Counting Down the Top 24 Bobcats of All-Time -- #5-4
by Ben Swanson on Aug 29, 2011 3:37 PM EDT
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In order to keep some semblance of suspense, I'm waiting to name numbers 3 through 1 until Friday. Yay!
5. Jason Richardson
Though only in Charlotte for one full season, Richardson had some of the most talent in Charlotte history. Extremely athletic, Richardson could jump out of the gym. As many know, he had won two Dunk Contests before coming to the Bobcats in a draft day trade that included Brandan Wright. It looked like he was the go-to scorer the team needed for so long. And he was the best pure scorer the Bobcats have ever had, with a consistent jump shot and the talent to get to just about anywhere on the court to find a good look. His range was as good as it's ever been, shooting 40.6% from behind the arc in his only full season in the Queen City. His defense was more or less mediocre. His length and athletic ability allowed him to jump into passing lanes, but as an on-ball defender, he was lacking, making mental mistakes on reactions. That withstanding, he was a relentless scorer and he did so efficiently with explosiveness that hasn't been seen since he left in the Boris Diaw / Raja Bell trade.
4. Raymond Felton
A North Carolina mainstay for years, Felton was drafted in 2005 by the Bobcats fifth overall. He had great quickness and decent athleticism despite a paunchy figure. He worked well in the pick and roll with his skill to dart into the lane or create passing lanes. His range and shot selection were inconsistent, limiting him from being a great guard. Though not presenting great size as a guard, his quickness and intelligence made him a good defender, able to pressure any guard. He wasn't a big risk-taker on defense, though. His development was hindered by a year under Sam Vincent who thought it would be a good idea to play him at the 2, for some reason. After his first year with Larry Brown as head coach, which was unimpressive, he had a breakthrough season in his final year on the Bobcats, helping lead the team to their first playoff berth. As far as intangibles, he was one of the best leaders the Bobcats have ever had. Vocal and tough, he was a veritable court general. His time in Charlotte came to an end after he was eviscerated by the quicker Jameer Nelson in the 2010 playoffs against the Orlando Magic and he sought out another team to pay him what the Bobcats wouldn't.
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I guess the only question remaining is
who is higher on the list, Okafor or Jackson? I’m intrigued.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Aug 29, 2011 3:53 PM EDT reply actions
jackson easily, okafor wasnt around when they made playoffs
by jadedeed2327 on Aug 29, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, Jackson was here for less than two seasons. Okafor was here for 5 and averaged 14 points, 10 rebounds, and nearly two blocks.
"With the third pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Charlotte Bobcats select, Adam Morrison, Gonzaga."
by FirstCat on Aug 29, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
...which was obviously Okafor's fault.
Swap Jackson/Chandler for Henderson/Okafor, and we still make the playoffs…except, oh, wait, Brown would never have played Henderson. Shit. Well, we had the talent there?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 29, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We would not have made the playoffs without Jax.
"With the third pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Charlotte Bobcats select, Adam Morrison, Gonzaga."
Sure we would have.
They doubled the payroll and threw away all of our young assets with upside. Didn’t have to be Jackson.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 30, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A Rec to you sir.
There are several pieces that I think we could have held on to and still made a run…
Damn you Sam Vincent, Bob Johnson, and Larry Brown (in no particular order)
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Aug 31, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't really agree with that
Ray/Hendo/Wallace/Diaw/Okafor with Tyrus as the sixth man. That looks good on paper, but who’s going to score? Who’s going to take over the play making when Felton needs someone to take over play making?
Jackson really provided the spark that Charlotte had never seen. Okafor is a huge improvement at center, but is he ever going to take a team to the playoffs with his offense? I say no.
by Basketball Rambler on Sep 1, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I take it back further...
Hermann was actually finding his place at the end of his 1 season…
If we would have held on to J-Rich for scoring…
So many things could have gone different in the drafting, scoring might have never been an issue.
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Sep 1, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Scoring: Wallace, Henderson, and Okafor are 15 PPG guys on that team. And Diaw can distribute. Augustin would still be on the team.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 1, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I would rebuild with that team.
by Basketball Rambler on Sep 2, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That's perfectly fine.
Building patiently and affordably through youth and the draft is what we should have been doing all along. But Larry Brown and Jordan screwed that pooch right off the bat.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 3, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
J-Rich was so disappointing for me
I was so stoked when we traded for him. Then he played more like a spot up shooter than anything else. I really wanted him to attack the paint and draw fouls and it just never happened. His trade to Charlotte was the beginning of the end of his career.
by drapht00 on Aug 29, 2011 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wouldnt say 3 playoff appearances is too shabby. I think PHX converted him into a shooter like they do everyone else. PHX hurts alot of players bc of Nash being the primary option on offense (for some reason). It was really just a pass/shoot offense and it hurt alot of players that had good all-around offensive skillsets. JRich did what he was supposed to do with us. I just wish he wasnt our #1 option when he was here. I mean Wallace was good but his real “coming of age” was when JAX came.
