Make this deal with Orlando
by Bassnote on Feb 9, 2011 8:54 AM EST
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When February 18th comes around, I am hopeful that we hear trade news from the land of the Mouse. On that date, Jason Richardson and his huge expiring contract can be traded. Orlando has cast their lot with Arenas, and it's not working out yet. Howard has put them on the clock to get a championship if they hope to keep him from moving in the not to distant future. The Magic need some extra fairy-dust to make the jump from good to great.
So I propose dealing Jax and Diaw for Ryan Anderson and J-Rich. If they want Wallace instead of Jax, they'd need to include a 1st round pick.
Why for Charlotte? We get a quality young PF, the guy we should have drafted instead of Ajinca, to carry into the future with Tyrus at the 4 spot. J-Rich returns to replace Jax at the 2, share time with Hendo depending on matchups, and bring MJ the sweet salary relief he seeks after this season. Why for Orlando? Jax is playoff proven, tough, and would be on his best behavior with the possibility of a championship in front of him. Diaw provides Orlando with a dynamic big with skills that compliment Howard and everyone else..the kind of guy as a starter or off the bench who can make the difference with a team so close to being great versus pretty good.
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Out with the bad Old, in with the good Old
- Rufus on Fire, where even the signatures hold significance
by T-TIME, I MEAN DUNK TIME on Feb 9, 2011 9:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
which pieces?
Out with the bad Old, in with the good Old
- Rufus on Fire, where even the signatures hold significance
by T-TIME, I MEAN DUNK TIME on Feb 10, 2011 1:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hell no (no disrespect)
Orlando comes out as championship contenders after the deal while all we get is saved money and a decent role player. For Boris and Jax/Wallace, I expect a much better package as they are both superior to the players they would be traded for.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 9, 2011 9:31 AM EST reply actions
You think Jax is better than Jason Richardson? I don’t think that’s even close. J-Rich is scoring 16.5 PPG on .453 and .390 shooting, while Jax is 18.9 on .408 and .339. Jax is the better ball handler and probably a better defender, but Richardson is easily the more valuable player and that’s before taking their contracts into consideration.
Diaw isn’t worth much in trade either, and Aisander does a good job of comparing him to Anderson. I’d jump at this version of the trade but say no to including Wallace. A 1st round pick from Orlando isn’t worth much.
Jax can't handle the ball for shit. He has 2 turnovers per game where he mis-dribbles the ball
Out with the bad Old, in with the good Old
- Rufus on Fire, where even the signatures hold significance
by T-TIME, I MEAN DUNK TIME on Feb 11, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Everything Richardson is doing in
Orlando is irrelevant to me because I already seen how effective he can be as a team’s number 1 offensive weapon here before. And though he was able to average over 20 ooh here, we were still losing a lot more games than we are now. Jackson is easily a better player for this team.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 11, 2011 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Doesn't matter if he's a better fit in Charlotte
If you believe he’s more valuable to Charlotte than elsewhere, then you don’t trade him (unless you’re doing it to save money). But his value to the Bobcats doesn’t mean anything to the propective team trading for him. He’s a lousy fit for Orlando because he’s a very inefficient scorer. J-Rich is a much better fit for them so there’s no reason for them to trade.
Orlando is aiming for a title,
But doesn’t have a championship team. They are going to have to make a move somewhere. Richardson may be efficient, but they are not winning.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 11, 2011 8:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In case anyone hasn't watched Ryan Anderson play...
He’s a pretty big upgrade from Diaw. He has one bad game out of every 6 instead of the opposite. I think he’d be a ncie get for us.
That being said, I would never throw Wallace in this deal. Jax/Diaw for J-Rich/Anderson I would at least think about. But to me Wallace should bring more value than those two pieces. I actually think the Jax/Diaw trade would be a good move. I know everyone has soured-then-defended-then-soured on Jackson, but getting J-Rich for him would not be a bad move at this stage.
And the upgrade at PF would also be very much welcomed.
For reference: Per 36 Min. for 2010-11 season
Ryan Anderson: 19.7 pts – 9.2 rbs – 1.1 ast – .7 stl – 1.1 blk – 1.7 to
Diaw: 11.7 pts – 5.9 rbs – 3.9 ast – 1.0 stl – .7 blk – 2.4 to
Granted these are semi-hypothetical numbers based on per 36 minutes of playing, but this trade would be great for Charlotte. It’d give us two solid, young PFs once Tyrus comes back, both of whom can score and rebound in different ways.
