Hi, I'm Corey Maggette
by Joshua Priemski on Jul 14, 2011 7:00 AM EDT
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"Hey there guys, I'm Corey Maggette. I've always had the potential to be one of the most efficient offensive players in the league. That said, I'm not. Because I'm a terrible shooter and I will jack up millions of shots per game from a foot or two inside the three-point line. You know, the worst shot in basketball. Yeah. I'm also an abysmal defender! I don't show much effort, and I'm very open to fouling someone when they blow by me." - Corey Maggette, in my head
I think it's safe to assume that's what most of us think of when we work up the courage to think of Corey Maggette. Well, most of that is true.
When the Bobcats acquired Maggette, I felt like Darth Vader learning about Padme's whereabouts at the end of Episode 3. No? It was brutal. I felt like Cho had grabbed my heart with his little advanced stats-loving hands and ripped it out of my chest -- before telling Maggette it was a basketball, ensuring I'd never get it back.
Has that feeling changed? Somewhat. I still believe Maggette is the bane of the universe, but I've since come to accept that he is our bane of the universe.
The Bobcats haven't been a good offensive team since, well, ever. And if there's one thing Corey Maggette can do exceptionally well when focused, it's score. I can't fathom why he's averaged nearly 4.5 attempts per game from 16-23 feet over his career (about 1.7 go in). I can't. Maybe he thinks that one day, all of his bricks will undergo metamorphosis, emerging as delicate feathers that the winds of destiny will waft into the net. I don't want to understand his motives.
All I ask from Maggette is that he try. I want him to try to be what he's never been: a leader. He said all of the right things on his conference call after the trade: the words "leader" and "motivation" often came up. Sure, maybe he was just being professional and talking out of his ass. But something tells me he's serious. Something tells me that Paul Silas will get into Maggette's brain and rid him of the virus he's synonymous with. If there's one thing that I love about Silas, it's his ability to understand his players and motivate them.
And it won't be just Silas encouraging him to change. Maggette seems eager to change himself. Check out this excerpt from a Milwaukee blogger:
"The story of Maggette joining other Clippers players to pay for ex-coach Kim Hughes cancer treatments is heartwarming. The moment that stands out to me is at the end of a blowout home loss Maggette left the floor with Larry Sanders talking about the game. They sat on the bench together in the closing moments and Maggette was talking to Sanders about how to play the game. This looked like a conversation a coach would be having with a young player, but the veteran bonded with the rookie."
Doesn't that sound encouraging? Does that sound like the Maggette we know from Golden State? I don't think so.
He's going to average more than 18 points per game and nab 5 rebounds. That's a given. But I truly believe that he's capable of becoming a veteran leader on this rebuilding Bobcats squad.
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Depending on how things go, maybe Maggette does have a future here in Charlotte.
I’m sure we’ll try to deal him at the deadline for an expiring and a late first rounder or early second rounder, but he’s already our best offensive player and that’s the one thing that we need.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 14, 2011 8:11 AM EDT reply actions
i'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way
u need the right player to fill “the need” (scoring)…i’d rather give maggs the “troy murphy” treatment
J.UST E.NJOY T.HIS S.HIT
This is Forty08.
by big_p.a.w.z. on Jul 14, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
After that first paragraph I was all ready to dispel that inefficient scorer myth
and from the way you finished this article, it seems you may be ready to listen.
Here in Bobcat land, I’ve always viewed Maggs from afar, and I imagine I’m not alone. He was the guy who scored, but didn’t really help his team win. The ball hog who was memorably chidded by Kevin Garnet for “gettin his numbers” while the Celtics rolled over his team. I can’t speech definitively to how much Corey helps his team. None of us really can. But compare his scoring stats to Jackson (both recent and career), and there’s reason to believe we got the better end of the deal (from a pure scoring perspective). Big ups to queencityhoops.com for basically saying all of this already, but I’m going to compare some of the numbers.
Look at career per 36. The two players take a roughly equal number of FGA, but Maggs shoots .458 while the good Capn’ shoots .418. While they’re both eqaully mediocre 3pt. shooters (~.33), Jackson takes nearly 5 per 36min, while Corey attempts only 2.2. Corey is much better at getting to the line, making a whopping 7 free throws per 36min, to Jackson’s 3.4 per 36min. Career scoring averages per 36 min: Jackson = 17.5, Maggs = 20.5 (with some of his best scoring numbers coming in recent years).
More recently, Adjusted PER numbers were fairly similar last season. Jax came in right at league average with a 14.63 (average being set at 15). Maggs pulled a slightly better 16.25. Jackson’s numbers were abysmal when he played SF last season (which may be skewed because he was hurt much of this stretch). While at SF, Jackson had a PER of 12.9 (well below league average), and allowed his oppent to post a PER of 18.8 (well above league average). His net PER at the SF last season was -6.0, meaning he really hurt the Bobcats as a SF last season. Jackson played more as a SG in Charlotte, but 23% of the team’s minutes at SF are no drop in the bucket, especially when he looked to be playing much more SF in the coming season. Maggs, played almost exclusively as a SF last season, 31% of the Buck’s game minutes and some minor time at PF and SG. While at SF, Corey posted a PER of 16.8 and allowed his opponent a PER of 13.7, with a net PER of 3.1. This means that the SF spot was generally a plus for the Bucks while Corey was on the floor. At least that’s what the stats say. His opponent PER was probably kept low with the help of elite team deffense, but the numbers are making Corey look like a right champ compared to Capn’ Jax.
So did a horrid offense get worse as a result of this deal? Hardly. We all knew that Jax, despite his charism and occasional ability to take over games, was also an inefficient chucker. We traded away our inefficient chucker, for an efficient chucker. Start Maggs, and Tyrus Thomas (who was inexcusably held on the bench at the begining of last season), factor in the possibility that Kemba Walker may already be better than D.J., and the offense actually gets better next season.
Is this a team that should win many games? No. It’s a team that should be playing for the Harrison Barnes Sweepstakes. Is it fundamentally a worse team than the one that suited up after the Gerald Wallace trade? No. Not at all.
by Basketball Rambler on Jul 14, 2011 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
+1
Well stated
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 14, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 14, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
+1,000,000
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 14, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with most everything...
But there is no way Walker is ready to run an NBA offense or distribute like Augustin can, and Tyrus Thomas has to get over his injuries and inconsistent play to earn a starting spot.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats how I feel...
I still think we trade Augustin for D.Fisher or some vet PG and a first rd pick. Like Toney Douglas. Maybe Billups…
I don't see what a player like Fischer would do for us.
And I also don’t see why we would trade Augustin now that he’s proven himself as an above-average starter at PG.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Im all for DJ…but it seems that we are running with Kemba out the gate. Once he scores 14pts in one game, he’ll start. Im sure of it. And thats if he doesnt start from the jump. Fisher is a vet PG and the Lakers have a glaring need for 3pt shooting, youth and a PG. DJ is 14 and 6 player. This is a match made in Heaven. Now it doesnt exactly have to be Fisher but that would fill a need and it seems possible. I could also see Toney Douglas, Andre Miller, Johnny Flynn or Dragic and a 1st rd pick for Augustin. He would fit perfectly in all of these situations…and since everyone wants to stockpile picks, expiring contracts and youth. This works. Augustin is ready to start. I cant see him sitting and being happy. Plus his value is very high and it wont be high at all at the deadline. Lets get a pick for him.
I don't really see his value as being all that high.
And I’m certain he won’t net us a pick that will bring a player of his caliber back.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Really good read
As a basketball fan in general, Maggette simply hasn’t been on my radar, so I can only take everything I read about him with a grain of salt, and hope that he exceeds the expectations that I’ve gathered from the masses thus far.
