Bobcats Hang On To Defeat Milwaukee 96-95; Foil Stephen Jackson's Return
by Ben Swanson on Dec 27, 2011 1:48 AM EST
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Going into this game, it was more or less a small puzzle.
The Bobcats are a team full of question marks, while the Bucks are a squad of guys who tend to overperform their reputations against Charlotte.
But after tonight's one-point victory, some things became more clear about both teams.
Focusing on the opponents first, the Bucks rebounded very poorly. Outside of Andrew Bogut, their next best option is Ersan Ilyasova. What they end up with after initial substitutions is an overwhelmed team of poor rebounders and player who don't box out well. The Bobcats were able to more than take advantage even with Boris Diaw's size disadvantage. And when the Bobcats went big with Mullens and, yes, Diop, they took full advantage of their size and quick rebounding guards. Gerald Henderson and Kemba Walker were especially impressive with their athleticism and timing to pull down the errant misses.
Brandon Jennings was Brandon Jennings-ing all over the place, taking care of the ball (zero turnovers) and shooting well from deep and getting inside, but was again an ineffective distributor. Andrew Bogut was off to a fast start with eight points in the first quarter with eight points and five rebounds. He was effortlessly getting entry passes over the smaller Diaw and using good footwork to maneuver inside for hook shots.
Stephen Jackson was absolutely awful tonight. He fouled out in 17 minutes and ended up with six points on five attempts. I'm going to guess that wasn't how he wanted to make his return to the team that traded him.
And yet the Bobcats were hanging tight as the first quarter came to a close, that is until the rookies came in. Do not read this as a condemnation. It's bound to happen, and will happen often. Walker and Biyombo will make errors in their play throughout the season. I thought Biyombo had great quickness on defense, but hedged on his pick and roll defense way too much, letting his man inside for easy penetration, which allowed the Bucks to kick out as the Bobcats compensated for the deep entry.
Kemba Walker had a rough game early, not drawing fouls, not making shots and not particularly finding his teammates well, though the lineup they had on the court was not one to expect smooth offensive stylings from. Biyombo's offense was nonexistent and the only time he got the ball in the post, he turned it over on a three-second violation.
Adding to that, Shaun Livingston was ruthless off the bench for Milwaukee. If you were wondering why the Bobcats wanted a taller third point guard, that's why. Kemba couldn't handle his height and length and skill on the block. Neither could Augustin. Neither could Carroll. Livingston was just too fluid, long and strong to stop with the two undersized points and Carroll's lack of defensive instincts.
Boris Diaw was efficient for Charlotte, hitting four of nine field goals, spreading the floor allowing for nice dishes to cuts, specifically D.J. White. And he had a beautiful denial of Brandon Jennings later on.
I don't know what changed during the break at halftime, but the Bobcats came out of the locker room a changed team. In the second half, Charlotte outrebounded Milwaukee 33 to 14. Gana Diop defended Bogut well in the post and outrebounded him four to zero during his stint in the third. Augustin found his three-ball, Diaw was facilitating well, and Gerald Henderson and Kemba Walker were aggressively fighting for possessions and getting to the line. What was once a 12-point deficit flipped over to a five-point lead heading into the final period of regulation.
The Bucks rallied on a charge from Brandon Jennings and fostered by a collapsing Bobcats defense, which collapsed amid penetration, giving the Bucks' shooters space to launch the threes from Jennings (four of them!) and Dunleavy Jr. Then D.J. White forced Jackson into his sixth foul. And Augustin coupled with Walker to close out the game for the Bobcats on free throws.
Extra notes:
- Byron Mullens has some very sweet touch on his jump shot. He's not strong enough to muscle for great rebounding position, but he's big and can stretch defenses with his shooting. A good game from him tonight.
- Carolina Panthers rookie phenom Cam Newton was in attendance, sitting courtside in a Charlotte Hornets hat. When he returned to his seat after halftime, the fans erupted in cheers, though he hadn't even been on the jumbotron yet. And then he was put on the big screen later on, revealing a new Bobcats cap to more raucous cheering. He also had a little meet-n-greet with Michael Jordan.
- I miss Shaun Livingston.
- Kemba's tenacity for rebounding is fantastic. Reminds me of a wee itty-bitty point guard version of Gerald Wallace.
- Derek Jeter was also in attendance. SO VERY LONELY HE LOOKED.
- This Kemba isolation stop and go move on Larry Sanders had to be the play of the game. The crowd absolutely exploded after it.
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Nice for you guys to start off with a W. Unfortunately the Cavs suck more than I thought they would. The ‘Cats probably still suck, but tonight was a good win for y’all.
PS: How did Kwame do for GS tonight?
FearTheSword, SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers blog
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Dec 27, 2011 2:00 AM EST reply actions
yeah, tonight probably won’t be the usual. The Bucks didn’t rebound exceptionally well and their defense was surprisingly unimpressive.
Kwame was pretty good, it looked like. Didn’t score much, but he’s not there for that anyway. Rebounded decently with six boards and defended well, snatching four steals. Not bad.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
Good win. No ifs, ands or buts!!
Our team showed a great will to win tonight. MJ and everyone there loved it. Great to see Jack collapse. Mullens was encouraging. Shoot, Diop was randomly encouraging! Want to see some more aggressive O from Hendo. And Maggs, actually. And would like to see the Biz get more burn, but I understand. Looking forward to the next game!! Wasn’t always pretty, but she counts!!
by mives36 on Dec 27, 2011 2:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Seemed like a pretty big, active crowd
Was the upper deck empty and everyone moved down? Or did Jordan legitimately pull that crowd after a lockout against the boring Bucks? Hard to tell watching on TV but it seemed a lot better than the normal attendance.
After watching 8 games over the past 2 days, I’d say the lockout didn’t hurt the league at all. And the future is bright. Rubio was awesome. Thunder look good, Eric Gordon is ready to be the man in NO, Derrick Rose is sick, Kemba looks like he has what it takes to develop into a great player… Very exciting 2 days of basketball.
Someone already said this, but major props to Cam for showing up for the Bobcats. That guy is the king of the queen city right now and having him at the games can help make it a “cool” place to be. They should do a cross promotion with the Panthers, have the whole team there… Forget NASCAR night now that the Panthers are (coming) back.
Dont forget the great performances by
Hendo, DJ, Kemba, Mullens PLUS:
Robin Lopez , Markeiff Morris, Marcus Thornton, Alonzo Gee, TWill, Lowry, Derrick Williams, Beasley, Mo Williams???, Brandon Jennings, Ramon Sessions, Josh McRoberts and Metta World Peace (not a future star but one of my personal favorites)
When I was perusing box scores I noticed T-Will’s stat line immediately and thought of you focus, haha.
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
by KaiserBromley on Dec 27, 2011 4:30 AM EST up reply actions
You could easily go on and on and on
Just a great era in the NBA right now. So glad we’re having a season.
The crowd was great
I was there and while it wasn’t a sellout, it was fairly close to one. I’m not exactly sure why this was the case but that was one of the best crowds I’ve seen in awhile. That place was rockin’ the entire second half. I guess the lockout fallout is over, huh? I attribute the crowd to 2 things: 1) 50% off concessions, and 2) this team is very likable. No attitude problems, guys who play hard and don’t complain, and that’s the kind of team Charlotte will get behind.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 27, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Half off beer will really get a crowd rowdy, but
I think there is also a real excitement in the city for Kemba. He’s so much fun to watch even when he’s having a rough shooting night.
The big Crowd may have been Xmas presents
First game after the strike, family in town, new players on the court, etc.
Even at half price, the concessions are cheap. If that was the reason for the draw, people would have bought a big Mac and watched on TV.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno where to watch on TV now that I live in the South again,
but great win! Kemba’s shooting percentage isn’t desirable, but he’s drawing fouls. I assume he’s creating his own shot and not hucking up contested ones. Deej played great. Biz is gonna be a work-in-progress this year but not like that’s something we didn’t already know. And Gana Diop?!?
"If ya ain't first, you're last."
- Ricky Bobby's Dad
"There is no evidence that the tongue is connected to the brain."
-Frank Tyger
I don't remember a bad shot by Kemba
They’re just not dropping yet.
Gana was great when he got in the game
He was a factor on the defensive end like he needs / should be, but he was active in the offensive end as well setting screens etc for everyone else. I remeber a Hendo 3 Pt which you can see gana put a HUGE screen on Liv who was on Hendo, and then start motioning to Diaw with his free hand to pass it behind him to Hendo.
Lots of positives tonight – DJ was great as was Hendo, DJ White wasn’t too bad, Diaw was doing great things everywhere (We need him to play like this with this attitude every night), Mullens was good stretching the floor with his shooting and Kemba got better as the game went on.
BB looked energetic but almost like a deer in the headlights a bit. Not alot of game time to form an opinion on him but looks to need a few more weeks working with the coaches to catch up with everyone else. I’m sure that he will get some more playing time in the coming weeks.
Great start to the season, all we can ask for coming into the Miami game is that we have the same type of effort.
I also though the crowd looked pretty good whilst watching it on League Pass – near the end of the 3rd quarter it sounded like there was a full house.
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011 (Completed)
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land (In Process)
Crowd really was fantastic
Had Gooden not knocked Hendo down he would have thrown that down and the place would have exploded. And after Kemba just toying with Larry Sanders for the and-1 it was out of control. So good to see.
On a side note, I love how Hendo just hopped up after the hit. No retaliation. Steve called it when he said Hendo would do his talking at the line. That’s what this team needs to be to get the city behind it. Hard working, no ridiculous antics, just playing the game.
I too thought that was a positive from Hendo -
being the bigger guy and just playing basketball.
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011 (Completed)
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land (In Process)
1 down, 65 to go!
Man, that was fun! Great effort, and great hope for the upcoming season. Even if we’re not a playoff team (and don’t completely write that off, since that was a team pegged as one of the east’s lower seeds we beat last night) we’re sure gonna be fun to watch. League Pass will be worth every penny this year.
Great team effort and great win
I was pretty satisfied last night. Not only did we win, but the guys on the floor showed heart and effort. The team worked pretty well together, and an assorted amount of players contributed well, and even surprised many, I dare say.
I know other fans may say we’re just gloating over a small win by our “trainwreck of a team” but there were really a lot of positives to take home from this W. I’m glad I’ve seen a lot of positive and encouraging words about Diop. He pulled down rebounds, and was good on defense, and even participated admirably on the offensive end. He surprised a lot of fans last night, and I’m glad. He still has a long uphill battle to get back into shape, but his effort last night was great. Now if only he can also work on making two or three shots a game, and foul a bit less, lol.
I’ve also got to say that Mullens really surprised me. Man, if he can do what he did last night all the time, he’s going to really help us out.
I enjoyed seeing Kemba, and I was really rooting for Diaw to get his triple-double. Bioyombo didn’t see much playing time last night, perhaps because of Diop’s play, but I’m patient with him (perhaps more so than some of you) and I think he’ll turn out just fine. I’m also happy with Maggette’s play and attitude.
Stephen Jackson last night: example of why I’m glad he’s no longer on our team, lol. I recognize the contributions he’s made to our team, as well as his hard work and dedication (not to mention the scoring he provided us), but damn, sometimes it was nights like that that just made me almost hate the guy lol.
As for Livingston, I too, wish he was still a Bobcat. I’m happy he’s doing well after that nasty injury of his though.
