and rebounding.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I love how you used the "being on an inferior team" argument
in favor of DJ Augustin, implying that his production is more impressive on an inferior team. Yet when I said the same thing about Kemba, you said:
Which is exactly why he SHOULD be producing more than he is.
Lmao.
So now Felton is great now? I don’t think he ever got the credit he deserved around here, but stop talking like he’s anything more than a role player on a team full of them. The Blazers are another version of the Nuggets at this point. All this high praise will fade down once they’re bounced out of the playoffs again.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
Camby is playing just as good as any 25yr old center. Aldridge is still on all-star levels. Wallace is on all-star levels. Felton is being the court general he always has been. Nicolas Batum/Matthews are coming of age. I dont know what you’ve been watching. And no one ever said Felton was great. Just underrated. Just because he aint mega flashy or puts up big numbers, he doesnt get the credit for being a true general on the floor. He knows how to change tempo and direct traffic with the best of them. And I cant believe that description of Felton is coming from a person who also said its OK to sign D. Brown or keep Taylor Griffin around…
Ok, 7-2
means that the team is a title contender right? No? Didn’t think so. What do you mean you don’t know what I’ve been watching? Did you watch how good the Hornets started last year? Did you watch how they were bounced in the first round? Portland is good, but not a championship contender. That’s what I’ve BEEN WATCHING. A good team masquerading as a great one. Not happening. I said Felton didn’t get the credit he deserved around here so don’t defend him against me. And I’m not sure who you’re referring to, but the difference between Felton and Brown is Felton makes OVER 7 million a damn year while Brown doesn’t even make 500k. You keep talking like all of these players are expected to be equals.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
And the Blazers will be bounced out of the playoffs.
You wanna bitch over 200 or 300k that doesn’t hurt anyone at all? Good God man.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I know this is sad
But I think the biggest issue last night was that everyone on the team just looked exhausted. The offense didn’t have a lot of movement, EVERY missed shot was short, etc. I thought the team played hard, as evidenced by one of their better defensive performances of the year so I don’t think effort was the real issue. That doesn’t bode well for the 5 games in 6 nights starting tomorrow but if you look at the schedule, it lets up dramatically after next Tuesday. Expect a rough week ahead.
The injuries are making this worse too. I know we’re not a good team at full strength but playing without Maggette, Williams, and Tyrus is a death blow to our scoring and depth.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 11, 2012 10:48 AM EST reply actions
Yep, everybody looked sluggish
At first, I was suspect of poor effort, but usually Silas is all over that, and he was pretty calm during timeouts.
by djwilliams11 on Jan 11, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
But by the same token...
Maggette and Thomas have been injury-prone for some time now, and they signed Williams knowing he was hurt. So these aren’t exactly fluke injuries that should have taken anybody by surprise. They’re paying for the decisions they made.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
What difference does it really make?
So maybe we go 2-9 in this stretch as opposed to 3-8? I was just stating a fact that guys are hurt and combined with the brutal schedule, the team looks really tired now. I wasn’t attempting to turn this (and every other single comment in every thread) into an opportunity to take out a vendetta on the front office. We all know how we got here. Digging it up 100 times in every post doesn’t really help.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 11, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
People seem to forget that we're going by the book here.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Do you guys
really think we would be 3-8 if Maggs and Williams wouldve been playing? We almost beat ATL and INDY without them. And right now they are top teams. I know for damn sure we wouldntve lost to Houston last night. We may be at .500 or over if we had both Williams and Maggs.
I wasn't implying that at all
I was just wondering how this turned into a bash the front office comment when all I said was the team looked really tired last night and that’s partly due to the rash of injuries we’ve encountered. Of course our record would be better if those guys were available.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 11, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Lol.
Did you see the final score of the Indy game? I’m not even sure what you’re trying to argue? You talk about how much we suck but then say we would be at .500 or above if we were healthy. What exactly are you getting at?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Would the economy be in such bad shape of Lincoln was still President?