It's both good and bad
when Boris Diaw is motivated, there aren’t a lot of forwards in the entire NBA with a more complete game
but I’d rather have above average play consistently than really great play 1 out of every 4 or 5 games and then merely average play the other games
Diaw's effect to me just can't be measured in numbers.
I like Anderson and Richardson, but I just don’t trust that our team would function the same or better with that combination of players involved. If I’m Jordan, I would consider the trade though since it serves all the Bobcats needs at this point of keeping us competitive and cutting costs. As a fan, I just don’t trust it though.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 9, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
The opposite of 1 bad game out of 6
is 6 bad games for every 1 game played. I’ll take that upgrade.
I like this trade
but I think we’d need a little more and a lot more if we trade Wallace instead
Agree that including Wallace would require more...
..but I doubt they’d send more than a 1st round pick, which they may consider too much. Jax in the deal is my suggestion anyway. Frankly Jax is a wild card that either becomes a key element to a championship run, or 1 more joker added to Arenas that doesn’t quite fit. In theory, I could see Jax & Diaw helping everything come together quite nicely for them.
To those who would bemoan our giving them some pieces for a run, who cares? We’re not contending anytime soon, not next year, not in 2 more years. By then Jax is old and finished, while Diaw either helped them win a championship or is allowed to wander away as a FA. Meanwhile we’re enjoying the high productivity of a young Ryan Anderson and using our flexibility to add players that can help us contend 3 to 4 years from now.
Well, if they aren't willing to take on future salary, Howard is getting no help...
…and he will leave as Shack-Daddy did years earlier. Nobody is giving the Magic some wonderful mix of cheap difference-making young players and an expiring for another expiring contract. As currently constructed, the Magic must win now or lose Superman.
I fail to see how Jackson + Diaw is better than Richardson + Anderson.
Jackson is a significantly better defender, but he is an awful option offensively. Diaw doesn’t give anything Orlando doesn’t already have, and his contract is terrible.
We have already experienced J-rich
In charlotte, and while being a talented offensive weapon, he is better served as a complimentary player. I know the numbers may not suggest it, but for a team like ours, Jax is a superior player to Richardson as is diaw to Anderson. Good players don’t always fit well together, and I think that would be the case if we made this trade. That’s taking nothing away from Richardson or Anderson. I would love to have them both.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 9, 2011 4:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well, he is a complimentary player in Orlando. Dwight is the focal point of the offense.
Anderson is a young player on a cheap contract, with tons of upside. Orlando says no even if Charlotte throws in multiple first round picks.
I know he's a complimentary player in Orlando.
Hence the reason why I think it’s best that he stays there. Jackson is the captain of the team and focus of the offense here. Richardson can’t handle those same responsibilities as effective. And Orlando says no even if Charlotte throw in multiple first round picks? Are you sure about that? Orlando would make this trade with no picks involved. For all the upside Anderson supposedly has, he’ll never be more than a role player on a good team in the league and Richardson’s true value lies in his expiring contract. Other than that, Jackson and Diaw are just better players.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 9, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Diaw is a better passer than Anderson. That is the only metric where he is a better player. Anderson scores more, shoots more efficiently, rebounds better, and turns the ball over less. Higher EVA and EWA in significantly less time played as well.
Jackson is a significantly better defender than Richardson, but is simply terrible on offense. Not especially his fault as the team he plays on needs him to eat a lot of possessions.
Jackson's inefficiency here I think
is due to there not being any other legitimate scoring threats in the lineup (other than D.J. recently.) With a player like Howard to take the attention off of him, I think Jackson would flourish, and that to me is the primary reason that players that a lot of other teams would probably label as scrubs (Anderson, Reddick, Jason Williams, Chris Duhon, Quentin Richardson) are able to put up big points. I’m not saying they are scrubs, but to me, all of their games have been elevated by playing with the man beast Dwight Howard.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 9, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Jason Williams was always pretty decent. Chris Duhon and QRich have been simply terrible on offense.
I don’t think anyone with any reasonable amount of basketball knowledge would call Anderson or Redick “scrubs”. They put up points because they are good scorers – they could start on a lot of teams.
Reddick is a good shooter but only recently started adding to his game.