Obviously, we’re going to have nasty games this season (possibly, tomorrow?), and we still have a lot of things to work on, but it’s nice to open the season with a W and a great team effort. There seemed to be a great crowd at the Cable Box who had a good time too. Let’s see how the rest of the season goes.
Mullens was fearless.
No hesitation to get off some shots and not worried about taking them late in a close game.
He looked like quite a steal of a trade
We gave up a 2nd round pick and got Mullens and cash.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
They "should have lost this game"???
The Bobcats didn’t look like a team that just got lucky. They looked like a team with a lot of 2nd tier players, who were playing well to their strengths. Everybody seemed to be in position to do what they do well.
Now I’m not suggesting we won’t get blown out against the Heat. But if we keep confidence high, stress low (after all we’ve got nothing to lose), and Silas finds ways to use guys to their strengths… Then we very well might remain competitive with much of the league.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Not to mention the rooks "hopefully" improve as the season progresses.
And we add Williams to the mix
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
yup
I don’t know why we should enter the season with the attitude that we should have lost a game in which the team played pretty well and with excitement
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
not to mention
that games against teams like the Bucks are the ones we need to win.
There’s been a lot of defeatism in the air amongst a lot of fans with this season, and I’m not entirely sure why. Yeah, obviously, we’re not a great, amazing team, and we’re definitely rebuilding, but can’t folks have a bit of confidence and optimism? lol
by Roger, Roger on Dec 27, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call it defeatism
Acknowledging that wins aren’t likely is realism. And most of us embracing the rebuilding efforts are hardly defeatist or pessimistic. I would say the general attitude about this team’s future is optimistic.
I don’t expect the playoffs, that doesn’t make me an Eeyore.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not calling us here defeatists
I was referring to the general public , ie, not us here who frequent RoF and are pretty devote fans. I lot of what I hear out “on the streets” isn’t really good. In many ways I can’t blame them, but really, to completely write off your team (and specifically hometown/homestate team) just because they “suck” is lame. Teams need support during good and bad times, perhaps more so during bad times. Unfortunately, most fans are fickle, and just enjoy the winning aspects of sports (but who doesn’t?). You’ve got to start somewhere.
And I wasn’t referring to Ben or his comment there as defeatist at all. I know perfectly well what he means.
by Roger, Roger on Dec 27, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
I think it’s easier for a fan to say, “we will suck; we won’t win more than 2 games all season,” and then be pleasantly surprised when we win 4, than to feel like we’ll be a decent team, and then be disappointed if/when we fall short of expectations.
I’m taking the “wait and see” approach.
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
Of course winning too many games hurts our "rebuilding"
And puts us potentially right back at that immovable mediocre .500 position. I thought we had the “suck for Luck” philosphy.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly that.
That’s what Ben was implying with that final paragraph.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Then he should have said that, instead of suggesting this was a fluke win
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I cant see how it hurts the rebuilding at all
To me it would seem as if it was sped up. It wouldnt make us mediocre at all. If we are good enough to make the playoffs, remember Najera, Diaw will both come off the books at tha end of the season. Players like Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallo will be available in 2012. One has to believe that pluggin in Gallo in Diaw’s spot or Chandler in Maggs spot would push us into a top 5 team (IF we can make a lower seed with our current team of course)…and with Diop and Maggs coming off the next year, I can see how being a top 5 seed is middle of the road with us in such great financial shape going forward
“One has to believe that pluggin in Gallo in Diaw’s spot or Chandler in Maggs spot would push us into a top 5 team (IF we can make a lower seed with our current team of course)…”
I don’t believe that. I like Gallo, but he’s not significantly better than Diaw and Maggs at this point. He’s a solid player, but he’s not a star to build the team around. I’m not even touching Chandler. He was so over-rated from last season.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
No he isnt significantly better
but at this point he is better than 12pts 5rebs. And I dont think Wilson is overrated, nor will he cost us anything near Maggette’s contract. But to have Wilson starting and Maggs on the bench (if we considered him this summer) would help us out alot. Of course we would lose a little with Diaw gone but we havent even figured in what Reggie Williams will do off the bench instead of Carroll. He def couldve guarded Livingston’s fall away. We still have to find a decent center and believe it or not, with how Diop played last night it leads one to think how good we’d be with a center than can get us 9 or 10pts on top of what Mullens did.
Diaw started at center and all but had a triple double.
Add him, Diop, and Mullens together and we got plenty of production from the 5 last night.
True, Chandler could be more cost effective than Maggs, but that doesn’t mean he fits. Corey is still under contract next season. Hendo, your boy Reggie, and UPS are all on the wings and are going to be cheaper than Chandler. Chandler scores a little bit but his shooting %, rebounding, assists, steals are all pretty average. The only thing he does really well for his position is block shots. You can make a case for Gallo, but Chanlder is just blah.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree.
Like I have always said, if we are in position to make the playoffs with the team we have now, it just means that we are ahead of schedule. If that’s the case, see what that mid round pick gets you and start adding through free agency.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 7:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That remark kind of rubbed me the wrong way, too.
It was if we were making excuses for winning. Huh?
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
He wasn't saying they got lucky.
He was saying for our best interests in the future, losing is beneficial to our future. Because of those draft picks.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that was what he was saying at all
Who knows how rare moments like this will be this year
That’s the comment of somebody who sees this as a fluke and expects defeat.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
You're reading too much into that last sentence.
The whole rest of the paragraph has a tone of “Winning a lot of games isn’t good, so maybe we should have lost, but it was fun so it’s okay.”
And he’s right, who does know?
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
It's also not possible this season.
You yourself don’t think the Bobcats can win even 40% of their games year.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
You said 25
You backed it down to 21 when I told you to put money on it.
Even so 21-25 wins is less than 40% of a team’s games this season. Did I say something wrong?
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sticking with 24.
I think under Silas this team will surprise and Kemba will become a star.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 7:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm going to predict we win against Miami on Wednesday
I don’t know why.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not so sure giving DJ White's minutes to Thomas makes us better
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
You're clearly suggesting we tank for the 1st pick in the draft
Sack-up, man. That’s a losing strategy.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
For the record...
Kemba Walker: 20 minutes, 10-17, 13 points
Kyrie Irving: 26 minutes, 3-13, 6 points
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I’m too lazy to look it up, but 10-17 for 13 points is clearly wrong. Assuming he hit 10 shots, that’s a minimum of 20 points.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 4:01 AM EST up reply actions
He inadvertently (I guess?) combined the free throws with the field goals:
Kemba was 3-10 FG, 7-7 free throws
Irving was 2-12 vs. Toronto, and made his lone free throw attempt.
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
Correct. But actually I did it "wittingly"
Kemba def will need to improve his FG%. But with or without FT’s, Kemba was better… And I won’t be surprised if that continues throughout the season.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
True Shooting % is a good stat for this very reason.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I think I know what I was saying considering I'm the one who said it
and I was saying that a win hurts your odds in the lottery. Panthers FTW gets what I wrote.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
So you're implying that Jordan and crew have plans to tank on purpose to get a good draft pick?
That’s a pretty grievous accusation of an owner who is already taking the heat. You’re saying our team is a cheat.
Sorry but I think you’re dead wrong. We accumulated and are trying to develop young talent, that we already acquired by shedding older players. Temporary losing may be the result, but no way is losing the plan. That’s crazy.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Or are you saying not that it's the team's plan, but just what you wan't to happen?
Either way I don’t get it. Who in their right mind would try to lose, in a friggin lottery system that practically guarantees you WON’T get the #1 pick.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
They aren't tanking.
They’re not telling their players to go out there and lose games. They did, however, put together a team that isn’t talented enough to compete for a playoff spot and are attempting to rebuild by developing and picking talented young players in the future.
You’re making it sound far more evil than it is.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not debating that
You guys said they are trying for a good lottery pick this year.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 2:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Only the fans are
but I havent heard the FO say we are TRYING to get a good pick. Maybe “hoping” but we arent going to just tank if we are in the hunt. Last year we wont 34gms and were still in the playoff hunt. So naturally I believe that it wont even take 35wins to make the playoffs in a shortened season. I think we can fight for a spot.
thanks for putting words in my mouth at every turn
Listen up: here’s the general idea of rebuilding. You subtract from the present in hopes of adding assets that can foster more success in the future, ie. wins are not the focus right now. Is it tanking? I guess, sort of. It’s making the team worse to prepare for building for a better team in the future. And part of this is drafting well, which generally revolves around getting good draft picks. The thing about getting good drafts picks is that the more you win, the less likely you are to get a good player. You still following? As such, winning last night quite likely didn’t help the Bobcats lottery odds down the road.
I never said I thought this win was a fluke. Unlikely, yes. Nearly everyone played pretty solidly. But guess what? I don’t think Stephen Jackson is going to foul out in 17 minutes every game this season. I don’t think Boris Diaw will be near a triple double every night. Excuse me for looking at a roster that starts Boris Diaw and DJ White and Corey Maggette (as much as I like them) and that also gives significant minutes to DeSagana Diop and not thinking this team will win very often.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
by Ben Swanson on Dec 27, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not putting words in your mouth if you agree with me
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You said I called the team a cheat. You said I thought the win was a fluke. These are not things I agree with. You flat out put words in my mouth. I do not appreciate that one bit.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
If this season is about trying for a high pick then yes that would be cheating
The whole purpose of the lottery is to prevent this. My initial argument was that you weren’t saying this, and you’re the one who chimed in to confirm it.
Now if you don’t think this coming lottery is part of the plan, then I apologize for assuming that… That just seems like what you guys are suggesting.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 2:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think there's more nuance to the situation than you're allowing for
A franchise is not either playing for a championship or tanking the season. There’s tons of middle ground.
No one wants to see the players throw games, especially the Bobcats FO. But trading away Wallace and Jackson is a clear sign that the Bobcats do want some high draft picks in the near future. Of course high lottery picks are part of the plan. That doesn’t mean the team is tanking.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Trading Wallace and Jackson has nothing to do with our lottery pick this year
That’s the point I’m having trouble communicating. Those trades got us young players, that yes require time to develop. But the coming lottery is a result, NOT a goal.
The whole point of a lottery is that you CAN’T make that a part of plan even if you wanted to.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 2:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You're over stating the effect of the lottery
Teams with worse records have a better chance at high draft picks. You know that.
The lottery counteracts the effects of complete tanking, but a worse record is still preferable when considering draft order. You know that.
The Wallace and Jackson trades had everything to do with this year’s draft, among other things.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right, which is why last year the team with the 8th worst record was awarded the 1st pick.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
It's a lottery.
Lottery is based on luck. Therefore, they got lucky.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
It's a weighted lottery
You can deny facts all you want, but a worse record equals a better chance at getting a high pick. We all know how the draft works. We all know why the lottery system is in effect, but that doesn’t change the fact that a worse record makes it easier to get a high draft pick.
You can pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about if you need to, but you know I’m speaking the truth.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
I never said it didn't give us a "better" chance
I made the point that even the best chance is still a long shot. In the NFL there’s no lottery, prospects are more reliable, AND a single position like QB can completely turn your team around.
But let’s stop pretending, this is not the NFL.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
A single player CAN turn a team around.
They can and they have.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
It's the only shot we have.