Newton for '11 ROY!
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for '11 DPOY!
I do that with any player we get...
Silas and staff can work wonders…look at Kwame
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 14, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, they turned him into a below-average starting center!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
From a below-average role player.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 15, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I would much rather see what dante cunningham can keep doing
at the 3 spot. and I would assume paul silas would too. dont expect corey magette to be this teams go to guy bu any means. sure its stated he will start, but he kinda has to, what with the salary and all.
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
Oh God No...
I’d rather have James Posey or QRich playing than Cunningham. Or Mike Pietrus
I'd give Cunningham the call
I think a season under Silas…good things
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 14, 2011 9:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Give me one reason other than "he's from Villanova" on why you hate him so much.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 14, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
His name bears a similarity
to cunnilingus, except, let’s face it, the latter is a lot more fun than the former.
by Tim Rudisill on Jul 14, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Little production, little upside.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Says who?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 15, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Plenty of people that aren't you.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Did you need to go there?
Well your wrong because most people on this site besides you and Focus like him.
I wouldn't go that far
I don’t think the ceiling for DC is very high but I’m okay with a 1 year, $1 million deal for him. Not much to lose in that scenario. We can’t afford to do something stupid and sign him to a “Matt Carroll” contract though.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 15, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course bringing him back as an RFA is fine.
But he’s not anything more than a deep rotation player.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
and Im not so sure about 1mil…we can get better for that mil than Cunningham…
Doubt it.
That’s a minimum-salary palyer.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No way those guys take cuts that big to play in Charlotte.
Evans-$2.5 mil last year
Parker-$2.9
Williams-$3.4
Green-$4.0
And while Novak or Pavlovic might take the minimum, they probably aren’t any better for this team than DC.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
They can shoot
and Novak is a pretty good rebounder. Not so much Pavlovic. Yep and Evans and Parker wont be getting that much again. Especially not Parker. He’s 35. But he has a good character and brings everything that we would get from a Shane Battier except the big name. Willie Green is young so maybe he’ll probably stay in that range. Shawne Williams on the other hand made 854k last season. I dont know if he had some extention that Idk about but his salary was 854k. Now he may garner a few more thousand bucks than Cunningham but he’s more of a contributor than Cunningham ever will be…Evans and Parker would be my first choices bc they have alot left in the tank. They go under the radar. They can shoot, play above the rim, and wont get what they got this season at all…maybe about 500k more than Cunningham but so what. They bring alot more to the table…
You have your opinions on the qualityof those players, I have mine.
But I can say for sure that Parker is nowhere CLOSE to the defender Shane Battier is.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
We shouldn’t expect him to be much more than a 10th man.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 15, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he could be a little better than that.
But we certainly don’t want him getting more than 10 or 12 minutes a game.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
1 million really isn't that much at all.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, its damn near a minimum deal.
So even for a 10th man (which he is better than), its pretty much average.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 4:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
not really...
what he got last year wouldve been perfect bc its not like anyone was gonna overbid us…
Before his arrest
There was certainly going to be competition for his services.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 4:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ha...
Yeah right. No-name RFAs hardly EVER get offer sheets.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Check the damn rumor sections if you think I'm making stuff up.
He’s not as “no named” as your personal opinion would like to believe Michael.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha...the rumor sections!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha....Michael's opinion!
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You're starting to become as biased as Focus.
I like how all of the sudden a 24 year old tweener has no room to improve at all because you say so. And little production? Are you still paying attention to his stats in Portland? Like you tried to do when you said Batum was a scrub and were basing that totally off his rookie numbers? Not paying attention to the fact that Portland absolutely refused to part with him, even for a deal that could’ve brought back Melo? What is production to you? Over his last 8 games the man averaged 13 points here. No one is saying he is going to be a superstar, but thinking he’s nothing more than a “deep rotation player” isn’t fair to him either. But you’re one of those guys that only look at stats and don’t pay attention to the actual games so I won’t even get into this with you. I know Cunningham can be a good player off the bench and he’ll prove that next year. But he’ll never put up LeBron stats, so he’s a scrub. Fine.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think its unfair to call me biased when I’ve named players wayyy better. And Im blasted with “they arent worth this or that” or “they wont make the team better” blah blah. The players I’ve mentioned are in the same age range. But Im supposed to be supportive in Cunningham who hasnt done anything. I wish we would stop naming the “free ball” portion of our season. None of those games really proved anything as far as production to me. So I dont think Cunningham is worth 1mil. You say it isnt that much but when you are rebuilding and trying to save money, it is. Especially when its given to a player like Cunningham. Cunningham is NOT a rookie. So we are not judging him on his rookie season.
Because most of the people you constantly bringing up
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Are
Scrubs or haven’t done anything in their careers to suggest they are superior to anyone in the league. Whether it was “free ball” or not, it was still professional basketball. I mean, we signed him back to apparently the front office and coaching staff share my opinion more than yours. He has potential. I’m going to just leave it at that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nick Young, Jordan Crawford, Marcus Thornton, Wilson Chandler, Reggie Williams, Shawne Williams are scrubs? Ok.
This was posted before you posted that half a page down...............
Third of all, the players you constantly mention who aren’t scrubs such as Wilson Chandler and Marcus Thornton will command a lot more money than you realize.
Shawne Williams is a scrub, yes, no matter how much you want to believe he is great. Steve Novak is also a scrub. There are a host of other scrubs you have brought up as well but we all know who they are.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 17, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Dante Cunningham is a scrub
Shawne Williams was a 7 and 4 player last season in 20min per game. Not only that but he was playing for a contending team. In the classic Knicks vs BOS game 3, he dropped 17pts 6reb 2asst 2blocks 2stls. He is far from a scrub. Now I know the statisticians of this site will go try to compare stats but the FACT is this: Cunningham basically started the last 10 or so games. So he got 36 minutes to boost his numbers. Williams barely ever played 30min and still had better stats. They were paid basically the same thing. Shawne his a a better skillset also. And he can actually PLAY SF and not just “fill in to the best of his abilities” like Cunningham. He can also play PF. He can hit the 3, rebound, bring the ball up the court, he’s a better defender. In starter minutes Williams wouldve done better than everyone except Augustin. So I cant see how you say he’s a scrub.
Whoa whoa whoa!!!
The Knicks were contending? When? I don’t need the stats to show me Williams is a scrub. He’s been around for years and hasn’t done a damn thing. 7 and 4 is that impressive to you? The Knicks roster was in shambles after having to trade away their whole squad for Melo. He’s not getting heavy minutes on a true contender. I don’t know what it is with you underrating Bobcats and overrating everyone else, but about 95% of the rest of the world will tell you different. I’m not getting into it though.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 17, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The Knicks arent a contending team? 7 and 4 is good stats for a player who basically caps out at 20mins. He’s been consistent ALL SEASON. Not just during free ball. This is with Gallo, Wilson, and Felton on the squad too. Shawne Williams has been outta the league for a season or two also. You act like he was some player that played when Derrick Brown got minutes. He wasnt. He played behind Wilson and Gallo consistently. I agree the Knicks wouldve been better had that not made the trade but that has no bearing on Shawne Williams stats. Dante played full games and starter minutes since the deadline and couldnt cut it. Plus lets not forget that Williams can play 3 positions while Dante can barely play one…sheesh (and everyone was scared of drafting Morris for the same reason.)