Other than that, he was another Kyle Korver/Jason Kapono waiting to happen. As far as Anderson, he’s still flying under the radar. The average NBA fan would call him a scrub. I know better though.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 9, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
why disrespect Kyle Korver
up until last season he was a superior player to reddick across the board
now i would say reddick’s d is better and reddick might be a better passer
but reddick still can’t really create his own shot while korver can and korver is a much better rebounder
Lol, I'm just saying, the primary reason
these players are in the NBA are they are superior shooters. If any of them are on a cold shooting night, they are pretty much out of the game completely.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 10, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
those arent
pace adjusted/posession adjust statistics
not to mention Orlando has a superstar while Charlotte doesn’t
insert Boris into that Orlando team and he would easily eclipse Anderson’s numbers by a large margin I would think
of course, you’d have to deal with him only playing hard 25% of the time
Even if we ask nicely? Charlotte would really, really like to find a good home for their overpaid vets.
Unfortunately, I agree with you. Diaw would be kind of redundant with Turkoglu’s return. Jax would help Howard catch up to Love for the rebounding title though.
If only...
If only we still had TT (Tyrus Thomas, not Stephen Jackson, temper tantrum)
by L'O on Feb 9, 2011 2:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I have the same opinion now as I had on all earlier trades that have Diaw to Orlando
IT WON’T HAPPEN.
Diaw is only going to replicate a player with the same skillset that they already have in Hedo.
Both are your “point forward” types that need the ball in their hands to make plays for others. They both like to play on the perimeter and take 3, and both don’t rebound consistently.
They are already having problems getting enough touches to Gilbert, Hedo and Nelson without throwing in Diaw who would also need the ball in his hands to be effective.
IF Orlando do a trade it will be for a backup f / c type that will rebound the ball and have a bit of a post game so they can still spread the floor and keep their perimetre shooters with space.
Diaw has improved his rebounding
and if he would just play consistently he’d be a great player
maybe Orlando will take a gamble on getting his head right?
+1
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 10, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
after careful examination
this trade makes no sense for the bobcats other than financially
Jackson is a much better player at J-Rich at this point in their careers and Ryan Anderson, who has tons of potential, isn’t an upgrade over Boris
so basically, we get worse this season and get a bunch of money next season which we may not even be able to use due to the CBA but if we do, we arent liekly to attract free agents anyway
We think more and more alike by the day Adam.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 10, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
A simple No would have sufficed
Although the debate was hilarious
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Feb 10, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
PLAYOFFS ???
One thing seems apparent. We are not making the playoffs this year. We are not better than Indy, Philly, New york or a healthy Milwaukee. We need to add to our existing roster. I’d like to move Jack for a big man of All Star caliber (Kaman, Javal McGee etc.) and let Hendo start.
by chris in union county on Feb 10, 2011 4:21 PM EST reply actions
We can make the playoffs
We beat Philly and we have beat New York and i say we beat Indiana because that was a foul nobody can say it wasnt and we know Jack would have made atleast 2 of those free throws so dont give up on the season yet. But i actually like your trade because i think that would be a playoff team.
why are you always so negative?
we’re better than indy, philly and milwaukee…
and we have been playing without tyrus thomas
We are better than Indy
just not better than the refs in Indy especially when Kwame and Tyrus aren’t in the line-up
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Feb 10, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
All of Milwaukee's merits have come from a good run over the 2nd half of the season last year.
That could have been a fluke the whole time and the Bucks can be the same garbage team they have always been. We’ll need to see them healthy to make a true judgment, but healthy or not, I don’t think the chemistry is there and they aren’t nearly as big a threat as they were last year.
Philadelphia is playing well right now, but again, that’s the same roster they had when the season started. They are not guaranteed anything . They can start a 10 game losing streak tomorrow.
New York is sliding, but probably have a good hold on 6th place for the rest of the year.
And don’t let last night’s loss just have you thinking Indiana is a superior team all of the sudden. Don’t forget, we are playing without Tyrus Thomas and we played without Kwame last night. Roy Hibbert was getting opportunities he normally doesn’t get. I’m not convinced Indy is better at this point.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 10, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
why not try Jackson for Arenas
and make DJ the SG. that lineup would be fun. we don’t need Anderson since we already have Najera. and i’m tired of watching Wallace and Richardson playing together again. that pair never worked out.
by mikael matthews on Feb 11, 2011 5:48 AM EST reply actions
HELL NO!
Arenas is a poison pill that Orlando gambled on. He may ultimately contribute, but things are not working well there.
MagicMark has passionately offered some interesting observations from a Magic fans perspective. I appreciate the banter!