You aren’t bringing alternative methods to the table.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
the season is about developing the young core. A lottery pick is likely to accompany this due to the nature of the (lack of) talent on this roster and the Bobcats’ process of rebuilding. Consider that Paul Silas could have played Bismack Biyombo, who had a rough game, much more. Maybe he would continue to struggle that night, but perhaps that helps down the road. It would have probably ended in a loss. Instead, Diop got more burn and the Bobcats won. Those are the opportunity costs for this season. Youth should, and will, be the focus this year. Losing will probably happen to the team more than winning. With that comes a draft pick that will dollars to donuts be a good pick. This thing happens to other teams too. It’s not cheating.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
So then my original assumption, that you said was wrong, was right
You were suggesting we will lose because our young core is not very good right now, and not because we are losing because it is “beneficial to our future” like FTW said?
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Wow...
You’d think Ben was running for president on the Republican party given the ferocity of this attack.
You realize that no one at this site has anything to do with the Bobcats organization. I don’t think anyone is accusing the Bobcats of tanking. I don’t quite understand the pseud-machismo faction of fans who are afraid of every loss that goes in the record books. There is a big picture that you guys, focus, southtunnel, etc. are ignoring. Losses for this team are inevitable. Superior draft position and a chance to watch young players grow are the consolations to that truth. Looking past a single game and even a single season is not a sign of weakness. It’s a sign of perspective.
No one could ever accuse MJ of wanting to lose, and I don’t think that’s what most people are saying. If the Bobcats were told to tank this year, they never would have played the way they did last night. No one wants to see the players tank. We want to see them play hard, learn, grow, and turn into a good team. We also want a great pick in next year’s draft. If the playoffs aren’t an option, why not? If the players took the “at least we’ll get a good pick next year” mentality, they’d be no fun to watch, but no one on this site is playing on the team. We’re fans. We’re 3rd parties, and we’re able to take an objective view of a lost season.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let me put it this way...
Jordan’s expression when Kemba hit that crossover layup, was not one of “oh crap… If he keeps this up I might not get a good draft pick”. It was excitement over knowing the moves he made last year are going to pay off.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let me put it this way...
just about any point guard in the NBA can cross over a power forward and move a crowd. One moment does not a consistently successful franchise make. This process isn’t done. There’s much more work before this team finishes rebuilding. As if MJ watched that play and thought he made all the moves to build a successful team in one season. “YAY A CROSSOVER, WE’RE GOING TO BE A DYNASTY!”
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
Lol. Well when you make exaggerations like that
I have to agree with you. In fact nothing this team has ever done has ever caused anybody to think the word “dynasty”.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 27, 2011 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
everybody is attacing Ben
and its totally unnecessary
the team played very well.
the team showed amazing resiliency.
but you cant look at this game and say that we’re going to be great this season.
we got a tremendous ammount of help from the Bucks. Stephen Jackson wont always have such an awful night, a PF wont always be guarding Kemba, and Boris wont always look like Oscar Robertson (even though he almost could).
this win, unfortunately, did hurt our chances in the lottery. and as bad as that sounds, its true.
and with this “competitive balance” in the NBA, it seems to be the only way to obtain talent on a small market team.
call it tanking if you want, but its all part of rebuilding. we probably should have played Bismack more so he could get some experience, and yes, this would have probably made us lose, but it would be great for the future.
Ben is simply remaining realistic, and everything hes said is true. we arent that good of a team. we simply arent. look at our starters. i dont look at this roster and say "oh, they can hang with Miami, Chicago, OKC, Lob City, NY, or Boston.
because we cant.
while i am thrilled that the Bobcats won, i still wont say that we are any better than a 20 win season.
but next year, we’re certainly ready to challenge for a 5-7 seed.
--(insert quote, lyric, or joke here)
by StudMuffin15 on Dec 27, 2011 3:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Cam and MJ looking on..as the Bobcats eek out the first victory of the season
Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!
Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time
'We got to learn to stick in the knife and turn it - Ron Rivera aka BAMF
i find it funny MJ’s friend sat alone in the vip box…while Cam sat court side next to MJ.
Proud member of the Panthers Mafia!
Saving The Environment One Green Comment at a Time
'We got to learn to stick in the knife and turn it - Ron Rivera aka BAMF
by MMA_PITBULL on Dec 27, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think Jeter said something about not sitting next to MJ and Cam until they took off those stupid hats.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I was going to say
Jeter probably didn’t want to be seen anywhere near a basketball legend who wears expensive hideous washed up torn up jeans
by Roger, Roger on Dec 27, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Between MJ's britches...
and Cam hat-bill…these are 2 fashion movements that need to end! Cam! I love you dude. (nh) Wear your hat with a damn normal bill. You’re not on your way through the hallways to 4th period Spanish anymore. And MJ, dude. Make a choice. Go casual and show up in your Jordan Brand kicks and sweats/hoodie…or go all out and wear nice suits like a for treal businessman. Anything to get rid of the sweater/jeans collision!
Jeter got a lot of Boos when he was introduced
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
why?
dj is a class act and a serious champion. it’s not like charlotte is near any real MLB cities.
Boone Logan is a good boy. So is David Robertson. Team A.J.
Because everyone that is not a Yankees fan hates the Yankees
What's scarier than a bear with chainsaws for arms? Nothing.
The Yankees are everything that is wrong about baseball
but that is a topic for another blog
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
I used to walk my dog at the park
across the street from the high school Jeter went to. Now you know.
I once split a bucket of chicken and a quart of milk with said dog in that very park. It was one of those magical evenings where the simple pleasures of living become sublime.
by milky C on Dec 27, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
i rec'd it too...
I love random statements
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Dec 28, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Past and the Future
Greatness. Lets hope Kemba can show signs too. His quickness is unbelieveable, but the shotmaking was poor as to be expected.
Great game. Fun to watch, and I'm glad to see we pulled out a win.
I see a break out performance in the near future for Walker
Biyombo looks like a project big (go figure). He go almost no minutes, but he should be able to rebound better than he’s shown in two games so far. His superior athleticism is undeniable, but his rebound positioning is poor to say the least. If I were Silas, I’d primarily be working on the basics of boxing out and simple floor placement with the kid. There’s still reason to be excited about this guy.
Mullens sure didn’t look like a “stiff” who made it into the L just because he’s tall. He does need to player tougher though.
Looks like Diop’s primed to get more credit than he deserves just because expectations were so low coming into the season. 8 boards from Diop should be an every game occurrence.
Hendo and DJ played great, but the big story to me is Boris Diaw. His play was outstanding. 2 blocks and 11 boards from the yawning frenchman is nice to see. 9 assists to 1 turnover is pretty special too, but the hustle stats are far more impressive. Maybe he takes the next few games off just to let us all know he’s still Boris, but I’m starting to think this could be the beginning of a break out season for Boris.
Diaw put up his best numbers in the 05-06 season in Phoenix and then in his first half season here in Charlotte. Boris had unique opportunities at each juncture because of wholes in the respective rosters of each team. Phoenix needed a center, and Charlotte needed a play maker and starting power forward. Boris again finds himself on a team with a lot of wholes and a lot of opportunities. Maybe feeling like he’s needed will cause him to play like he cares this season. The fact that this isn’t a contract year doesn’t hurt either.
I don’t expect the playoffs, but this team is going to be a hell of a lot of fun to watch.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions
The only reason I can see Diaw playing consistently is for that next contract dangling in front of him in the future.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that sentiment
but I’ve seen Diaw play like he cares in the past. I think it’s entirely possible that Diaw’s motivation partly depends on how he fits into a team. He’s go an opportunity to be fill wholes on this team that weren’t there when Gerald, Jackson, and any starting center were present. I think that may get him more interested. It’s just a theory, but Diaw doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who’s primarily motivated by getting a new contract. I admit that the contract is always part of the equation though.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Biyombo is 19 years old and has practiced with the team 5 days
It is too early to call him a project. I am surprised he played at all. Give him some time.
Mullens was somewhat effective at guarding Bogut. He also rebounded well. The outside shots were impressive. No fear.
Diop was great on the boards and for the most part on defense. It is still hard to make up for being a complete zero on offense. Sometimes they passed him the ball because he was just standing there wide open 10 feet from the basket.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
A 19 year old that's been with the team 5 days is the definition of a project
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
If Biyombo was signed on day one and we didn't have a strike shortened off season
Biyombo could have been an integral part of the team on day one. This is undertermined.
A project is one who will ride the bench most of the year, and perhaps spend some time in the D-league as he learns the game. This is what Larry Brown thought Hendo was.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
He's still a project.
He has no idea what he’s doing out there, and that’s fine. He’ll learn in time. He’ll practice, he’ll play, he’ll get experience, and hopefully he’ll become a hell of a player in the coming years like many people expect.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
The crowd was great last night. It was one of the best atmospheres ive been apart of at a Cats game. As far as the play, whats not to be happy with? I thought everyone played a good game we got contributions deep into the bench. My only beef was with Corey Magette who i would like to see post up smaller guards. There were many occasions where livingston was on Corey and he faced up rather than using his size and strength and backing him down. Other than that i thought the cats played great and showed great effort and energy (boris included) It looks like the Franchise is finally headed in the right direction.
Great Game
Loved every second after the first qtr and a half. I do think we should put DJ and Kemba in together against 2nd teams more often though. Kemba looks a lot more comfortable as a secondary distributor/scorer though. And although Bismack did turn it over with the 3 second violation, he did seem competant in the hook shot he threw up. Corey Magette’s dunk was phenominal too. As the season progresses though, we should look at trading DJ for our 3 of the future or a 5, or a middle 1st round draft pick. Kemba’s scoring will be needed throughout the game more often, and Boris can be the primary facilitator while Kemba learns the PG game. I just don’t know of anyone out there at those positions to trade for.
Also, I’ve still be rapped up in the Panthers so I didn’t see we traded for BJ Mullins. He’s got some touch! Let’s hope Silas can turn him into a man like he did Kwame b/c he’s HUGE, an attribute we are definitely lacking
As soon as we drafted Kemba, I said he'd probably be a better NBA player than DJ
but I don’t think we trade DJ right now. His value’s too low right now. What if DJ is primed for a break out season? I think Kemba has to show that he’s definitely not a bust before we trade DJ, and that’s going to take a while.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
I hope we trade him at the deadline.
We need to get something for our expiring guys, and if we can load up on more first round picks, that’ll only help us for the future.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Really starting to think...
the skill set and production of Diaw and DJ this year, will have some squads who are making a hard playoff push looking pretty longingly at the two and what they could boost on their teams. We might be able to make this work! In the mean time…w/o looking to far ahead…I just hope to see this team continue to gel and produce…and grow.
That's been what I've been thinking since the offseason.
I feel like worst case scenario we get 1 first round picks for both while getting an expiring like this trade:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7w453ky
Or best case scenario we can send each one out individually for 2 first round picks.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
WTF - 1 game and its time to talk trading DJ?
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
After a damn near double-double, no less.
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
I'm in full on future mode man.
Some people see him as having a future on this team, I don’t, mainly because I’d rather we didn’t resign him. If that’s the case, I’d like to get something for him.
I can understand both sides, but if someone is offering a first round pick for him, I would hope no one would think of turning it down.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Lottery first rounder okay, but not for a late first rounder
but at the end of the day I like DJ and at this stage he is better than Kemba as the starting PG in my opinion.