J-Rich has a limited game
But, he still belongs in our top 10. The only other Bobcat I could see knocking him out of the top 5 would be Boris, but that is debatable.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Aug 30, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a perfectly reasonable explantion for Vincent putting Felton at shooting guard.
He couldn’t can’t direct an NBA offense to save his life. Over the course of his entire career, every stat you can track improves for Felton when he’s playing off the ball and another player is dictating the offense. Why do you think a younger player who came in the league with an inferior pedigree and a lower draft rank was running the point with Felton playing off the ball under a Hall of Famer last year in Denver?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
yup,
I was going to mention the Nuggets example.
by Roger, Roger on Aug 29, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually thought that it wasnt Felton’s lack of being a general that warranted him playing sg in PHX. If you look at the dynamic of the offense, it was scary to have two good passers on a court that could also score. Wilson was the SF most of the time and Afflalo was injured. Felton showed glimpses of brilliance in both NY and DEN. I also think it was bc they didnt want to disturb the fact that Lawson was their guy going forward. I dont think it had too much to do with Felton not being a general. Plus Felton was strong enough to guard most SGs in the league while not compromising the speed on the game. The two PG set worked almost to perfection in Denver. i would go as far as to say that a passing combo guard would be Den best choice if they cant resign Afflalo (which they will bc he’s their number one priority). Im thinking Jarret Jack or Delonte West would fit their bill and they wouldnt lose a step.
The fact that you're suggesting Jack or West as replacements for Felton pretty much says it all.
They both define ‘NBA journeyman.’
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 30, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t saying they would replace Felton. I said if they can’t resign AFFLALO (which they will bc Wilson is in China now), then a versatile combo guard would be nice to have startingand off the bench. I think Jo Hamilton will get meaningful minutes behind Gallo and could possibly be moved to SG depending on his performance. So it would be better for them to have a SG like Delonte, T-Will/Mac, Grant Hill, Stevenson, Jack, Court Lee, Lou Williams, Toney Douglass would be good players to obtain in that spot. Someone who can defend, distribute but also give you 10-14pts consistently. T-Mac or Lee (or both) would be perfect
Because Lawson is a much better scorer. He’s quicker and he was already accustomed to playing in Karl’s offense. He pushes the ball better and is a more consistent shooter. Raymond’s a better defender, but defense wasn’t really the focus of that run ’n gun Nuggets team. Draft rank is irrelevant.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
by Ben Swanson on Aug 30, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft rank is ABSOLUTELY relevant.
Further, why would Lawson being a better SCORER be a good argument for why he should have been playing POINT GUARD?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 30, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft rank is not pertinent. That the Bobcats overreached for Felton and the Nuggets found a steal at their respective draft positions shouldn’t make a difference in why Lawson was selected over Felton in Denver. I think I can guarantee George Karl did not make a Pros and Cons list of choosing Lawson over Felton with one of the ‘Cons’ being “Felton was drafted higher.”
Point guard has been moving to a more combo guard position for years. Derrick Rose. Russell Westbrook. Tyreke Evans. The list goes on. Ty Lawson is like that, though not as dominant as those players due to his size. But he’s a sharper shooter than Felton and in Karl’s offense, that’s more crucial than Felton’s defense and passing.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
...except Lawson is a better distributor than Felton.
You should expect players drafted higher to perform better. That’s why they get drafted higher in the first place. Felton, as an average player, is nothing but a disappointment.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 31, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Except he's not, at least not yet
Felton’s career AST% = 32%
Lawson’s = 26.7%
Expectations are great and all when evaluating how much a player has lived up to their own draft position, but when it came to Denver choosing which PG to go with, it had zero bearing on the decision.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
Citing that statistic as relevant contradicts his assertion that the offense doesn't ask him to pass.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 1, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
How so?
You said Lawson is a better distributor. Basketball-Reference defines AST % as “Assist percentage is an estimate of the percentage of teammate field goals a player assisted while he was on on the floor.” A better distributor would find a way to assist more of his teammates FGs. It’s relevant to what you brought up. I don’t think it’s very relevant to the Nuggets offense that led the league in points scored and was second in pace. That system races up and down the court. They want points. Lawson can score in a variety of ways and his adequate passing is fine. Felton cannot score as efficiently and he isn’t as fast. His better passing does not outweigh Lawson’s own advantages.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
looking at
a single statistic, and then declaring Felton a “better passer” because of it, is what makes people dislike statistics.
Stephen Jackson is a career 42% fg shooter, while Gerald Henderson is a career 44%… so does that make Henderson the better shooter/scorer?
Lawson just finished his 2nd year in the NBA, and didn’t get an opportunity to start consistently until late feb this year.
Felton’s best attribute is his defense, but he gives up alot on offense by being very inefficient with the ball. Thats where his problem is and always has been.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Sep 2, 2011 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Who's system are the running? George Karl's or Larry Brown's?
Because if it’s George Karl’s, he’s probably pretty damn happy with Lawson doing a lot of scoring and a moderate amount of dishing.