Give Williams
the minutes that Dante got last season and you’re looking at a highly sought after FA
we went over this before
Williams was in camp before the season started, we let him go. I will agree he is more fluid and seems more talented than Cunningham IMO, but he is known for having trouble off the court and being a head case on the team. I hope he changed his ways, but for some reason the FO did not give him a shot on the team. Blame it on Larry Brown or Higgins if he continues to keep his nose clean and produce for someone else.
ezrock
The Knicks BARELY finished over .500.
Is that really what you call a contender Focus?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
When that mark gets you the #6 seed, yeah.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So sixth seeds who barely finish over .500 are contenders in your book.
Thank you for sharing your basketball knowledge with us MP.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Now if you want to discuss “CHAMPIONSHIP contenders,” they’re likely not there, but contenders period? Sure.
Contender
noun
1. One who struggles in opposition
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Nice
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 19, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
look at the star power of the squad. After a season together and the Celtics/Magic in limbo. Who else is a contender. A team with Melo and Amare isnt a contender?
They barely finished over .500
and were swept out the first round. If you’re going to label someone a contender then I expect much better than that. It’s not about what they can do, its about what they did. Personally, I don’t think the knicks will ever be contenders as long as Mike D’antoni is their coach. They may be true contenders next year or the year after, but they weren’t last year. Having superstar players is only one piece of the puzzle.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 5:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And since you want to talk about "free ball" so much,
I guess you can say the entire season for the Clippers, Wolves, Kings, Cavaliers, and several other teams were “free ball” because they were never in the playoff race.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it has less to do with the playoff implications than it does the fact that our entire team was hurt.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok. If you say so.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No it wasnt free ball. We sat JAX. That was to NOT make the playoffs. Its crazy how everyone said “sit Jax and lets get a good pick”…now all of a sudden its “we tried to make the playoffs”…we didnt. We tanked.
Funny how in one thread
You can acknowledge the fact that Jax and his bad hammy were doing more harm than good and the next you call it purposely tanking.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 5:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They made the playoffs. I'd say that's contending.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
So I guess we were contending the year before too.
Smfh.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so you're talking about playoff contenders.
I’m talking about championship contenders.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
in the eastern conference. (which we tend to forget) a 6th seed isnt far from being the number one seed with one or two not even HUGE adjustments. Think about the Bulls. Think about the Magic. Think about the Cavs. Amare and Melo with a decent SG is not far from being EC champs. No one is guaranteed being a champ. But its not far out of the question for them being EC champs. “Rumor” has it that JRich, JR Smith, Wilson Chandler are some of the names that may fill that SG void.
The Knicks are going to have to learn
To play good team defense before I’ll ever consider them a contender, superstars or not. I’m not saying they are a terrible team, the talent is there. However, at no point past year were they a true threat. Maybe with a training camp under their belt, they’ll be the team we know they can be.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 5:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's talking about the definition of what a contender is.
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 19, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm paying attention to his mediocrity as a player.
Of course he had some decent production down the stretch for a bad team that simply needed bodies. Perhaps you figured an NBA team down to its last eight players would only score about 35 points because that’s their season average?
P.S.: Batum has shown himself to be a league-average starter, or perhaps a bit below. That’s not something worth coveting. But he’s on his rookie deal, so he’s cheap, thereby encouraging Portland to keep him around. Not like trades really prove who is and isn’t valued league-wide or is a good player. Shaq was traded, what, three or four times over the last ten years of his career.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so we're throwing out the stats of players that are on
bad teams because their production means nothing in the end. Gotcha.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
No, we're suggesting that players who are forced into heavy minutes are likely to have their numbers inflated artificially.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is looking at his numbers and saying that he should be a "star"
from it Michael. We’re looking at his numbers and saying that if he can do that over the full course of a game, then he should be able to contribute if given 10-15 minutes a night, which is what will happen. I’m looking forward to having him as a role player as opposed to the Najera, Carrols and Diops of Bobcats past.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's the thing:
Given his talent level, he’s going to be that deep in the rotation (barring injuries), and as such, he’s not going to produce any more than the guys you listed.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The key difference is he's still very young.
Like I say, I’m not looking for him to come out and dominate. I don’t think he’s “great” by any stretch of the imagination. But for someone to constantly complain about us offering a QO to someone who won’t be getting heavy minutes is confusing. We could have done much worse with his roster spot.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never complained about resigning him.
I just doubt he’s worth keeping around after next year.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think he's worth
keeping around for THIS season.
I think he'll do better than you expect,
but if he flounders, I totally agree.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Esp heavy minutes on a team thats tanking
its a difference in trying to get in at the end of the season and tanking at the end of the season. The situation is totally difference than the Rockets playing the last 8 games and the Bobcats playing the last 8 games…
I agree.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I went the exact same place he did.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like Michael Procton and Focus...........
who else?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
He doesnt have the skillset of a SF
its ok that he played with “hustle and effort” and I dont take that away from any player. Though, he doesnt play like a SF. He doesnt dish well, doesnt move well without the ball, cant shoot the three AT ALL. He basically has the same attributes as White. But I like White bc he’s a PF and he plays like a PF. We couldve spent that on a Amp Parker/Mo Evans (vet that will be cheap). They both can score and rebound. The can hit the 3 and finish strong at the basket. Nor will they require a multi year contract. You get a good character player (I dont care how “young” we are trying to get, you will always need a veteran presence. Someone who’s been to the big stages). I just dont see the purpose for the RUSH to sign Cunningham. He didnt wow me at all. I know he had a big game at the end of the year but when you’re on a team that isnt going to make the playoffs, its common for an below avg player to have a big game here and there…
I'd rather pay Cunningham $1 million than pay Posey $7 million
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 14, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So is Cunningham
Assuming he accepts the qualifying offer. I’m not in favor of signing Cunningham to a long term deal though.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 15, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But why not get production and fill the needs (that are long forgotten all of a sudden) 3pt shooting, athletic players. We could easily get a vet for this amt. Im not a fan of him on the team at all…its a waste…
Focus, we don't want vets right now.
It’s the same reason why Crash, Nazr, and Jax are gone, and why Boris will be gone at the deadline. Richardson and Posey? For what? So they can come in and eat up minutes that should go to younger players with an actual ability to get better?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If we are going to pay a million dollars, during a rebuilding mode, then its important to have a vet on the squad that can help the players develop. To maintain direction. Im not saying a vet like Maggette. Im talking about a player that is motivation in locker rooms and can fill a need for a season. When I named Posey and QRich, that was moreso an insult to Cunningham. I wasnt serious. That was a hyperbole. But I do think we need a Mo Evans or Parker. I sure do. I do think we need at least two vets when rebuilding. To have a group of all young players isnt going to cut it. Never has.
Dude...
It’s 1 million dollars for 1 year during a time when your team is NOT going to be interested in signing vets to long term contracts. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable move to extend him the QO and keep him around for another year to see what he does.
I think you also might be missing out on locker room chemistry issues. Cunningham is a guy that hustles on every play and does everything within his abilities to win, those are very valuable attributes for young guys to pick up and in my opinion, that alone makes him worth the paltry 1 million he would eat away at Charlotte’s cap space.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
What makes you think that the vets (at least the ones I brought up) will need some longterm contract? Their’s would probably be about a year also. T-Mac is a better SG/SF and got the same thing Cunningham did. And we couldve waited. Its the money that bothers me but the fact that we didnt WAIT b4 resigning him was the killer…
It's not your money, stop worrying about it.
And I think you can still sign somebody like T-Mac if you really wanted to. This isn’t a Rashard Lewis type deal that will kill your future cap flexibility forever, it’s one guy making 1 million out of a salary cap that’s currently at 58 million. You’re literally tripping hard about an insignificant part of the bigger picture. In my opinion, the bigger picture is the suck – draft – contend method. You need to be a bottom feeder for a couple more seasons, stop thinking win now and start thinking about building a squad that can contend in a few years’ time.