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011 (Completed)
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land (In Process)
We're not gonna get a lottery first rounder for DJ
because only contenders would trade for Deej. But I’d be more than willing to get a late first rounder for him because it’d be better than getting nothing.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 28, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Why trade DJ
he aint even 25 is he? Why cant he be apart of the future? I think the only way we trade DJ is to get a player that is at least half way productive and still on the rookie scale plus a pick. It would be dumb to trade him for just a pick…
IF we were to trade him
and at this stage I don’t want us to then I want more than a late first rounder.
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011 (Completed)
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land (In Process)
I'm with you 100% there.
I’m really don’t understand all this buzz about shipping Augustin out ASAP.
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
This is the last year of his contract
He will leave because he knows the orginization is behind Kemba and we will not pay him what other teams will.
That actually sounds like a great reason to trade him
Maybe he can put up big numbers the next few weeks to improve his value.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Thats why I want to trade him
His contract is only 3 million so its not like Boris where we will clear a lot of cap space and if he plays like he did last game until the deadline we can get a first round pick for him.
I say we trade him immediately...
Offer him, Biyombo, and a future 1st to GS Warriors for Klay Thompson and Kwame Brown.
Kwame's contract is too short
Can’t we get Darko somehow?
Don't know...
Both are legitimate franchise players. Doubt Hou or NJ would move them, except for maybe a CP3 type blockbuster deal. Got a better shot at scooping Marcus Morris from Hou now that TWill is the team leader. Still gonna take alot to snag an NBA ready talent like Morris, though.
: )
by mives36 on Dec 27, 2011 1:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jackson
Is obviously still butt hurt. Anyone see his interview?
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 1:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Can't post it from my phone,
Seen it in hoops hype and think its from observer. He was just talking about how he didn’t want to be here after Crash was traded and all type of other crap when that’s really not how it was. I love Jax, but he is acting like a bitter female.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 1:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's an article from the Observer...a Bonnell piece.
Was from the morning of the Bucks/Bobcats game. Jack basically said he checked out when Crash left. He just added more fuel to his “headcase” fire.
I can't blame Jordan for wanting to be better than a 7th seed in the East
"If they’re going young, and they feel like they’re going to lose, it was the best situation to move me. I wasn’t going to be happy with just losing. I agree with them on that.’’
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Took him a while to get to that understanding
I guess emotions got in the way
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
anyone have thoughts on the "hornets hat" issue?
•Carolina Panthers rookie phenom Cam Newton was in attendance, sitting courtside in a Charlotte Hornets hat. He was put on the big screen later on, revealing a new Bobcats cap to more raucous cheering. He also had a little meet-n-greet with Michael Jordan.
dont want to open this up as a “we need to be called the hornets again” debate. just was curious as to readers opinions as to why cam newton, well aware of charlottes NBA team name, wore a hornets hat by choice instead of bobcats gear? I read into it as he was wearing retro fashion, a throwback on the head..if you will. but maybe he was raised a hornets fan and still is? maybe he was a major larry johnson fan? maybe he like teal better then royal blue?
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
I own a Charlotte Hornets snapback
and not a single Bobcats hat. It just looks better, and it’s not like you see very many Bobcats hats on sale anywhere.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I love the old Hornets gear. Some of it's being made again by retro-sports lines.
I think the Charlotte Hornets franchise is a great image for the city and I have no problems with Newton wearing the hat. Yea it ended ugly, but no one can take those glory years away. The Hornets should be remembered fondly as it’s an important part of North Carolina sports history.
Plus, the Bobcats gear is unimaginative and lame.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
My girlfriend got me a Bobcats hat for christmas, I love it.
and we live in Tampa. If she can find a Good Cat’s hat living in tampa im sure People in Cha can find one.
just saying.
"It's better that people think you're a fool, then to open you're mouth and remove all doubt."
I've got 4 Bobcats caps. All look great.
I still have plenty of Hornets gear, but would feel like a fool to wear it to Bobcats game.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, I feel sorry for you.
Wear your team’s gear with pride. Be happy for the years we had with the Hornets.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still a big Charlotte Hornets fans - check my old Fan Posts...
I’m still not going to wear Hornets gear to Bobcats games.
Are you in the market for a PJ Brown bobblehead?
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still holding out hope that we get the Hornet's brand back
Everybody in town agrees with this (even Cam apparently) except for a few die hard Bobcat fans… which let’s be honest, are a tiny minority in this town.
Oh how I want to see Kemba Walker in teal and blue.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
As a PR move, I think it was lame
To this day we still have branding issues and people calling us “Hornets.” The organization has tried hard, especially after Bob Johnson left, to market our brand. Cam wearing the hat is only going to get some riled up about how much the Bobcats name sucks and how the NBA should give us the Hornets name/colors back.
On the flip side, one could view it as Cam paying tribute to Charlotte’s sports history, you know?
Hornets retro gear has become pretty popular as of late, for whatever reason. I see random people, in very random states, wearing retro Hornets stuff.
by Roger, Roger on Dec 27, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Grantland ran an article a while ago
Stating the Hornets Starter jacket is the holy grail of retro gear.
My 1st starter
was a Hornets jacket. I had that thing for years and nobody could tell me i was fly. LMAO. I wish New Orleans wouldn’t have gotten the name and logo
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Dec 27, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
I think he wore the hat
as a “look” without connection to the hornets as a past team in the area. but I could be wrong. if theres one thing I hope for, its that he brought that bobcats hat with him planning to switch at halftime, and not being asked by jordan & friends to please wear a bobcats hat.
I have gone to games with a mourning & johnson jersey on. it wasnt because I dislike the new name and colors, I dont I have a season 1 okafor orange road jersey as well. it was as a way of showing I have been in person at games since 1988, and a way of paying tribute to memories of charlotte basketball past.
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Dec 27, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
totally agree
retro NBA gear, snapbacks for sure, are the mist fashionable thing you can wear these days as a youngster.
im sure Cam has zero connection to the renaming debate, but he wanted to wear somd retro Hornets stuff in the teams retro home.
--(insert quote, lyric, or joke here)
by StudMuffin15 on Dec 27, 2011 3:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Personally...
I’m annoyed our “throwback” jerseys are for the Carolina Cougars and not the hideous purple Hornets jersey. I think the Bobcats should be the Bobcats, but N.O. should have changed their name when they moved. I wish they would still sell “retro” Hornets stuff as long as it says “Charlotte” on it.
by drapht00 on Dec 27, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
heres food for thought.....
the city of seattle brought along legal council when the sonics moved to OKC. the reason being is they enforced legal retention of the color scheme and brand name “sonics”. city legislature was drawn up so that if a team moved there, they become the soncis and any aformentioned refrences to their past name and colors would be abolished. so if david schtern caves into the fact that the new orleans hornets will only be bought from the NBA when ownership groups from seattle are allowed to move them…again….the name and colors of the hornets will be a thing of the past…forever. sad but true.
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Dec 27, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
It means we'll be able to have Hornets throwbacks.
The Hornets died when they left Charlotte.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Next time...
I just wanna see him in a “Walker #1” Bobcats jersey courtside. Kemba, hook him up!
They need to do a half time promotion and have a 3-pt shooting contest between Cam and Smitty…or Pickles….or Coach Rivera…or MJ?!?! Would be fun to watch! Good PR for both teams.
A pretty convincing case for why we should all be wearing Charlotte Hornets gear:
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
jesus moses !
thats scary, I do love the hornets gear though
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Dec 27, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Haha
It’s the kind of thing that’s so bad it becomes good for all the wrong reasons. But yea, when I first saw this I thought “where can I get a jacket like that?”
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
anyone think jordan MADE newton change the hat?
or did newton have a plan all along to rock hornets 1st half and bobcats 2nd half?
"..and we have scott may coming back this season.." bob johnson quote before the start of 07-08 season, when he didnt even know his own players name.
by bobcatsbrendan on Dec 27, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
he wore the hat in the second half too...
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
I hope it sent a message to MJ to go after the Hornets brand
There’s still a lot of love for that team… something the Car’s are short on.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
As we are loosing millions already
I don’t see Jordan then spending millions more to buy another teams colours and jersey / emblem.
The Bobcats brand is what we are and I don’t think there is a need to change it now. Give it time once we have rebuilt the team and we start wining / playing in the playoffs the brand will start to mean something to the peole that still haven’t fully jumped onto the bandwagon.
I also just tend to think that trying to and to keep talking about the Hornets brand is just looking backwards – lets focus on the future instead (as Bobcats).
Geelong Cats for Premiers 2011 (Completed)
Rich Cho - lead us to the promised land (In Process)
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
"It's better that people think you're a fool, then to open you're mouth and remove all doubt."
Cam Newton
is 22 years old.
Safe to say he remembers the Hornets. Probably just a “hey look, a Charlotte Hornets hat. Cam Newton thinks this would be a great thing to wear to Cam Newton’s public appearance.”
Anarchist. Misanthrope. Beard aficionado.
EXACTLY
--(insert quote, lyric, or joke here)
by StudMuffin15 on Dec 27, 2011 3:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
wait,
does Cam Newton speak in third person?
--(insert quote, lyric, or joke here)
by StudMuffin15 on Dec 27, 2011 3:45 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
i love that we won
and it was a win that is very nemorable for Bobcats history.
you couldnt have written a better story, with Kemba’s heroics and Cam’s appearance.
it was great for the city. no doubt.
but, alas, i dont expect this through 66 games
--(insert quote, lyric, or joke here)
by StudMuffin15 on Dec 27, 2011 3:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think
Even bigger than the fact that we won our first game under our rebuilding year was the fact that we did it on front of a good crowd and that a legitimate superstar like Cam or Derek Jeter would take time out to watch a team like ours. It also doesn’t hurt that Kemba didn’t disappoint. Jordan will do anything to give our city something or someone to believe in and the team is going to market Kemba as the first true star of the Bobcats. Luckily, I think he has a little A.I. In him.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 4:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cam probably wore it on a dare
after a friend bought the cap on Ebay
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Bobcats Winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !
Props to Silas Jr. for the game plan and Rich Cho for the Mullens scoop !
by chris in union county on Dec 27, 2011 3:55 PM EST reply actions
any word on DJ? how is his ankle?
"It's better that people think you're a fool, then to open you're mouth and remove all doubt."
He will play tomorrow, per an article I just read on the ESPN site.
Also (somewhat related), Gooden has been suspended one game for his flagrant 2 foul on Hendo.
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
Gooden being thrown out helped us win.
He usually plays well against the Cats. When they lost both Gooden and Jackson, they were weak at SF.
Gooden clearly deserved to be tossed for the cheap shot. He gave each of his teammates fist bumps as he left for the tunnel. Should have been suspended another game for that.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Why was Gooden booed during introductions?
I was booing too and wasn’t sure why. Is he just that unlikable?
Here's why making a future lottery part of your "rebuilding" process is absurd (IMO) ...
1. The worst team in the league has a 75% chance of NOT getting the 1st pick.
2. The 8th worst team was just awarded the 1st pick. Totally unreliable.
3. The last 10 years have produced first overall picks such as Greg Oden, Kwame Brown, Andrea Bargnani and Andrew Bogut. IF you’re lucky enough to beat the odds and get the 1st pick, your chance of drafting an AllStar is less than 50%.