I'm always amazed
at how much love Felton gets. Dude is (and was) not very good at all. How someone can put him ahead of J-Rich I’ll never understand.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 30, 2011 7:25 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yup, let's disregard that J Rich played just a hair over one season.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
by Ben Swanson on Aug 30, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
so that makes J-Rich
less of a player in the time he spent with Charlotte?
Felton’s best season (arguably) with the Cats was when he was utilized the least. It was his 2nd least minutes since his rookie season, it was the least shots he had ever taken for his career, he tied his career low in assists and he scored 0.2 more points than his rookie season.
LB literally tried to take the ball out of his hands….. just what you want from your PG.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 30, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much. I know Felton wasn’t as talented a player as Richardson. I’m not saying that. If you hearken back to my introduction to this series, I said we took into consideration “sustained contribution, longevity, talent and production.” Richardson was here for 96 games and he produced boatloads of buckets. But Felton was a pretty good point guard, stayed here for four more seasons than Richardson and helped lead the team to the playoffs. That counts for something. I guess we just disagree on this. I certainly respect your position on this and can understand your argument.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
Felton was more talented than J-Rich
Have you ever seen J-Rich try to dribble? One game during the Bobcats J-Rich era, all our point guards were out. Gerald Wallace played point guard that game. You’d expect the SG to be able to control the ball. J-Rich didn’t have that skill.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Aug 30, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
J-Rich was more talented than Felton.
Have you ever seen Felton try to run a real offense? One game during the Bobcats Felton era, we were down to our last possession with a chance to win or tie. Felton, instead of looking for a teammate or finding a good shot, jacked up a contested three without even looking for a teammate and, predictably, bricked it. You’d expect the PG do make a better choice than that. Felton didn’t have that skill.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 31, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
They are both good at their respective positions. Felton was better in LBs system bc of his defense and eventual development into a natural court general. JRich fits better as a second option. He fits better on an uptempo team of players with long bodies like the GS team he flourished in or a team like Denver. (Which would be a good fit if Lawson wasn’t the pg)
I was simply offering a rebuttal in precisely the style suggested.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Aug 31, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
We've been down to our last possession with Felton many times.
Many times he got the ball to GW for the win. Other times he won the game himself. And other times he failed as you mentioned.
With the game on the line, I would rather have the ball in the hands of Felton than in the hands of J-Rich.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Sep 2, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Felton's career .100 FG% and sub 1.0 A:TO on end-game shots ratio would suggest otherwise.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 3, 2011 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand that
never read the first one in depth (more or less read the players listed) and can see where you are coming from.
I’d personally rank players based on their skill while here…. but I can see how a 5 year contribution can be viewed as greater than 96 games.
I’d also still not call Felton a ‘good’ pg, but thats definetely somewhere where we can agree to disagree.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Aug 31, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say Felton was about as close to average as you can get.
I wouldn’t call him bad and I wouldn’t call him good. Just an average player with a lot of playing time.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Aug 31, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Average...
Not Starting quality but average…Like a 6th, 7th guy
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Sep 1, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 1, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
what the world did yal want
From Felton? He avg like 16 and 8 (or was it 6) with us. He was better in NY and still good coming off the bench in Den. Did you want Steve Nash like passes? I don’t get it. Did you want him to be a 20pt scorer on a team with Wallace & Jax? What makes him so avg? Not arguing, I just wanna kno. I thought he did what he was supposed to do.
I wanted Felton to make smarter decisions at the end of the game.
I lost count of how many games we lost because he made a terrible decision in crunch time either trying to drive and kick and losing the ball or hoisting up a contested jump shot that bricked off the side of the rim. I wanted Felton to be more of a floor general. Sure, he was decent on defense and decent on offense, but he was never the PG that he could have been. He never took control of the offense the way he should have. It’s hard to explain because I know it’s easy to look at the stats and say “he did pretty good”, but Felton played more like a SG than a real PG. More like a less talented version of Brandon Jennings or Russell Westbrook.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 1, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldnt say less talented
maybe less offensive. But thats neither here or there. I dont think the system that we implemented during the time really maximized what Felton could do. Denver wouldve been a perfect fit had it not been for Lawson being designated to lead the team into the future. If you look at the roster then, it wasnt really a team that you could get alot of assists on. Wallace just really became efficient at shooting an outside shot consistently. Only Jax and sometimes Flip were players you would want to kick it out to. Everyone else were slashers and cutters. Diaw could hit some occassionally but more often than not he was playing a point forward type of game.
It's the same team and the same system that Brevin Knight rode to several seasons as an assist leader.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 1, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
15-6 pretty much defines average for a starting PG.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 1, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Average = medeocre
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Sep 1, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Precisely.
Assuming, of course, that you meant mediocre. ;)
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 2, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I knew I was spelling it wrong…
The posts here have just been so…well…lacking…
I just didn’t even feel like expending the energy to check it…
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
Correct.
His best role would be in a Ben Gordon-esque scoring role.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 1, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
And his grittitude was off the charts!
…who cares?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Sep 4, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
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