Doesn’t matter because that isn’t happening either. Those guys are injured. It happens. Every team in the league is or will have to deal with that issues this and every season into infinity.
But none of us know what this team would look like with the addition of those two. Basketball teams are not a mere sum of their parts.
But subtracting two of the more talented players on the roster cannot reasonably be considered an improvement.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, I'm certainly not arguing that.
I am arguing that it’s difficult, if not ill advised, to extrapolate what our record and results would be with the addition of those two.
Sorry, but those guys don't make up 22 points in one game.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Neither does pretending it's not reality.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Lol. I didn't even realize the game was yesterday.
Glad I missed it though.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 11:40 AM EST reply actions
Even the most rabid fan
Needs an occasional night off from watching this team.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 11, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
lol well put.
it’s tough work enduring these games.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
I live in Louisville
And I decided to watch it over the UofL/Providence game. The sad part is, I still made the right decision. Rough night.
by djwilliams11 on Jan 11, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
baron davis had a rough season 1 here in charlotte
and turned into a good PG. I expect kemba wakler to have ups and downs this year. he will never be a great passer, but he can make plays for other and be shown how to become a better passer in time. the key for walker if gonna be he scoring. I dont expect him to EVER be a lock down defender, but he can serve a role. think muggsy bogus, but with better scoring punch.
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
Haha...
Bogues was in the top five in APG five different seasons and ranks 17th all-time. I don’t think that’s a great comparison.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Jan 11, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
I want to believe we can trade both diaw and najera for a worthy player.
but is it more likley we let them walk and keep the cap space this summer?
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
As opposed to unloading both of them for a quality player,
absolutely. That quality player will more than likely be overpaid and come with baggage.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Diaw could probably net us Beasley. Or at least Johnson and Pekovic. But I say if we arent getting a GOOD young player then just let them walk. We arent losing anything by letting them walk…
Exactly
And given Diaw’s spotty play, I’ll settle for the cap space because the only other option is likely taking a shady contract back.
6 feet of Smooth
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 11, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
It's refreshing to sometimes be able to agree with you.
It really is Focus.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Well since no one likes this effing team, I'm just going to burn this mother to the ground.
by Aisander D on Jan 11, 2012 7:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
MJ was a bad mofo.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 11, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
This website reminds me of my 9 month old sometimes.
Everyone plays nicely for like 10 minutes followed by 2 hours of crying and then the site goes dead when everyone goes down for a nap.
Also, I think this specific comments section wins the award for most fallacious arguments in a single conversation. Epic.
I believe that it's a total prick move to condescend to the people on this site who are talking about topics than genuinely interest all who participate
Further, it’s utter hypocrisy considering that it’s coming from a guy who regularly adds the most childish remarks.
Having said that, however, I have to agree with you this time Aisander. You may be the pot calling the kettle black, but there’s no denying it. This kettle sure is black.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
But apparently on nothing else.
I like to think of my childishness as more of a sense of whimsy. But I guess that’s just arguing semantics.
Yea, like do you behave like a pricky troll or a trolly prick?
At a certain point, we’re just using different words to say the same thing.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
It's only as serious as you take it, homey
To be fair, my words are to only point out the insults and mockery that you spit at others. Perhaps you should take my observations with the same whimsy that you offer with yours.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Just because I don't throw up gifs doesn't mean I don't have a sense of humor.
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
You're not getting all serious and offended on me are you?
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
You silly boy
We need a nice sarcastic gif before someone starts to get all cranky!
by Basketball Rambler on Jan 11, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Dude chill out he is just having fun like kind of what this site is for
Posting gifs is not being a troll getting on a site and talking trash is
This reminded me of a very recent Questionable Content
where Faye used the words “aggressively passive”.
by Tim Rudisill on Jan 12, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Rufus on Fire
Related FanShots on Rufus on Fire
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