4. Many people think the whole thing is rigged to give marketable teams better players.
Taking all this into consideration… The chance of the worst team selecting a Derrick Rose caliber player is like 12% or worse. It’s a crap shoot. And MJ’s no moron. If we are a lottery team again, he’ll make the most of it. But what you see right now is the core of the future whether we like it or not.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
This draft class is WAY better than the drafts you named
Aside from that Oden/Durant combo.
I agree that worst record in the league doesn’t guarantee anything. But we don’t have a superstar yet. To be competitive, you need one. Additionally, if we don’t get a lottery pick it goes to Chicago. Hard to argue that the team, even if it maxes out with the current players, is anything more than a 7-8 seed. This roster is constructed to lose while playing as hard as possible. Previously, as hard as possible with the available talent meant the 8 seed.
The reality is, you have to tear it down to build it up. We don’t necessarily need the #1 pick, but we do need a top 5 pick to continue the building process.
It doesn't have to be the number 1
Pick. Anyone in the lottery is going to come out with a pretty good player so I hope to move Boris and/or maybe Tyrus for a pick that has the potential to be a lottery. I agree, there are very few spots on the team left to inject these star young players and the overall core of our team we hope grows to contend for a championship is already in our faces. Kemba and Bismack can pretty much be penciled in for spots on that team. Henderson, DJ and Tyrus could all be a part of that team. Mullens is making a case for why he should be. White and Williams could ultimately be big contributors. Same with Brown. Any combination of players in the first round added to our group would have us in position to contend for a playoff spot as early as next year.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 6:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
All you're doing is saying that there are no certainties in the draft
That’s a given. Yes, you can point to a lot of pitfalls in the draft. The team with the worst record is not assured of having the first pick, and the first pick is not assured of being an all star, or even a good player. Yes. I freely admit that. But that doesn’t change the fact that all the best players in the game get drafted with high picks. Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, John Wall, D-Will, CP3, Shaq and Zo, Larry Johnson, and a much longer list of players than I care to think of right now… High draft picks are valuable. The team with the worst record in the league is assured of having a top 3 pick. You can’t deny the realities.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Nope! I'm saying landing a franchise altering Superstar in the draft is unlikely, and a hopeless plan
Look no farther than our own team’s draft history! Top 5 draft picks: Emeka Okafor, Raymond Felton, Adam Morrison… ALL who were supposed to turn this franchise around as you are suggesting.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Pay attention: I never said that
I said putting a sucky team on the floor in hopes of one day drafting a Superstar is a stupid plan.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Idk what His plan is
but he is def right…its a very stupid plan. And actually demoralizing to the confidence of the young players. Put the best line up out there and if they win then they win…We got too many young players to build up (DJ included) to just put BB in a game for “growth”
Again, you're arguing with a ghost, homeboy
Few people believe that the organization would tell their players to lose on purpose. I know that I’ve never said that.
That’s something completely different than giving Biyombo more playing time, however. He’ll have to earn his minutes early, but his time on the court will increase this year as the playoffs become less and less likely. He’s got a lot of learning to do, and we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot by not letting him get out there and play in a season that’s simply not about the wins and losses for the Bobcats.
I know it may hurt your precious pride to admit it, but the Bobcats aren’t going to be a good team in the win/loss column this season. That doesn’t mean they won’t be fun to watch. Hell, I’m as excited about the team as I’ve ever been. But we’re going to have to look past wins and losses this season, and just enjoy watching the young guys play.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Give up BR.
Sometimes people won’t listen to the rational argument no matter how many times you present it.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 27, 2011 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
^^^^^^^^
Both of these posts ooze “I hope we lose but its Focus Im arguing with so I can sound smart and no one will say anything about me HOPING we lose”….
I hope we win a title.
I’d be thrilled if we just make the playoffs.
I expect us to lose (and so do you by your own admission).
If you’re not going to respond to what I’m clearly stating, then you’re debating a ghost. Instead of responding to what you want to hear, try responding to what I’m actually saying.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 7:21 AM EST up reply actions
I already said 25
I also said that in the weak Eastern conference, it wouldnt be farfetched to make the the playoffs in 66. Bc in 82 it only took 36games. But again nobody is responding to me correctly either. People coming up here talking about “I hope we get a good pick” (meaning “I hope we suck”) and “its pretty much written in the stars that we lose”…but have the nerve to call somebody “ignorant” or a “troll” for criticizing a couple of players. We arent even at full strength yet. Im sure Higgins at least has to be a tad bit better than Matt Carroll and Reggie Williams is at least a better scorer than Derrick Brown. Diop is rebounding and playing better D than I expected and he’s still WAY outta shape. So for ppl to come in here and say that “we wont be good with this roster” and turn around and say “you cant say __ is not good yet” is silly as hell.
PS. I know alot of these so called fans would be hurt if we did make the playoffs with this roster. And thats the sad part. “If we make the playoff that will set our rebuilding back another few years”…no it wont. Nobody in the draft will impact us that much. Anthony Davis = Anthony Randolph…
25 wins is really bad, even in a shortened season.
So we’re not disagreeing all that much really.
I don’t think 25 gets you into the playoffs this season. I know why you’re making that claim, and it’s not completely off base, but 25 wins is a junk team no matter what.
Still, playoffs will be a great accomplishment for this club. Still, I don’t believe you really expect us to make the playoffs.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
I want us to make the playoffs
But if we dont and we get the 14th pick im gonna be pissed im tired of mediocrity. And really your going to talk about true fans? Your the one that hope one of our players fail just to feed your pathetic little ego.
lol @ focus thinking
anthony davis = anthony randolph
that’s a far cry from NBAdraft.net’s comparison of Marcus Camby
I still hold hope...
that Drummond and Barnes ARE franchise type talents. Time will tell. I’m not as high on franchise potential with Davis……
drummond
is very unpolished but has a very high ceiling
davis is the most pro ready… right now he’s marcus camby, if he manages to put on weight, he’s amare
barnes… will be a ho hum pro, definatley not a franchise player (imo, based on what i’ve seen from him… especially his decision making skills, which is practically an intangible)
Agree with first 2...
but I think everyone writes off Barnes incorrectly. Gotta remember this kid was a #1 HS recruit, a phenom, and the hype has followed all the way. Barnes has been solid. And you gotta take into account the fact he’s a Tarheel. Everyone wants to see HUGE stats and numbers….but it doesn’t work like that in Chapel Hill. More so when you are surrounded by legit ballers. This system doesn’t generally breed huge stats. Even lightning rod scorers like Vinsanity and MJ were working in the system.
Barnes game will open up at the NBA level. When he has man matchups and doesn’t have to drive into a hovering zone….or when his coach encourages him to dominate the ball and be aggressively the scorer on the floor….he will be there. imho
Never have you EVER seen
DONT DO THAT TS. YOU NEVER seen me HOPE a player fails. NEVER. Do I criticize players at times? Yes. But I NEVER HOPED a player failed. That last sentence was unnecessary…thats uncalled for.
i've seen it all the time from you
almost as much as you’ve seen us say we want the bobcats to tank
I can find
maybe 30 post of fans hoping we suck. And thats from every thread made in dec. Much less the last 6mos. Now can you find me ONE post where I HOPE a player fails? I doubt it…
no you can't...
you just think that’s what they’re saying
i think you’re saying you want the biz to suck so you can once again tell us how you were right
And it's gotta upset
him a little to see Hendo have such a good game. But he gave him props so we can probably lay off Focus until the next time he says something crazy.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
and y
does everyone think that if we get a 15th pick or so that we have somehow slipped into mediocrity? Isnt Gilchist and Jones down there somewhere? You guys do know we will be an 8th or 7th seed and gradually move up right? You dont go from nothing to top 4. Even the beloved OKC started at 8. You have to make the playoffs to see where you stand and whats missing. If we make the playoffs this early in rebuilding then obviously we arent missing much. And it doesnt make us mediocre to make the playoffs
both are top 10 projected, so no they aren't
OKC has a true superstar (and had one when they began making the playoffs), maybe Kemba will be that guy, but probably not
i have yet to see one person say that if this team as is makes the playoffs it’ll be a bad thing… if we do, we’ll actually lose our pick, so who cares about the draft anyway (unless we manage to get a first round pick through trade)
if we make the playoffs this season then everyone will say that our rebuilding effort started quicker than we expected
oh and beyond that
what i remember people saying is that it is better for our future to play with the team we have and know we’re gonna suck then sign a bunch of those mediocre free agents you’ve been harping about, still suck, but tie up cap space
that’s a far cry from saying we hope we’ll suck and wanna tank
EXACTLY.
We are making moves on a budget that actually fill needs. NO ONE has ever been opposed to that.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Because, as we've made obvious over and over and over
that almost every single NBA championship team of the last 20 years has had a Top 5 pick on their team. Therefore, getting a 15th pick in the draft makes it that much harder to become an elite team. I swear, it’s like talking to a brick wall.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 28, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
which team didn't have a top 5 pick?
detroit?
which means over the last 20 years
there are 0 teams that won a championship without a top 5 pick
they are:
jordan, pippen, olajuwan, robinson, duncan, o’neal, billups (and darko), allen, garnett, gasol, nowitzki
did i miss anyone?
You hope BB fails
If the way you talk about him is hoping he is good then I would hate to see how you encourage your kids if you have any. " DAMMIT FOCUS JR. YOU GOTTA FUCKING PEDAL THAT BIKE YOU SUCK"
Lmao.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
he would try to replace his kid
with another free agent kid who behaves inconsistently, or find one from the development daycare
I believe the team with the worst record is only guaranteed the #4 pick, at worst. They can lose the lottery, but since it then goes from worst to best record, that puts them at #4. Unlikely to happen, but it could.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 4:09 AM EST up reply actions
Nope, you are correct
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
And honestly...
this years draft with a Top 4 pick is a pretty good shot at a big-time player. Drummond, Barnes, Davis, Sullinger
Stop it with the Barnes
UNC is my fav team. And Barnes isnt that good. And he def doesnt fit here…
How do you, southtunnel, suggest we rebuild if not through the draft?
Lay out your rebuilding plan if high draft picks are so useless.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
We've already been "rebuilding" through the draft
That’s not some genius plan, it’s what really bad teams do.
We traded Wallace and Jack NOT because we were assured to pick the next Superstar. We did it because we weren’t going to get any better. MJ tried to get players like CP3 to add to Wallace and Jack, and they weren’t going to come here. The ONLY option other than a gradual decline with aging players was to cut losses and get young guys via draft and trade. And look at our roster… That’s exactly what we are doing.
But this coming draft is NOT “the plan”. It’s just a result of us potentially not being very good yet.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Huh?
What is your plan for rebuilding without using the draft as a central source of talent acquisition?
No one ever made the claim that trading Wallace and Jackson assured the Bobcats of the next superstar. If you’re debating those kinds of statement, you’re debating a ghost. You can go ahead and stop responding if you’re only going to speak to what you wish I said rather than what I’m actually saying.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
It's not my plan. I'm just telling you what we're doing
And purposely putting a bad team on the floor to get a better lottery position is NOT what we’re doing. If that’s not what you are saying, then I’ve misunderstood you and we are debating nothing.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Good Point southtunnel
Finishing last is a poor strategy. It also demoralizes the fan base.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Wow dude, just drop it
You misunderstood what was said in the recap. Move on.