While I still think the original trade (as I had proposed it) would be very good for your team and good for ours, I reconginze you disagree. So what do you realistically think the Magic can do to move from where you sit today, to a championship within the next 2 years, in order to keep Howard? Whatever CBA changes occur, you may be in worse shape next year than now. This (in my opinion) is the time to make a move, and Jax + Diaw give your team the right pieces to take a big next step. I like Anderson, but he’s not ready to deliver anything at the playoff level yet. J-Rich is a scorer, for sure, but Jax gives you that AND defense that Jason cannot deliver.
Just answer me this my Magic friend; how do you plan to match up with the Heat with your current roster? Jax and Diaw have proven to be a pain in their arse.
Orlando can beat Miami as presently constructed - providing Lebron doesn't shoot ~75% on contested jumpshots like he did in the last game.
They only won that game by three (after being ahead by more than 20 pts in the 4th quarter) largely because Lebron just couldn’t miss a shot. No one else on Miami played well at all. Shots were not falling that night for the Magic, and not simply because Miami’s defense was spectacular – Orlando frequently had many open looks and just could not convert them.
The biggest help for Orlando against Miami will hopefully come in the form of a serviceable backup center who has yet to be bought out by his current team. The interior defense is simply awful when Dwight has to sit on the bench.
Keep dreaming. All you have is Dwight Howard. Orlando can't get past Boston or Chicago, much less Miami!!!
Out with the bad Old, in with the good Old
- Rufus on Fire, where even the signatures hold significance
by T-TIME, I MEAN DUNK TIME on Feb 11, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
You know Charlotte best Chicago twice already, so I guess we'll see you in the finals?
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Feb 11, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando as currently constructed is as good as their
Record says they are. 5th place.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 11, 2011 5:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
definitely.
they lost their main guys on defense behind Dwight (Gortat and Pietrus). so they are stuck with playing Malik Allen as the backup. Malik Allen. I thought that guy retired already.
by mikael matthews on Feb 12, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, I was sure Allen had retired as well.
Seems like I remember playing with him on Sega. I think Orlando would be in a lot better position had they just made the trade with Phoenix and not Washington. Gilbert, though I still think is a good player, just isn’t the right player for them. Not only is he taking away some playing time from Nelson, he is also being used at SG, which is an unnatural position for him. And when we talk about defense missing from Orlando, I think we must bring up how they refused to pay Matt Barnes and let him escape to L.A. I think they got too happy with abusing us in the playoffs last year and thinking they can shoot everyone out the game. It’s just not the same anymore for them. I’ve said it for months, Orlando is close to being in our position when it comes to chasing a championship. They better jump in on the Melo’ trade or something.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 13, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Malik Allen played for the Charlotte Hornets in '04-'05
He wasn’t very good. I am surprised he is still in the NBA.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Feb 13, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Wrong Malik - It was the Bobcats in '04-'05
I don’t even remember him playing for us.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Feb 13, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Malik Rose
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Feb 13, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, I was about to say R.I.P.,
but I was thinking of Malik Sealy. Rose was the guy who played for the Spurs right?
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 13, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
yeah it was Malik Rose for the Spurs
played with Robinson and Duncan. a true solid workhorse, if i can remember right. And he’s no Malik Allen. the last time i saw Malik Allen, he was with the Bucks. Orlando definitely needs to find another backup. get someone like Marcus Camby.
and for what i can’t understand is that Daniel Orton has not been getting the minutes. that kid has potential.
by mikael matthews on Feb 14, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
That confuses me as well.
I thought Orton would play a big role this year.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 14, 2011 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Randy Orton?
Seriously…I’ve not seen the WWE in like 4 years…
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Feb 14, 2011 8:49 AM EST up reply actions
Lol. I stopped watching wrestling a few years ago myself,
after people like Orton started showing up (the second time). However, he’s actually one of my favorites of this generation. There are no Shawn Michaels or Steve Austins, but he’s pretty decent.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 14, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
hahaha. and The Rock will have his comeback at this year's Wrestlemania
fucking EPIC.
by mikael matthews on Feb 16, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
after his last three movies
its probably the safe thing for him to do
Oh, I knew something had to be wrong.
Kid has a ton of potential.
Q. What Do You Tell A Girl With Two Black Eyes?
A. Nothing, You've Already Told Her Twice.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Feb 15, 2011 7:46 AM EST up reply actions
I remember Malik Allen
He was here during our inaugural season. I think we got him from Miami in return for Steve Smith. Trust me, you didn’t miss much. :)
Oh no! We suck again!
by Bring Back Primoz on Feb 13, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
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