I think this is probably falling on deaf ears though.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
I'd bet money it is
Funny part is I often read this only iPod, so I dont see the author of these posts until the end, but I can read the first 2 lines and can usually guess which ones are focus’s
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 16, 2011 8:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Lmao. Me too!
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 17, 2011 12:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Reminds me of a guy I used to work with
We would say he was “often wrong but never in doubt.” I think about that saying quite often in this forum.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 17, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
A few things
1) You have to extend a QO before July 1st so we couldn’t wait any longer
2) He’s not officially resigned anyway. He is a restricted free agent so if he gets an offer, we can choose to match it or let him walk. If someone offers him something stupid and we match it, then get mad. But for now, chill.
3) If he stays for just the QO, he’s basically on a minimum contract. How can a team who is paying Najera 2.6 million, Diop 7 million, Carroll 4 million for multiple years cause you to be so upset for extending a guy a minimum deal for one year? I find it borderline insane that it upsets you so much. I think it’s a non-story basically.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Who else would be?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
wtf?
Maggette was a great person to have in the locker room here
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
But what about on the court
I’m teasing
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 14, 2011 9:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Im happy to exchange Jax for Maggette considering we are rebuilding and got a Big Man out of the deal. Kemba and Biyambo are both nice pieces to start over with. We are in place to lottery again next year where we can draft a SF to replace Jax and Maggette. Then we will be young and talented at all positions. I think we came away better from the trade. We are a team of the future not today
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them." - George Bush
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Robert McCloskey
Agree with this
I think we came away better from the trade. We are a team of the future not today
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011.
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land!
Also agree
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 15, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Andrew, when was the last time you heard from Bruce?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 15, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Been a few weeks now...
Whatever the last article on TSP is that he wrote was the last I talked to him.
I haven’t heard much from him lately
:-(
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 15, 2011 4:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Isn't he the perfect player for a rebuilding team?
Maggette will provide the offense we desperately need, yet he lacks one thing Jack had: the winning gene. Maggette is a loser. I don’t mean to say this as an insult, but his teams don’t win. He’s always seemed to be more concerned with stats than winning. This Bobcats team won’t be good; we know that. We don’t want this team to be good, either, since the best case scenario is getting swept by the number one seed in the playoffs. If Maggette’s losing ways can continue for the next two years, we’ll get two very nice lottery picks and be set for the future. When Maggette’s albatross-of-a-contract runs up, we’ll be chock full of talent and his losing ways will be gone. Sounds perfect to me.
The "winning gene?"
Really? Stephen Jackson’s teams are exactly 350-346 (.503) in his career when he plays, and that number drops to 277-316 (.467) outside of his two years with San Antonio. I’d hardly call those stellar marks. In truth, we’ll get similar production, and a lot less negative press for techs, ejections, etc.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And the trade landed us Biyambo. So i look at it as We traded Jackson for our future. Maggette is being rented. Once the lottery comes we will draft his replacement.
"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them." - George Bush
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." - Robert McCloskey
Its not his fault he played for Charlotte. Without the Bobcats tacted on to his record, he’d be over the .50 mark or at least alot closer to it…Jackson was a huge part of that championship in SA… I really am not a person who cares about his techs. In most cases they are ticky tack and they only get called bc he’s JAX. The same way they call techs on Artest sometimes for no reason.
I have a question for you
Im sure you watched that Pacers game where Jax was clearly fouled and the refs did nothing. We would have won that game and it would have completely changed the playoff race. Dont you think if it wasnt Jax the foul would have been called and we would have won the game and maybe made the playoffs? Just something to think about.
I don't think that is a fair argument to make.
It had as much to do with the game situation as it did Jackson. Officials HATE to call fouls like that that turn the game when the play itself would not have been likely to do so.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But it was clearly a foul.
No question about it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but it doesn't get called plenty of time just because of the situation.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That's true.
However, I do believe if it was a superstar, that foul would’ve been called before it even happened.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it was bc it was Jax. Now I do agree with Mike about the situation but had that been Kobe or Lebron or even some “golden child” like Landry Fields or Grant Hill, it wouldve been called…
Exactly.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else and that was two free throws and a win
But that was one of the most astounding no-calls I’ve ever seen. At the time, I was pretty upset. But we weren’t going anywhere in the playoffs and we ended up with Kemba and Biyombo, so I’m happy now.
Disagree wholeheartedly.
That is one of the times where refs will absolutely swallow their whistle and let the players decide it on the courl.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? A huge part?
He had a PER of 12 and was 3rd in scoring and 4th in boards and assists.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I was never predicting any doomsday scenarios to begin with.
He’s not efficient, yes, and he’s not a great vocal leader, but he’ll basically bring the same production to the table as well as veteran savvy that’s only earned through years of playing the game in the Association.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
Yeah...
I just didnt see Biyombo being a guy we shouldve traded up for. Imma leave it at that. Not so upset about Kemba. I just hope we do the right thing with Augustin b4 we bury him behind Kemba and his VERY HIGH value decreases…the draft wasnt (to me) something that convinced me of Cho’s “genius”…resigning Cunningham was a minus. I’ll see what we do with the trades and FA bc passing any judgement…so far Cho’s impact so far is 5.5/10
Your view on Dante still doesnt make sense he is just a dang bench warmer we can get another FA
But Biyombo was expected to go as high as 5th so I dont see why taking him at 7 is that bad. And DJ will start unless Kemba enters beats mode.
Did we see this much
publicity when Augustin was taken? Nope. Kemba is the new face of the team. That is easy to see. Why would you sit the face of your franchise. Now he may not start from game one but he will play major minutes off the bench. Almost split with Augustin. Then he will gradually ease into the starting lineup. I also think Augustin will be traded before the season start more than likely. We’ll get good value for him as far as the draft.
You're serious?
You think a guy who wasn’t even drafted first by his own team and who has no above-average abilities other than scoring is the “face of the team?”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow you really have no faith in Kemba
Thats ok you will be eating those words once the season starts. No above average abilities, ha ever watched a UConn game?
He can't defend, he doesn't distribute, he doesn't rebound...
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I have watched....
He has shown quick hands on defense and a pretty good defensive IQ. He was not asked to focus on D at UCONN, but i see no reason with his abilities that he should not be a solid defender. The real knock about his “D” is taken because of his size. He is too short to guard SG’s. I think he will be fine on D once he adjusts to the game speed.
He DIDN’T distribute, would be a better way to phrase your criticism. He made some slick passes and, again, showed a good ball IQ, but again, that has not been a focus. It’s well known he was lacking people to distribute to (until Lamb started to shine, kinda, in the last month of the season) which makes “looking like a dime dropper” really hard. Unfortunately, we really don’t have anyone to distribute to either. One day, when we have the pieces, I’m confident he will be fine. And will look like the distribution depot.
As far as rebounding, well…..
If your PG does rebound, you have found the pot at the end of the bow. That’s like dissing your Center for having an ugly 3 point shot. Sure, but ok…
Dude! I hate Cam Newton! He can’t even tackle good! He’s gonna blow!
Haha. I understand your concerns, just playing the greener side of the side.
And again, one above average ability that he has shown is WINNING! That fire/leadership/drive/competitive spark is worth alot more than most will credit, I believe..
Walker won't just struggle against SGs.