What's scarier than a bear with chainsaws for arms? Nothing.
I didn't misunderstand it
It has been said that’s our strategy here for some time now. I’ve kept quiet about it until this post. But now it’s been exposed how ridiculous the idea is.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
No. I could care less if you believe me.
It WAS being implied that our plan was to suck for a better lottery position. So say that’s not what you meant, explain it away, say I misunderstood… whatever. I don’t care, as long as we stop implying that.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Im going to have to agree with South
he’s right. I’ve gotten tired of posters calling everyone out for talkin about certain players but feel that it is good to say that the PLAN is to lose so we can get a good pick. That is so un fan like and unfair to the team we have already built so far
It seems like you're appealing to some pseudo-macho
It seems like you’re appealing to some pseudo-macho “never give up” outlook to being a fan. Understanding the importance of good draft picks is a far cry from wanting the team to lose just to grasp at straws in the draft. If the team was in a position to win, we wouldn’t be talking about next year’s draft before the season even started. Focus, you yourself predict that the team won’t even win 40% of their games this year. You know this team isn’t going anywhere this year, why not admit that it’d be nice to get the best possible pick in the draft if we’re not going to the playoffs?
I think it’s bad form to question other people’s fanhood. We’re all Bobcats fans here. We all prove it every time we take the time to leave a comment. I promise you that ever person here who embraces the rebuilding process enjoyed the win last night. If we make the playoffs this season, only the idiots are going to be complaining. But most people, including you, believe that we will make the playoffs this season. If the playoffs aren’t an option, as a fan, you have the luxury of hoping that we can acquire better players in the future. High draft picks are the cornerstone of that hope (because there’s empirical evidence that high draft picks can be a good thing).
By the way, if you want to tell me now that you believe that the Bobcats will make the playoffs this season, I’m still happy to put money on it. Until you’re willing to do the same, or at least make one of your infamous predictions, I’m going to assume that you at least acknowledge that the playoffs aren’t likely this season.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
“But most people, including you, believe that we will make the playoffs this season.”
That should read “will NOT make the playoffs this season”
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Again, you're completely ignoring the complexity of the situation.
This isn’t a black and white scenario where you either tank for a high draft pick or you put the team in the best position to win as many games right away.
The Bobcats have actively made many decisions that made them a worse team. Starting with trading Okafor, then trading Chandler, both times down grading the 5 spot, then letting Felton walk, trading away Wallace and Jackson, not resigning Kwame. All of the decisions made the team worse in the short-term. They also saved the team a lot of money. Part of rebuilding is putting the team in a position for high draft picks (i.e. winning fewer games than you otherwise would). That’s a reality that you seem to have a huge problem with. That’s different than saying we’re guaranteeing ourselves an allstar because we traded away Gerald Wallace.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
lmao!
I swear I was thinking something similar when I checked this thread after getting home from work, and seeing the direction this discussion has taken. Rec’d!
Newton for '11 ROY! (Update: Etch it in stone)
Walker for '11 ROY!
Biyombo for DPOY!
Aisander D...
Starting to get an internet “troll” vibe coming from you, homey. Is that you guy you want to be?
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
You just proved my point.
And no. I’m not a troll. Been here too long and been involved too much to qualify. Also, I enjoy making light of the frantic and sometimes over-reaching arguments that take place. People make good points, sometimes those good points then get extrapolated off the reservation. Then, I step in with a topical image and/or gif to lighten the mood. That is all.
Sounds like what a troll does to me
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Lol.
Nah, Aisander is cool. I think everyone is just getting a little too carried away with this debate because in the end we all really want the same thing.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Are your photos...
Obnoxious? Yes
Unnecessary? Yes
Off topic? Yes
Inflammatory? Possibly
If you want to add to a conversation, or stay completely out of a conversation, feel free. I support your decision either way. If you want to post ironic photos or gifs that serve no purpose beyond ridicule for the conversation, then you’re acting as a “troll.”
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure you're a perfectly nice guy
I’m sure you feel perfectly just in what you’re doing.
I see you as a troll.
I don’t mind humor, but all you’re adding is ridicule for other people, so why be here at all? You’re trolling.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
So serious....
ok, if you feel that strongly and butt hurt by my intended humor then I will refrain. Didn’t mean to hurt your feelings as I tried to lightening the mood…it is a sports chat board in the end. See you never!
You don't have to get upset
If you pay attention, I use sarcasm to make a point all the time. It’s a pretty common thing to do.
I’m just giving you a candid feedback on your contributions. I personally would love to hear what you have to say about the Charlotte Bobcats and the rest of the NBA. What I don’t care for is when you ridicule me and other people for having that conversation.
You want to add to the conversation? Great
You want to make fun of me for something I said? Bring it on. I have a sense of humor.
You want to ridicule the conversation itself? You’re a troll.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
no one likes trolls
trolls never “lighten the mood”, they just make it worse and make themselves targets
how Aisander D couldn’t have known that is beyond me
I've just noticed recently that that's all he tends to add to many conversations
I can’t help wondering what he actually thinks about basketball.
Again, Asiander D, I’m not saying this to alienate you. I’m just saying that it’d be nice if you contributed to the conversation if you have such a burning need to comment. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
ok I'll be sure to follow the strict rules of decorum...
Thanks for the heads up.
Also, let me know if I am correctly following the rules of grammar appropriate for this site.
by Aisander D on Dec 28, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sarcasm, that's original.
I’m trying to be friendly here, dude. But I’m also sharing my candid reaction.
Just take it for what it’s worth. I’m not trying to insult you or tell you what to do.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
"With the third pick of the 2006 NBA Draft, the Charlotte Bobcats select, Adam Morrison, Gonzaga."
by FirstCat on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, ok I'll give you a valid, non-sarcastic reply
I come to this site for three reasons:
1. Read opinions on the Bobcats and occasionally weigh-in
2. To joke around and hang out in the in-game threads
3. To post silly things when I feel like people are going a little over-board.
I’ve never insulted anyone or taken an extraordinarily extreme stance on anything. My contributions of late have been primarily short or image related. In years past, I have posted substantial arguments and Fanshots/posts. I’m here to have a good time, I’m a Bobcats fan – I watch 70-80% of their games, and I enjoy the people here on the whole.
If my posting of what I think (some others think) are useful or humorous images or posts actually annoy or inflame, then I’m more than happy for Ben to hit me with a Ban-Hammer. Or if you feel so strongly, please lobby him to Ban me. I’m ok with that.
Also, if this community has moved to a place where what I do is of no value and I am an annoyance, I’ll happily stop posting.
Seriously though, to me its a sports site, so everything that happens on here is No Big Deal, homie. We’re just a people arguing/chatting/joking/and sharing thoughts on a mutual interest. If I hav to leave because the majority of folks don’t like my stuff, that’s ok.
Me and MikeProcton can always go hang out on Bonnell’s blog and talk shit to him.
i was simply confirming
that indeed ur picture did fit the qualifications of a trolling post
then u made things worse with the sarcasm
i do not however feel nearly as strongly about this particular situation as my friend BR
No one is talking about banning anyone.
Take a big deep breath and calm down.
Ready to be reasonable? Good. I’m sharing my candid reaction to your non-contributions. I’m not gnashing my teeth or pulling out my hair. I have a sense of humor.
I’m just offering constructive criticism. Please stop taking yourself so seriously. You can take some criticism like a man.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
LMAO, oh the irony.
I’m not taking myself too seriously, just offering options if my contributions are not to your liking.
Aisander D
I think it’s hilarious. Some people take themselves too seriously. RoF used to be a place where you could have fun. It’s turned a little too tense for my liking as of late.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I've always wondered why people care so much, who says what?
As long as they are not offending people or posting propaganda or something.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
aisander D is cool
and always contributes nicely here on RoF. Even gives us frequent reasons to chuckle, as his above image demonstrates.
by Roger, Roger on Dec 28, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying he's not cool.
I think I’m being quite explicit about that.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Here's why your point #3 is completely off-base.
Note: My statistics were done from 1966-2008. Why? Because that’s the list of top draft picks that I found. This means my sample size is 43 players.
1. Of those first round picks, 11 were not All-Stars. That means the percentage that were All-Stars? 74.4%. (If Greg Oden gets healthy, he could easily become an All-Star. Likewise, Bogut still has a chance.) If that happens, this percentage increases to 79.1%.)
2. The top 50 at 50 list is now pretty old. It came out in 1996 and no player drafted before 1992 is on it. But from 1966-1992? Nine of them were on that list. That means that exactly 1 out of every 3 players drafted first from 1966-1992 became one of the top 50 players of all time.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 4:41 AM EST up reply actions
Any body else having a little more faith in Hendo as a starter?
And please focus dont answer this because we already know how you feel.
Good to see.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 6:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Are you admitting you're wrong about something?
If so, I got respect for you.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 27, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
I respect you too. I mean MUCH respect.
So go ahead and admit you’re wrong about tanking for the 1st pick :D
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Loved the testicular fortitude that the 'Cats showed after going down 14.
I’m eager to see if they step up the intensity against the Heat. The Heat has started the season looking like they want to prove something, so it should be a good gauge of where our team stands. Go Cats!
All Hail The Camtastic One!!!
Me, Bitches!
A strong game against Miami would make a statement.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 27, 2011 7:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Beating the Heat would be amazing.
Specially if Bismack Biombo’s LeBron.
14-1
Back on track to Super Bowl XLVI!
MattFlynn4StartingQB
imma say this and imma leave it alone
We dont have the best roster on paper. Our expectation isn’t very high. But I would never hope we lose. Its a losing mentality. Something I never had. I’ve kept quiet on the draft until recently but is it deep? Yes. Is it better than last year? Yes its better. But it is NOT full of team changing players. It would not kill us or set us back to have a 15th•20th pick. If u look at the top 5 prospects, NONE of them are team changers. Now it may be a hidden gem but it will be just that. HIDDEN. So for the sake of the real fans lets stop with the top 5 draft talk this season. Lets talk about getting better. Lets talk about the value of Maggs and Diaw (hint: its not a top pick. Its probably a player)…lets talk abt Tyrus’ future. The sad part is alot of you actually hope we lose tonite. I feel like when Williams comes back and if Diop does P90X, we could actually be better than advertised. Not champions, not top 5 but “better than advertised”…cut the losing mentality crap til the end of the season
by focuslja on Dec 28, 2011 9:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you on this.
And I agree with everyone else on this as well. I see all perspectives. And I think the key element missing is that, yes, we do try for wins. And yes, if that means playing Diop over Biyombo, then we do. But then, as they said, if it becomes apparent we’re not going to the playoffs, at that point, it becomes time to play Biyombo over him.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
But we should NEVER
embrace a losing attitude. I hope Kemba, DJ, and Gerald do push us into the playoffs and we have a series against Chicago or Miami like Indiana did last year and get our young players on the map and earning respect. Cam is trying to change the mentality of the Panthers through his leadership and I hope someone steps up and does it for the Bobcats. I think in the end we all want this team to do as well as possible and we are going to fight for the playoffs until we’re mathematically eliminated. Hopefully Bismack’s development isn’t so slow that playing Diop over him because it gives us a better chance to win can be an excuse throughout the whole year.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Cat Scratch Reader the Panther's SBN blog, just posted an article "The Folly in Losing for a Draft Pick"
It makes some solid points. Factor in the unpredictability of the NBA’s lottery and it’s even a greater folly.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
It all comes down to whether or not the rigged draft lotto is rigged for the Bobcats since MJ took on the role of the bad guy in the lockout or not,
Maybe Stern now “owes him one”
Since the balls are drawn behind closed doors…anything could happen
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Dec 28, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah that always bugs me
They show you the balls being shuffled, but when it’s time to draw them… No camera’s allowed. I wish they’d just axe the lotto all together.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 10:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
NFL just does worst record...right?
then works back from it?
Bobcats Basketball is my only pro sports passion...
by andrewlail76 on Dec 28, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I love a good conspiracy theory
But in fairness, each team has a representative at the drawing.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
But they are not in the room where the balls are actually "picked"
The balls are “picked” in a back room and brought to the stage in a sealed envelope where all the representatives are with the cameras. Granted this IS just a theory… but still very suspicious. Why use envelopes, and not just draw the balls on stage for all to see???
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
No, each team has a representative in the drawing room too
They are not allowed to bring cell phones or anything into the room and cannot communicate to anyone outside the room, including their team’s representative at the televised lottery stage. But each team gets to watch the drawing live.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
the lottery is stupid anyway
i see people praising it and some people even suggesting the NFL should use it, however, i firmly believe that for parity’s sake, the team with the worst record should get the first pick
I dont
if a team likes a player then they lose on purpose…nope.
teams still do it
despite the lottery
but i can only honestly think of one true tank or bust team, and that was the cavs
the nfl is too unpredictable and non fully gaurunteed contracts prevent teams from tanking… just like you’re probably gonna see indy and st louis both desperately try to win this week
It would set us back to have a 15th-20th pick.
To argue otherwise is silly. Explain to me how it does not set us back to not have a 1st round draft pick? And don’t forget, if we make the playoffs, our pick is gone (to Dallas?) from the Tyrus trade.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Because in focus world 15-20=1-5
Havent you heard none of the top 5 players will make our team better
thanks to focus and his amazing scouting skills
OK, now you're not even trying... You're just making wild accusations.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
If we make the playoffs, Chicago gets our pick
For the Tyrus Thomas trade.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
If we're already capable of making the playoffs, then build around what we got and forget the pick.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I was just stating a fact
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
If we're already capable of making the playoffs
Then a large part of that will be because of Diaw’s and DJ’s contributions, and they’ll be gone. It’s hard to build around a team that’s about to lose a couple of core players.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Uhm, if that was true we'd have made the playoffs last year
You’re giving them far more credit than I would.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
We changed coaches mid-stream.
Diaw did freakin’ amazing last game, if his stats are anything to go by (I didn’t watch the game). DJ did too. Whether it’s a small sample size or if this surge in productivity is due to a new coach/system, that remains to be seen. But if we do make the playoffs this year, it will be in no small part due to their contributions.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Boris will play well this season.
I think the addition of Silas and the removal of Jackson is all it takes to get him back to a 15-6-6 kind of game.
Diaw COULD play well every game, but he's friggin lazy
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
Im sorry but you cannot say that none of these picks are franchise changers
Most players that turn out to be them are not expected (Wade, Durant). Just saying dont act like it wouldnt help us out in the long term to get a top 5 player. Lets be clear im not arguing with the losing mentality so dont go off on a rant about that because I hope we make the playoffs but I know it is very unlikely and I am sick and tried of mediocrity it honestly makes me sick to think about us being a mddile tier team if we are not on the up. If that makes me a bad fan then go ahead and call me it because I know im a bigger fan then you and everyone on this site so you can take your losing mentality fan crap and shove it up your ass because I will never care what kind of fan some dude through a computer or in real life says I am.
we beat a bad team with no chemistry
by one point and you guys are talking about beating the Heat and making the playoffs
REALLY?
If Miami routs us tonight, I wonder what you guys will be saying tommorrow?
I want to be as optimistic as the next guy, but in order for us to even sniff .500, some players on this team are going to have to overachieve by a whole lot. Every team in the NBA had a short offseason, not just us. They’re all going to get better and more cohesive, too.
I wish we had a team that could make the playoffs, and considering how bad the bottom half of the East is, maybe we can get in under .500. But what’s more realistic, given our situation and our team and especially our schedule?
I’ll root for the Bobcats just as much as the next guy, but I’m not going to be disappointed at all of we’re the worst team in the East, AS LONG AS WE SHOW IMPROVEMENT and the Bobcats play hard night in and night out.
Nobody seriously thinks that dude. It's a hope and a prayer remarks while we have the opportunity.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
He didn't say impossible, he compared it to a "hidden gem"
Of course there’s a chance that we could pick the next Kevin Durrant. For all we know Kemba could be the next Superstar. But the facts are that if you look at our team’s (and the league’s) draft history, the odds of finding that game changer is NOT in your favor. So risking everything to hopefully beat the odds is NOT a good plan.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I know I'm beating a dead horse here
My bad. I’ll change the subject as soon as we wax the Heat tonight :P
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
by southtunnel on Dec 28, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
i'm sorry but your odds are way off base
sure you can go with the single number one pick, but we have been consistently talking about a top 5 pick this whole time
furthermore 8 of those players played before drafts or played in rival leagues first
ok the numbers have been compiled by myself
34 players in the NBA’s top 50 were top 5 picks, 2 of them were “territorial picks” (kind of think like an expansion draft, where only one team gets to pick them), including Wilt Chamberlain and John Havlicek.
Keep in mind that the NBA drafted ABA players, but the ABA didn’t always have a draft. So some players, like George Gervin, simply merged into the NBA from the ABA. Moses Malone was selected in the third round of the ABA draft, but his Utah team didn’t merge into the NBA and he was selected 5th overall by Portland in the disperal draft.
George Mikan began his career before the NBA even existed and was part of the BAA/NBL merger, so he’s eliminated from consideration.
Dolph Schayes, interestingly, was drafted as a top 5 pick in two seperate leagues!
So, 34 out of a possible 47 were top 5 picks.
Ok so would you rather have a 10-14 pick or a 1-5?
Which has the better chance? That is the only factor because every draft pick is a risk even Andrew luck in the NFL but everyone knows that you have a higher chance of drafting a superstar in the top 5.
I think he wants a top 5 pick,
but doesn’t want to see the team do anything to lose on purpose to achieve that pick.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
Which makes this whole debate about nothing in the end.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
Isn’t that what RoF is all about?
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Lol. Apparently so.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
That is a possibility most folks aren't mentioning
If Kemba becomes “the guy,” then we’re just looking for really good complementary players in the draft and that would be a great problem to have.
As for me, I don’t see a reason to get in any of these debates. I’m just going to hit the Cable Box every night and enjoy the ride.
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I've mentioned that possibility a few times.
Like I say, maybe Kemba is the superstar we’ve been looking for and we’ll spend the season talking about how we need to find players to compliment him like we are doing with Cam and the Panthers. Hell, maybe Dwight says “I want to play with Kemba” or something crazy like that. We don’t know. It’ll be a fun ride. What I do know is that Kemba is going to have every opportunity to turn into that star. He’s just gotta play like it.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Kemba is too undersized
to realistically become a centerpiece for an NBA team
anything is possible, but this is highly unlikely
CP3 and A.I. were undersized as well
and are/were legitimate superstars. I don’t think Kemba can win a championship as a centerpiece of a franchise (like A.I. or CP3), but I think the chances are high he can turn into a superstar and be a part of a “Big 3” or something of the sort.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
It is rare for a player Kemba’s size to be a star, but it’s not unheard of. He certainly has some elite skills.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
The reason I think the chances
are higher for Kemba is because not only is he a legitimately good player who lead his college team to a national title, but he has a nice personality and he has the leader of a brand (Jordan) basically banking on him succeeding. Even if Kemba comes out and averages 15 with poor shooting, his “legacy” will be boosted to the extreme because he is the new face of the franchise.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
kemba is not chris paul or allen iverson
he has a long way to go, especially defensively, to be near their level
as an exciting and important piece around a superstar, absolutely Kemba could be that kind of player, but I can’t see his ceiling being higher than that
People were saying many of the same things about CP3 and AI too
I agree that it’s hard to see him at their level right now, but I’m willing to be surprised by him.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
i don't recall anyone criticizing
the Iverson pick
you forget that AI destroyed players in college and already proved his size didn’t matter by being the centerpiece of that Georgetown team… Kemba wasn’t even the centerpiece of his own UCONN team
don't get me wrong
i want kemba to succeed as much as the next guy, but the same things i was critical about when we drafted him are the same things i’m still worried about
i’ll be very much satisfied if he becomes a fine supporting starter in the nba
whoa now.
Kemba wasn’t the center piece? I’m sorry, but I can’t agree with that
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Are you serious how was he not the centerpiece for Uconn?
Thats dumbe rthen some of the things Iv heard from Procton man. If he wasnt who was Jeremy Lamb? The dude was the leading scorer and the MVP
actually you're right
that was a dumb thing to say
for some reason i had imagines of jerome dyson throwing down jams over people
apparently, i’ve blocked kemba’s season from my mind because i’m a uk fan
Lol.
I was about to say. I was trying my best to think of who else was on that UCONN team that could be considered.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Oh good, you admitted you were wrong.
I was honestly dumbfounded for a second lmao.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 28, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Lmao.
That was an extremely ignorant post. Kemba was, without a doubt, the centerpiece of UConn. I don’t know how you can argue otherwise.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 28, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
More than that. Kemba would have been a top 3 pick if it wasn't for his height
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
I've never considered CP3 or AI elite defenders
My heart pumps no Kool-Aid
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 28, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
They get/got a lot of steals
But that’s can be a pretty misleading stat.
by Basketball Rambler on Dec 28, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
It really is.
They can play passing lanes good and anticipate the ball, but neither are really very solid defenders.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
they also both
have considerable lateral quickness and can stay in front of guys
so yeah, they are solid defenders
AI was a worse defender when he was gaurding SG’s, that’s unquestionably true, because they could shoot over him
They're no slouches on
D, but I would be Mario Chalmer’s or someone’s D over both of theirs.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
but I would put*
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
mario chalmer's
is gonna lose his starting job very soon though lol
It's already gone.
It’s a Cole World.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think he is.
Not many players are seen as franchise changers when they are drafted. A.I. came with A LOT of hype in the draft because he was that pure of a scorer. CP3 had the all around game to dominate. I don’t know exactly where Kemba would fit in as his style is not that of a player that takes 20+ shots a game or gets 10+ assists, but he’ll be a star. That’s my bold proclamation for this year.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Kemba might get there....
Defense is not preventing Kemba from being a superstar. Steve Nash was an elite player without playing good D. The reality is that great D isn’t required to be a superstar PG because of all of the other things that an elite PG brings to the table
Size = maybe. The trend seems to be moving towards bigger/stronger PG’s, like Derrick Rose, but Paul and Iverson represent notable exceptions.