He’ll have a hard time defending most NBA PGs, who will be taller, thicker, and stronger than he is. And he wasn’t a good playmaking PG at any time in his career, which lasted three years. As to the rebounding commentary, I was simply putting another thing which he doesn’t excel at. With regard to the winning business, how has that worked out for all the Duke players who win national championships and then do nothing in the NBA? Winning is a team effort. No player can do it on their own.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He is known for defense
He is actually one of the best passeres in the draft, he couldnt distribute at UConn because he was the main scorer, and what guards do rebound?
He was a three-year college player.
Never was an above-average distributor.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I get the same feeling you do with DJ
I don’t think he’ll be here past the deadline. I do agree with MP, however, that we likely won’t get picks for him. My guess is we’ll move DJ in a trade that helps us dump a bad contract, namely Diop or Carroll.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 15, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda like you said in your recent article?
http://www.tradestreetpost.com/2011-articles/july/wheeling-and-dealing.html
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 15, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree wholeheartedly.
I don’t think either one of them is necessarily destined to be much more than rotation players. However, Augustin does not have very high value for anybody right now. And I doubt Cho had a lot to do with the draft, puff pieces about how much he loved Biyombo or not. He got on board once most of the scouting was done.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 15, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He moved up for Biyombo
do I think it was an “amazing move”? No. I think the manuever to get to the 7th was better than what we actually did with the pick. Biyombo is the exact same player as Tyrus. That was Cho wanting to get a player he was a fan of rather than a player that would help us in the future. He is alright. I see him being much more than just a solid player. Maybe even a starter but it wont be a major impact. I could be wrong but I’d be surprised. We had the position to make something happen that would have made us even younger and productive (lets exclude my Hou conspiracy for a second). With a 7th and 9th pick, we drafted in spots we really didnt need help at all. We need wingmen. Sucessful teams have a roster full of wings. Look around.
You're still trying to analyze the roster as in to make it best for next year.
We don’t need to have a young PG, SG, SF, PF, C just for the sake of having one. I think we may have missed the boat on Leonard, but at the same time, if we’re really trying to acquire BPA for future moves, then there is nothing wrong with the pick. And I think that’s what Cho did. We’ll get our “wingmen” (because I know you don’t approve of Henderson) later down the road when have more cap space and picks to work with.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
How far down the road? How are we preparing for next offseason? We arent getting Dwight or Paul. So who’s on our radar? I just see us hoping and relying on faith to get us a Harrison Barnes. If we do get Harrison Barnes, then what? This offseason is the offseason for the wings. We arent gonna be good just because we get Barnes. Then we wait til the next draft? If we dont invest in our team when the opportunity presents itself, we are making a mistake. Then we have a bookoo of bucks in the 2013 season. But we spend that on who? When I name Chandler and Thornton, you guys say “FA dont wanna come to CLT” so is having Harrison Barnes gonna make players want to come here? Do we undercover tank again for 2014? When do we build a team that can compete? When do we let the players TRY to win. Suppose Kemba and Biyombo want to test FA markets by then? Eventually you have to build a team to let the boys have a chance to compete. No one wants to stay on a team (esp if they perform well) that is still rebuilding. When do we finally say its a WIN NOW situation.
For one,
I have never said free agents won’t be interested in coming to charlotte. They will go wherever the most money is. If the dollars are the same several other factors come into play such as playing time and chances at winning, but for about 95% of the guys, money comes first. Second of all, if you weren’t aware, we haven’t even had the opportunity to sign any of these people you refer to. I only point that out because I agree rebuilding teams should have veteran players around to assist with the transition. Third of all, the players you constantly mention who aren’t scrubs such as Wilson Chandler and Marcus Thornton will command a lot more money than you realize. And lastly, you are going to have to explain to me what is the true benefit of winning a few more games next year with these signings. We are not going to the playoffs regardless and even if we did, we are only setting ourselves up for the same mediocrity we are trying to escape. In every draft, the top 5 players or so are demonstrably better than the rest of the picks and we would be operating ass backwards worried about 3 more wins next year as opposed to positioning ourselves to draft a superstar the next.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 5:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
In a draft as fuzzy as this one, and with the overall lack of talent we have
You don’t worry about positions. You just stockpile the best talent available and this was a draft that was very weak at the wings.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 15, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
it wasnt that weak… Klay Thompson, Singleton, Hamilton, Brooks…all filled a need. Tho none would be starters instantly, they all were less of a risk than taking Biyombo…
I don't think the ceiling is very high for the guys you mentioned either
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
its not always about high ceilings. Sometimes is about contribution. Its not always “what they MAY BECOME in two or 3 yrs”…sometimes its about “what DO they bring to the table NOW”…Hamilton and Brooks were looked at as some of the few players from this draft that can give you close to 20ppg on a NBA level…not only that but they filled a need. We now have 5 PFs. 1 center. 1 SF and 1 SG and 2 PGs (which I feel Aug wont be here long)…Klay Thompson couldve easily been a 13.4.4 guy starting with the Cats bc of his versatility and shooting ability. I cant see either of our picks putting up those number in their rookie season. And of course that wont be his peak.
Please dont
say well “he wont put up those numbers for GS”…its two totally different teams that have two totally different caliber of starters in front of him. Steph Curry and Monta Ellis or whoever they decide to get for Ellis will be probably an B level or above player. Plus if Reggie Williams is resigned. While here he wouldve quickly jumped right into major minutes bc he’s probably just as good if not better than our SGs
I don't think bringing anything to the table NOW is that important
We’re rebuilding so bringing in someone that helps us win 28 games instead of 26 next season isn’t that big of a deal. I would argue it is more important how good they’ll be in 2 to 3 years. But honestly, it all depends on how good Biyombo and Kemba become and none of us know that answer.
I wouldn’t have been upset if we went Knight/Thompson with our picks but I don’t have an issue with what we did either. But I doubt highly Thompson, Brooks, or Hamilton will ever get anywhere near 20 ppg. In a normal draft, those guys aren’t seen as high prospects.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Neither were our picks. After Derrick Williams…anyone couldve went anywhere and I wouldnt have been surprised. I just thought we wouldve went another direction with our picks. And it is about what they bring NOW. Its not about how much they can improve our record. Everybody cant be developing at the same time. Some players have to be good already. There is NO team that all their players developed at the same time except the Thunder. And the only reason they are good is bc of Durant. Its a slim chance we see a Durant for a while. We also need to fill needs. Just because we EXPECT to have a high pick in the next couple drafts doesnt mean we’ll end up with anything over 12th. We have to be established somehow. The Thunder dealt Ray Allen and Rashard and Flip Murray at the peaks of their games to stockpile picks. We didnt do that nor do we have anything like that of value. So we cant just “draft players that I liked when I was a GM elsewhere”…we still need to drafting to fill needs. Not just positional needs but skill needs also. Because being a lottery team is still 14th pick. Doesnt do much good right? So Im just opposed to drafting players in hopes that our record isnt too good to miss out on Harrison Barnes. Instead of seeing an “athletic 3pt shooter with good perimeter D” and passing up on him
Amen.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
The ceiling was very high on Ajinca, May, and Morrison...
but how did that work out for us.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly…Im so tired of “high ceilings and potential” talk when drafting and selecting players. Its bullcrap. We need to start selecting players we KNOW are going to produce early. Im not saying throw everyone in the starting lineup but I’d hate to have a roster full of “lets wait til he develops, I bet he’ll be close to an allstar in 2yrs” bs….
I don't even care about producing early.