We’ll have to wait to see if Kemba can score and run an offense like Paul and Rose. It’s an outside chance as to whether he gets 100% there, and he will have to grow his game significantly (better outside shooting is one example). That said, I think that the guy seems to have some of the intangibles and overall drive to improve to become a very good starter/borderline All-Star type player for a long time (think 18/6, ala Tony Parker). What we have to realize is that he can be awesome and still not be at Rose/Paul level (again, T. Parker is an example that comes to mind). I hope exceeds that but don’t think he’s shown enough to make it more that wishful thinking at this point. Would love to be wrong and him to be the next CP3, but at the same time I’m just happy that we drafted someone that is already “valuable” to the team and will be fun to watch play every game.
by CatsFan_Chris on Dec 28, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
those are exactly my realistic expecatations of Kemba
also steve nash led the league twice in offensive fouls drawn (charges), so his defensive position often gets overlooked because it doesn’t show up in box scores, but he’s a smart player who is able (or at least was) to help mask his defensive inadequecies
I m sorry but that argu,ent ,akes no sense how can you explain CP3 and AI
Who Kemba is listed taller then
cp3 and ai
had far better defensive awareness coming out of college than Kemba
and even then, cp3 struggles against big gaurds at times, too
Carmelo
is a very underrated defender, for starters
secondly, it DOES make a star PG
i said he SOMETIMES struggles
against bigger guards, like deron williams, for example
Okay so are a lot of players but that doesnt make them stars
Gerald Wallace is not a star and the point im trying to make is in the NBA if you can score and get assists which I believe Kemba can then you can have average defense and still be a star because defense is not the driving force behind a star.
name me one star worth building a team around
who isn’t at least an above average defender?
True
but I can name a couple of stars that I wouldn’t build a team around because they aren’t good defenders.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Although allow me to play devil's advocate on my own point.
There’s two ways to build a team:
1) to win
2) to make a profit.
Those are different goals. You don’t need to win to make a profit, though it helps. I’m assuming that you care about building a team around winning, but there is a different strategy around building a team to make a profit. Stars you would take for the first are not necessarily the same ones you would take for the second.
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
i have been strictly speaking
about building a championship contending team
Your still not getting my point he doesnt have to be a great defender
What is wrong with average? CP3 and AI are average and so is Carmelo and Amare no matter what you say they are. Why does Kemba have to be an elite defender as long as he is an elite scorer he can get away with average D, I dont understand what is so hard to comprhend about that.
cp3 and AI
are above average… above average plus elite skills in other areas = superstar
carmelo’s defense is underrated and he’s also a good rebounder for a scoring forward
amare is a poor man defender but he is one of the best help defenders in the league (ala camby)
if kemba becomes an elite 22 ppg scorer than great, but he’s not gonna be considered a star unless he contributes in multiple areas
NOW granted he did show some really good rebounding ability in college and in the game against the bucks, perhaps that will help set him apart from other point gaurds
but i can’t think of many star point gaurds who aren’t also at least above average defenders
i can’t think of ANY point gaurds who are the centerpiece of their team who aren’t above average defenders
that’s what you guys are saying Kemba could be… the centerpiece of our team
i’m saying he’ll most likely be a supporting starter at best
We have already debunked CP3 and AI as above average
The only good thing they did good was getting steals, I personally and this is just my opinion is they are average. I have never seen CP3 or AI play great D. A great defender at PG is Rondo and I think he is miles ahead of both of them in the D department.
no you didn't debunk that
you mistakenly posted that they get in lanes and get steals
when you utterly ignored their ability to stay in front of their man and fight through screens… especially AI
so you just posted a mistatement, you didn’t “debunk” anything
I have never seen this so called abiltiy
To stay in front of their man or at least CP3 im sorry but they are average maybe above average but only a noth or 2 above
let's use numbers
since 2008-2009, chris paul’s adjusted +/- has been top 5 in the league
currently, he’s #1 after 2 games
and he’s never had a defensive rating below 100
AI finished several seasons with a higher d rating than o rating and never below 99 (as high as 116)
based on what?
how he “handled” shaun livingston?
based on his performances
in his three games so far this season and games against elite pg’s from his college career
how many points did the PG's for the Bucks score?
Kemba was as equally inept at stopping them as Kemba was.
Kemba gaurding Liv head to head, Liv got 10 points.
Kemba gaurding Jennings head to head, Jennings got 8 points (in 6 minutes)
what i hear
is that you’re saying Kemba could be Steve Nash
however, what about Kemba’s court vision and past tells you he can get those kind of assists numbers? to me, kemba is more like Brandon Jennings… he can score, with inconsistent efficiency, and get assists if his teammates are on (explaining his inconsisten assist numbers).
i, of course, will be quite satisfied if his ceiling is jennings… he’’ll be considered a top gaurd in the east, probably make 1 or 2 all star games (which will also depend on if deron williams goes back west or not)
If you want to bash his defense fine but dont bash his passing ability
He is no Nash but he should have had at least 6 assists the other night he had 3, Maggette missed the ally oop, Henderson missed and open 2 and Carroll missed 2 open 3’s and im sure there are more great passes that will be ignored because the other players did not hold up their end of the deal.
dude that's not fair either
players miss shots… period
im sure CP3 would aveage 20 assists per game if everytime he passed it to someone they made their bucket
he got 3 assists…
No it is fair because Nash and Pauls players make their shots
WE HAVE NO SHOOTERS ARE INSIDE POST PLAYERS. How do you expect him to distribute? I mean Im sure the next argument coming up is that DJ got 8 assists but DJ is a veteran and has chemistry with everyone and it is almost proven no PG’s coming off the bench average a lot of assists go and name one PG coming off the bench right now that averages more then 5 assists besides Rubio. 3 assists for a backup guard is good, I see no proof that he cannot average 8 APG.
so you're saying
because DJ has chemistry with players, they’re magically able to make their shots more accurately?
Im saying that when you have chemistry
You know eachothers moves better and what your going to do. Are you seriously going to argue with me that being a veteran and chemistry with teamates does not help your assists total then my freind your starting to sound like MP.
that's not what i said at all
you said kemba hit guys wide open, as did dj (you brought up dj not me), then you said that they had better chemistry with DJ and because of that, DJ got more assists
it’s reasonable to assume (and you don’t have to assume ify ou watched the game) that dj passed to guys who were open several times
what does chemistry have to do with hitting a shot whiile being wide open?
Im saying right now DJ is a better distributor
And he predicted their movement better then Kemba, it make a difference
that's funny
when his career averages so far are 16ppg and 5.4 assists, and the ppg are sure to go up this season
Kemba will still be better
Im going to make a bold prediction and say Kemba will at least in the prime of his career average 20 PPG and 6 assists at least.
as will jennings
and if kemba reaches that point, he’s STILL a supporting starter, not a centerpiece
Add those stats with being an average D and he will be
I agree with you that he will atleast be a supporting starter but I dont see how you can lay the foundation for an argument that he will not be a star. I mean he was in college he was the Cam Newton of basketball last year, alot of people already know his name and he is more of a star then Jennings as far as fame goes.
just arguing semantics
but brandon jennings was pretty hyped coming into the nba as the first guy to choose playing in europe as opposed to going to college because of the dumb 1 and done rule
and you don’t really agree with me because i think “at best” he will be a supporting starter… i would love for kemba walker to become our elite player to build a team around, but as it stands right now he is too small too gaurd NBA point gaurds consistently and doesn’t make up for it in other areas (ala cp3 and ai), and to be a star and a centerpiece, he’s gonna need to be an above average, if not elite defender
those are my points, they are valid and reasonable and i don’t think anyone could rationally argue that my outlook of kemba’s career is more likely to happen than him become a superstar
yes
CP3 because of his assists and iverson because of his scoring titles
you can’t possibly suggest that kemba will be a league leader in assists? he could possibly win a scoring title if he becomes more effecient though
It is possible Kemba will win the scoring title
But he has what it takes to average the same as Rose. And im going to tell you this even if you think Carmelo and Amare are underrated defender, but the majority opinion is that they are bad defenders and the majority opinion is what makes a star. So if sense majority opinion makes a star and majority opinion says they are bad defenders then shouldnt that mean they shouldnt be stars based on your logic? If you disagree with that then we will have to agree to disagree but I think you are overvaluing defense as a major factor as a star.
they might be stars
but i certainly wouldn’t build my team around either of them, particularly amare
the whole point i’ve been grinding here is that i can’t envision kemba being a player to build a team around and have success… no one’s had success building around melo or amare yet, either…. new york had to go get a defensive stopper to keep up with miami and boston
there are plenty of stars in the NBA, kemba certainly could be one simply based solely on name, i never said he couldn’t be, but i don’t think he can be a superstar and a centerpiece
It's too early to judge Kemba as a defender.
I’d prefer waiting until we had a full season of data before I create a conclusion about his defense, good or bad.
by Panthers FTW on Dec 28, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
i was just typing the same thing
i’m willing to give him time, i’d even give him two seasons (given the shortened season and no camp) to learn to play defense in the nba
Sure. But I'll go ahead and proclaim him a better defender than DJ
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
You might be right, but so far Kemba looks special
He comes across as having much more determination and improvisation than an undersized PG like DJ.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
those are true statements
asterisk… dj augustin shouldn’t be the benchmark to hold any point gaurd to
I'm just comparing because they are both undersized
DJ could be great if he didn’t lack confidence. I don’t see confidence hindering Kemba though… He’s hungry… that’s my point.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
my favorite stat from the game
advanced statistic
Byron Mullens – True Shooting % – 71.4
likeabawz
Lol.
You remember me telling you a long time ago that not every OKC cast off was a total waste? I think we were arguing over DJ White or something.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Lol.
It’s all good.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Hollinger on his All-Breakout Team:
Gerald Henderson, Charlotte.
Again, the pre- and post-All-Star stats are telling. After Paul Silas took over and installed Henderson as his starting shooting guard, he averaged 14.3 points per game. With a brutal roster around him, the 24-year-old third-year pro will average around 35 minutes per game and could land a scoring average around 16 a game.
More importantly, however, he’s an emerging force as a defensive stopper. Although he’s short for a wing at 6-4, Henderson is an excellent athlete and has good technique. The recognition for his play on this end may be slower in coming around, but he’ll be a long-term starter because of it.
I think Hendo will end up averaging 17+
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
But he's really just so terrible.
Lol. When Hollinger’s punk ass gives the Bobcats any kind of respect on anything you know it has to be legit.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm excited by the development we could see from a couple players this season....
Henderson being numero uno in this category.
He's going to do really well.
I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 28, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Hendo's game is that of a SF, but he has the body of a SG
And because of this he will likely never be ideal.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
that's a rediculous statement
basically, you’re putting positions into a box
the game of a sf? so sg’s can’t be great defenders and absolutely MUST create their own shot?
k focus
i mean remember
how many points deshawn stevenson scored? wasn’t it awe-inspiring to see him lift up that MVP trophy?
Ideally yes
Should the ideal “shooting” guard be able to “shoot” really well, yes. I’m not saying he’s not starter quality. But for a team that struggles to score, this is a weakness.
This is how I roll, animal print pants out control.
so it's ok that we don't
get scoring from the 4 other positions, but darn it, the SG has to score in this league!
Disagree.
There are two words to that position, “Shooting Guard.” Let’s take other two word combinations and see what happens, shall we?
“Elephant shoes” —> This obviously means I love you shoes for an elephant, not an elephant & shoes.
“Black Pepper” —> Pepper that is black.
“Lemon squash” —> Squash that tastes lemonadey.
My point? The second word is the most important. Shooting Guard? Someone who guards against shooting. Duh.
(This little bit of irreverence brought to you by the letters S & G.)
by Tim Rudisill on Dec 28, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
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