Just producing something at some point would be an improvement.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course
The one argument focus keeps making is that we have to wait a few years for Biyombo/Kemba to develop but if we drafted someone else (Thompson/Brooks/Hamilton), they would be lighting the world on fire. I don’t think so. If a team is expecting Thompson or Brooks to make an immediate impact, they’re in serious trouble. You’re probably waiting on everyone from this draft and it’s likely most will never make an impact. I just hope the guys we got aren’t on that list.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Word
Delusion ain’t just a river in Toledo. Ham/Klay/Morris/Brooks were taken where they were taken for reasons. If they were so obviously gonna rip it up, they would have been at the top of the board.
It’s funny, the hate and all. Folks can’t decide if they want butts or nuts?? I feel like the same stinkers who were spitting all the “gotta draft BPA or you’re dumb” and “we need scoring and big dudes” are the same clowners now telling everyone “we drafted players at spots we didn’t need” and " potential sucks". I’m soooo tired of that. Potential is what drafting is about. Of course it can be risky. That’s what it’s all about. We could draft cookie-cutter guys to fill spots, and 5 years from now when I look at our team and Marcus Morris is STILL putting up 12, 5, and 2 a game, I will cry. I would rather play to win and strike out that rest on my laurels. And just should one of your “solid known contributers” suck on the next level….what??…oh yes it can and probably will happen with a couple of them, then wouldn’t we feel douchy? Well…we passed on the Biz and K-Dub because we KNEW we would get solidly frustrating play out of Mr. Morris. I guess we never even thought about the chance that, like everyone else we have been dissing, he would ka-put too!!! Oh the floors in hell are icy! Dang it! Seems like we coulda/shoulda took a shot on those two other cats….
And how many times do we kick our own nuts with a frustrated Morris situation when Biz or Kemba are ripping it up for someone else?? I mean, who knows. I like the hand we were delt.
note: all references to our pick being used on Marcus Morris is purely speculative and his name is being used simply because even hearing about a Morris makes me vurp…Feel free to replace the Morris name with Klay Thompson for lesser reflux.
LOL
Although kicking our own nuts is something Bobcats fans have become quite good at over the years.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
You would prefer an Adam Morrison contribution (i.e. ZERO) over 12-5-2? I’d take the guy who’s actually giving you something.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing to prefer about ammo...
But as a general rule, if I have the #3 pick like we did, I would draft a high-potential player. I would not go for the sure thing mediocrity. You gotta play to win. And you gotta fall on your face sometimes to have a chance to jump back up. Can’t be afraid to fail. There are plenty “solid” NBA players, and every year you could draft a new handful, like we saw recently. But really??? A squad full of role players put us right back in the same rut.
by mives36 on Jul 18, 2011 7:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
U have to understand that these players are going to make an impact. Not only that but they will have a CHANCE to. Mark Jackson is promising the playoffs, will they get there? I doubt it but its not a stretch. So Klay Thompson will be expected to play at a high level and he’ll have plenty of chances to. Same thing with Hamilton. He is on a consistent playoff team. He will have to kick it into gear bc anything not in the playoffs will be a failure for Denver. This means something to the development of a player. They will be placed in situations where their development in a short time is crucial. This is the difference. If they dont perform, they have a strong chance of being traded. Whereas if Biyombo doesnt do as well, its “ok he’s still growing and has a high ceiling and in a few years blah blah rebuilding”…This automatically puts other teams over us bc while we have all these experiments, their players will know what its like to have a high expectation for the season. Which is just as critical to development as minutes. They are placed in a high level situation early. And both actually fit their team’s style fill a need for their teams. If they are only 6 and 4 players, this season, next season they will be breakouts bc of the level they HAD to play at the previous season. Playoffs means alot to development. Look at Felton. Look at DJ. Look at Nelson/Lee. They werent expected to be too much more than role players but since they were expected at a high level from jumpstreet, I expect them to make a decent rookie showing.
Sorry, I'm not buying a shred of this argument
You can either play or you can’t. Being drafted by a good team doesn’t guarantee you any more success. The Lakers last 2 first round picks were Javaris Crittenton and Jordan Farmar. Did they thrive due to the competition? In the last few years the Celtics drafted Avery Bradley and JR Giddens. Did they thrive due to being on the Celtics?
I know you’ll make another tired rebuttal to this post but this is probably the biggest stretch of an argument I’ve seen on this site. Let’s face it. You think they’ll succeed because you like them. Klay Thompson has a better change to succeed because he’s expected to play at a high level in Golden State? Huh? We all know the big lights of Oakland always bring out the best in rookies. The pressure may not be as high on a rebuilding team but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether a play flourishes or not.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You're missing the point
Avery Bradley and Farmar displayed what in college exactly? Nothing. And Im talking about lottery caliber players. Brooks, Thompson or Hamilton will not be 8th men caliber players. They will be 6th men. I cant see them being any less than that. If you look at every one of those teams, its easy to see they will have to be ready come season start to contribute. Of course Kemba and Biyombo will too but the difference is that our players are supposedly hopin not to win. While they will be playing for a goal of making the playoffs and Hamilton will be playing on a team looking to get out of the first rd. With their SKILLSETS already NBA ready, this will do much more for their development than playing to lose. This may stifle development in our already subpar roster.
We're not hoping to lose
Of course we’ll try to win as many games as possible. Realistically speaking, we’ll probably lose more than we win but I feel confident the Cats will be trying as hard to win as anyone else.
And if Hamilton and Brooks are lottery caliber players, explain to me why they were drafted in the mid-20s in what most people claim was the weakest draft ever. They may end up as 6th men or starters. So may Kemba and Biyombo.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 17, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Let me field this one...
They were drafted in the mid 20s because every other team was stupid and should have snagged them sooner…
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 17, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
ERRRRRNNNTTT
bc of the activity and the two surprise top 10 players…Leonard was to go 7th and probably would have. Tristan Thompson came outta nowhere. Jimmer was a reach….
So 2 "surprise" top 10 picks
Caused those guys to slide 15 spots? Glad you’re not my accountant.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 17, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
“bc of the activity and the two surprise top 10 players…”
the word “AND” is a conjunction. Im sure I included another factor. maybe I didnt. I’ll read it again…
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot about all of the "activity"
Makes sense now.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 17, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes you think our players aren't going
to give it their all when they step out on the floor?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 17, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesnt make sense to me
you guys confuse me. Do you want us to suck for draft picks or NOT? What if we get a decent record but like one game out of the playoffs? What if we do make the 8th spot. I mean this is the eastern conference. Its not a stretch to fathom an 8th spot. Then what do we do. What if Kemba can put up double digits? What if Tyrus finally blossoms? What if Maggette continues to get 18+ppg? What if Diaw actually works on conditioning with Parker, Pietrus and Batum? Then what? What if Kwame is a 10 and 7 guy? What if whoever we get as a cheap SG has a breakout season? Not to mention still having Augustin off the bench. Then what? Do you think our FO is gonna let us be too good? Is it possible that we sit down Maggette at the end of the season if we have a chance at the playoffs? What would you guys do? We cant have it both ways. Do we make coaching decisions to “hide” the fact that we’re tanking? Being in the eastern conference, it doesnt take much to make and 8th seed
We're going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst Focus.
D.J., Tyrus, Kemba, Bismack, Henderson, White, and Cunningham are all going to be given plenty of room to succeed next year. Maggette, Boris and the others will be slowly phased out of the team’s plans and be dealt around the deadline. And that’s even if we have a winning record at the deadline. You’re going to do what you have to do to give your best YOUNG players room to improve while simultaneously hoping that their improvement doesn’t cost you a chance at another valuable piece. Infusing the roster with veteran players that will damage both of those goals is the dumbest thing you can do while rebuilding a team. I really don’t see what’s so hard to understand.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 17, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
“do what you have to do to give your best YOUNG players room to improve while simultaneously hoping that their improvement doesn’t cost you a chance at another valuable piece”
so you want them to develop but if they do “breakout” then you HOPE they arent too good? And I would be surprised if Maggette is dealt at the deadline for something other than trash in return. While typing this, Im trying to figure what team would need him for a final push into the playoffs. And picking up a Mo Evans, , Kurt Thomas is NEVER a bad idea when rebuilding. No matter how bad you think we’ll have a team full of 3 to 4 yr players, its not gonna happen. There will be vets on the team to provide leadership and direction. Maybe they’ll be dealt along the way but its NEVER been a team full of 3 and 4yr players that didnt have a veteran. Spending 1 or 2mil on two vets has NEVER been a counterproductive idea in rebuilding. Kwame being 30 is not what I mean either. I mean players that have played at high levels and been to the big dance are valuable on any roster.
I'm with you on the veteran thing
Even our early teams had guys like Steve Smith, Juwan Howard, and Derek Anderson. It makes sense to have one or two veterans to help groom the young guys. Most of the minutes should go to the young guys though.
And we should never try to lose. We just need to live or die with our younger players and let them develop. If they really shine and we make the playoffs, that’s great. I certainly wouldn’t complain. That would mean that maybe Kemba, DJ, Hendo, and Tyrus are taking off and we may not need a lot more pieces. But I never advocated us not trying to win. I just don’t expect it.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 17, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you Focus on the what if we win bid
I don’t think were as bad as we would like to be. That is a problem the FO is hoping they don’t have to deal with. Like charlote bobcat suggested that the FO would trade Maggette if he’s doing well and helping us win, because his value would be up for a contending team to take a chance on him. But the catch is if the draft pick don’t work out for what ever reason, it would look like a giant blunder and that would set the franchise further back. If we have a full season the FO will most likely have to deal with that type of situation.
ezrock
Exactly.
When the season starts, I’m not going to be coming to the game threads and commenting about how HAPPY I am to be losing because of what we’ll have to look forward to next year. I’ll still hope for us to win every game that we play. It’s just not realistic that we’ll be very good right now and I realize that not being that good right now opens up doors for us to be great later, so losing becomes bittersweet instead of downright bitter like it was when we knew we had no draft picks to make things right.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
This is why for US Im suggesting to try another method in rebuilding. For some reason we have gotten the idea that OKC’s model works for everyone and is the best. To me its the Nuggets. Get players on that contributed that are one their rookie contracts. Different teams should have different models. At the end of the day its about winning. What do we do when all our growing players begin to demand big time contracts? This is something that OKC should prepare for bc its def gonna happen with Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins. They are already paying Aldrich, Collison longterm deals. Thats why I think its beneficial to lock up an allstar caliber prospect when the time presents itself. You cant have a roster full of rookie deals. Unless you expect half of them to suck and not want more money once their rookie contracts are up.
Like I've said several times Focus,
the guys that you mention are going to command A LOT more money than you realize and right now we’re not in the space to sign them to the long term big money contracts that they’ll demand. We’ll get all of that done next year.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 19, 2011 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Brevin Knight was a GREAT teammate who was also able to contribute on the court at a low cost.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not talking about picking up vets for 1 or 2 million who will come
in and know their roles and help mentor the young kids Focus. I’m talking about vets like T-Mac and others that you mention would come in for “extra cheap” but won’t do anything but take away shots from the people who need them. It’s the same reason Iverson was never brought in. And like I said, you HOPE for the best. You HOPE D.J. can come in and drop 20 on any given night. You HOPE Bismack turns into a defensive monster and Kemba is an able PG. You HOPE Tyrus gets his head on straight and Henderson, Cunningham, and White continue to build on what they had started at the end of the year last year. And if they do, GREAT!!! If they don’t, this is a rebuilding year anyway. Either way, you don’t abandon your plan for starting over just because you see a glimpse of hope. You still ship out Boris and Maggette for whatever you can get and prepare to put your roster in place next year. No one is going to go out there on any given night and lay down and let the other team win. No matter how much the coaches or front office want it, players have way too much pride to ever let that happen. If we make the playoffs this year as an 8th seed, great. That means we’re ahead of schedule. If we miss them, that’s what we expected and will have the opportunity to add another piece because of it. Kwame is one of the veterans who will be kept because he is still fairly young, doesn’t eat up shots, is very cheap, and still improving. That’s not the case for the other old guys on the squad. I’ve never, not one time objected to signing someone like Mo Evans or Battier or even Anthony Parker to our squad. I’m talking about the guys who will either come in and try to take over or command too much money.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
That's what the plan looks like to me also
If we bring in all these middle of the way guy’s we will make the playoffs or the FO will spend all their time shipping other players out that are younger and cheaper, which will leave us with less cap room and draft picks guaranteed to be in the mid teen and low 20’s. We might as well have kept GW, Jax and done the same thing. Which is going nowhere but winning games. 7th 8th seed no better and be years older.
ezrock
No one will be cheaper than
Amp Parker or Mo Evans. You want them for the mental part but they also can produce in the areas we are trying to improve in. They do everything well and will fall under the radar. Thats what we want. Signing them wont hurt and add some production to a offensively challenged squad. Mo Evans and Parker are players that we HOPE Hendo can develop into (with more playing time equals more points of course) but if you look at his player comparisons, thats who he is. The only thing we need from him is a 3pt shot and a consistent midrange and fearlessness. These are two players (not the only, just my favorites and they make sense) could help him develop into more than a Bogans or Sefalosha type player. Which he may become if he doesnt develop a shot.
I have no problem signing either of those guys.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 19, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL...really?
Henderson is a better player than Evans or Parker ever were right now.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't get him started on Henderson.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 20, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
lol I dont think he believed that one himself..
but hey, whatever to keep the site goin
Felton? Really?
Felton was a top-five pick. He was supposed to be a borderline All-Star.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree.
I think each of the players are able to bring something to the table right now without the questions Biyombo and Walker bring. Hamilton can rebound and score in the post. Brooks is a solid defender and has a mid-range slashing game that’s probably almost as good as Henderson’s was coming out of Duke. And Thompson is a deadeye shooter who won’t be swallowed up by defenders twice his size.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
So which pick do you hate Michael?
Kemba, Bismack, or both?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 18, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really like either.
I don’t think Biyombo really fills a need, and his game is so raw that it’s possible he’s a total flop. Walker can score, and we need that, but we already had a young, developing PG in Augustin, and there are big questions about Walker’s size on both ends. I also thought we should have gotten more for Jackson.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that's where the front office's work comes into play.
They know a lot more than we do and apparently see a lot of potential in Biyombo. I won’t go back and forth about who we should have taken because personally, I would have probably gone a different route, but we’ll just see how it all turns out.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 19, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Best plan is to watch and see...
not like any of us can make the call and something different will happen
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 20, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, exactly.
I’ll reserve judgement on Bismack and Kemba until they are able to show me what they got in an actual NBA game. I may end up saying that I hate the picks eventually, but I think Cho has done his homework and these two will be able to contribute greatly.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 20, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Their track record is not sufficient for me to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you think I've been doing for the last eight years?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What alternative do you really have other than griping?
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 20, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What's wrong with Cho's track record exactly?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 20, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
he wasnt the “man” behind the OKC rebuilding. So lets not jump out the window about how HE was the mastermind. But his track record isnt a bad one. We got swindled for Wallace (but I think that was just dumbness of Higgs and MJ). But what really matters (the bobcats) was yet to be seen.
Swindled??? WHAT?
The Bobcats didn’t get anywhere NEAR enough for Wallace.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think MP is referring to...
Biyombo and Walker’s track record in the NBA…which is none
But maybe I’m reading it wrong
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 21, 2011 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
I was talking about Jordan and Higgins.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing. I believe strongly in his ability.
But I feel like he was brought on too late to have much influence in the draft.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Cho was scouting Oden when he was still in Portland
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 22, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
...which has what to do with us?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 24, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just trying to contribute...
Charlotte Bobcat said…“I think Cho has done his homework and these two will be able to contribute greatly”
Then at a later point you said…
“But I feel like he was brought on too late to have much influence in the draft.”
I was stating that Cho has reviewed Charlotte’s team prior to the Wallace trade, looking for pieces, and had been scouting Biyombo, prior to departing Portland, so perhaps he saw a need that would make Biyombo fit on a team like Charlotte.
Just trying to draw conclusions that Cho knows…
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 25, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just didn't know how Greg Oden facotored in.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He was referring to Greg Oden's penis
Cho thought it had tremendous upside potential.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 25, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
I have no doubt of that.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I knew Sean May's fat ass would eat himself out of the league. They apparently didn't.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 20, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You have no idea who is going to produce
Are you a psychic?
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Not well
Although I think most of us had major reservations about a couple of those picks. Ajinca was only getting like 8 minutes a game off the bench in some obscure French league so that was doomed to be a disaster. Thanks again Larry.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Jul 16, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
AA was a mistake too, if I remember right...
I want to say, quick off of memory alone (no source) that we made the deal for that pick with the hope of a different player being there (I think it was actually JJ Hickson??) and said player was snatched right before we were on the clock. AA/Frenchie was an “oh crap, I guess know we will reach for…..”
The move up for Biz seemed calculated and well studied. I have much more faith.
And actually, if I remember right….Sean May would fall more into that “sure thing solid contributer” class that has been paraded. Everyone thought for sure he would put up solid numbers, the question was whether his health/size and physicality would let him reach a higher ceiling. May had just come off championship season where he looked like a Jared Sullinger type and put up consistent numbers. Sean May was more Marcus Morris (puke!) than Biyombo.
U may not like Morris but its not even a equal comparison. Morris can handle the ball, shoot the outside shot, rebound down low, finish strong under the basket. And is in terrific shape. We can all front like Sean May was in such great shape coming out of college but thats not true. He was always a big boy. Biyombo COULD be Tyrus Thomas or Ben Wallace. But you know what you are getting out of Morris’ and Thompson and Hamilton. You dont have to speculate on what they will be in 3 and 4yrs. That is the difference. Of course they will get better in certain areas as the years go on bc of the high level they will be playing at from the get go but their skillsets dont have to be worked on. Maybe tweeked here and there but not vastly improved. None of them are considered “raw” which translates to “huge risk”…
We hoped for Hibbert, actually...
But that just goes to show that the initial trade for Denver’s #1 at 20 was a bad move in the first place.
And May was regarded as a potential star, particularly by the Carolina fans around. He was coming off a Final Four MOP performance, and he was seen as a guy who could be a monster rebounder while also having a versatile offensive game.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wish I would've read that before I wrote what I wrote above.
I totally agree.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with you about Cho's influence on that move.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Biyombo is nothing like Tyrus.
He’ll actually play the post.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 16, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
@Focuslja
Im so sick of you saying that Bismack is the EXACT same player as Tyrus. They are nowhere near exact exact, for one, Bismack is much more of a center than Tyrus. He is an inch and a half taller and has a wingspan that is superior by 8 inches. Second of all, Bismack has much more potential and much more athleticism. He also is better in the pick an roll game, so before you call Tyrus the same player, compare the two. I also think you’re overrating T-Time. After all career averages of 8 points and 5 boards don’t blow me away, and wouldn’t you agree that Tyrus and Bismack will be power forward and center.
Tyrus has a LOT to prove to me this year...
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 15, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was fed up last season...
I may be wrong in how I judge players but I start from day 1. Which then he was on the Bulls. So I didnt start judging him when he got here. I started in Chicago. Im done. I dont mind us starting Biyombo from day one as long as we find a taker for Tyrus. I mean the plan is to stink anyway (at least thats what 99% of our fans want except me). And I dont see the reason for keeping Tyrus and Biyombo on the same team…
No…Bismack from what I have seen in the reels would be better suited at PF. This isnt wherever he was playing. This is the NBA. There are the ChuckWagons of the world but those arent guys we should be aiming for. Undersized centers dont normally make it to the dance. I say he’s a PF. I know about his wingspan but thats not enough to differentiate a center and PF. Height and Weight are important also. You said Biyombo has “potential and athleticism”….this was the exact thing people have been saying about Tyrus the whole season.
by focuslja on Jul 16, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely.
Biyombo will be destroyed by true centers with a low post game because he simply doesn’t have the bulk. Isn’t that one of the things that constantly got Okafor criticized.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Assuming what hip he leaps off of
players like Blair and Blake Griffin (noticed I named PFs) can lean on that hip. Griffin with superior leaping ability and Blair with better technique. Imagine when he plays the Chandlers and Dwights. Or Imagine the high energy guys like Noah and Evans. I hope we get something for Tyrus and let Biyombo stay at PF.
How much bulk does he need?
Isn’t he pushing 250?
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 16, 2011 8:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Okafor is 6'10", 255; Biyombo is 6'9", 240.
Again, wasn’t Okafor criticized for his lack of bulk and strength? Further, Biyombo may be 25 and has been playing professionally for several years, so it’s not like he’s going to do a lot of growing.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Biyombo is 6'9 with arms of a guy above 7 feet
And has INCREDIBLE leaping ability. He will be more then fine at center, and there is no way his offense is passable for a PF. At center it can at least be masked
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
They may be...
But it will be because we have no options, not because it’s a good idea.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't wait to start seeing more posts...
From more than the same couple folks…with their broken records…
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 16, 2011 8:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Dont kid yourselves
Jackson is way better then Maggette, youll see. Hes a good guy and he’ll impress early but then youll get tired of him and try and deal his contract
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Well I just Read an Article about Silas Saying DJ and Kemba
Could spend alot of time on the court TOGETHER. I guess kinda like the Nuggets did with Felton and Lawson or DAL did with Barea and Kidd. This may be kinda beneficial but, with both of them being undersized it has its disadvantages. Silas also said he’d implement a zone defense when they do play together which made me feel a lil better about the idea. We’d probably get more offense with Kemba and Augustin on the floor at the same time. Also included in the article was fact that SILAS DID NOT RUN ANY OF HIS OWN PLAYS!!! (i had to put that bc the “they’ve already had time under Silas’ system” was an argument that was constantly used against me)
Is there a way to hide certain peoples posts here so that reading the same old arguments becomes less redundant?
by Mike in KM on Jul 17, 2011 10:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It would be nice wouldn't it?
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 18, 2011 12:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I must have missed...
…folks using the “Silas System” argument against you. Best I can recall, we have stressed over and over that Silas let the guys run fairly free and shoot, but he did what he could with the old LB system. I also recall that we stressed there were no set plays for Hendo…specifically because it was LB-Ball, not “Silas System”
I even can remember talking about the enthusiasm of seeing his we look with this new system installed. I personally wondered if it would be similar to the Golden State model with Ellis and Curry on the floor. At te same time.
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Jul 18, 2011 12:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think the comparison can be made with those other twin PG lineups.
In Felton and Kidd, those teams had a bigger guard who could match up with the other team’s 2 on the defensive end. Neither Walker nor Augustin come close to fitting that bill.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
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