Rebuilding the Cats Into A Championship Contender
Ya know, the Charlotte Hornets were actually a pretty good team. I don't know what makes so many people forget, I often forget myself, but for a few years, the Hornets were actually one of the top teams of the eastern conference. I've almost convinced myself that we actually would've been in the Finals or Conference Finals for a year or two if our current owner, Michael Jordan, hadn't been there to take us out like a cold blooded assasin everytime. Looking back on things, we were actually just a small part of a bigger picture that saw Jordan come in and abuse, basically, the entire league. Add the Hornets up there with teams and people that Jordan's heroics ruined. Also on the list.....the New York Knicks, Cleveland Cavaliers, Utah Jazz, Charles Barkley, the Atlanta Hawks, and anybody else that was around at that time competing for the ultimate goal, an NBA title.
We may just be in a similar predicament this year and for the next few years with LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh holding down the Heat, the Big Three Team in Boston of Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo etc., etc., and the other "dynasties" that I foresee popping up with the Chicago Bulls and the New York Knicks, especially if Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul end up in Madison Square Garden. That's not even mentioning squads like the Orlando Magic and Atlanta Hawks, who could get better or worse over the years, but only seem to be getting better with time. So, let's face it, for the next few years, unless we start building a super squad of our own, we'll probably end up stuck in 6th place or worse for years to come. And since that's the case, what's the rush to rebuild? Peep my logic.
To me, the Bobcats under Larry Brown were a completely different team. In my To Rebuild Or Not To Rebuild post a few weeks ago, I labeled them as the worst team in the NBA. And I don't think I'll get too many people on the site to disagree about that statement because it was absolutely terrible (as Simon Cowell, or Barkley would say) the way we were playing and the sense of urgency we were playing with. On most nights, we looked like just another team being ran off the floor at a local gym by the super team that somehow came together during the picking of the squads when you weren't there. And, that happens in the NBA sometimes. However, that doesn't make up for losing by THIRTY to the Wizards, without John Wall at that. While they are the same team on paper with the coaching change being the only thing of signifcance, I feel as though we are now actually a pretty decent team, and far from the worse.
I won't get too much into the change of philosophy and confidence for the team, the results speak for themselves. However, what I feel like getting into today is the rebuilding that we were so ready to embrace a few weeks ago. With the way the team is playing, I just don't feel the need to. And with the way the Eastern Conference is shaping up, I think it's even more vital for us to stay in the state that we are currently in.
I'm open to making some moves to improve the team, but what move is going to really be made to push us over the top (wherever that is)? I don't really think there is one out there. Whether it's acquiring Jason Thompson, or Chris Kaman, or Troy Murphy, I don't think these deals make us better in the short term, or long term. A few points to illustrate my point (original right?) on why we should stand pat and my new plan for the future.
1. It's just not realistic to be aiming for a championship right now:
Like I say, it's just not that feasible right now to see the Bobcats contending for a championship next year or 5 years from now, so why not be happy with where we are at? The Heat (barring injury) are only going to become more dangerous over the years as none of their core 3 are even in their prime yet. The Knicks look to be in a decent position to bring in Melo and CP3 in the coming years, so that's going to be another big three we are going to have to deal with. Then, add on top of that the ever improving Chicago Bulls and the immortal Boston Celtics, and at best we're a 5 seed. The only thing we can hope for is fhat the Magic and Hawks give up on their goals and get into rebuilding mode, or that Dwight Howard parts for the Lakers to get out of the East. Either way, point being, we are going to have to be EXTREMELY lucky with our moves to put ourselves in position to make a run.
2. We won't get fair value in return for any offers we make:
Everyone knows this, and that's the reason I shoot down a lot of trades brought up on the site (sorry if I offend anyone). First of all, there is no one out there in free agency that is going to help us next year and there is no way that we can put ourselves in position to sign the top players. We're already over the salary cap as is, and trading away Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, or Boris Diaw won't do much to help that next year. Nazr Mohammed is coming off the books, but we will still have a ton of money committed to the cap unless we move at least 2 of our core players from the books. I just don't see the purpose when the free agent market isn't attractive at all for our needs (dominant big man, young scorer) and there already being several teams out there with younger core players and a lot of cap room to spare already (Sacramento Kings, Minnesota Timberwolves, Houston Rockets, New York Knicks, Indiana Pacers, Washington Wizards...etc.) Basically, any free agent that we get next year is going to come because they are in love with the city of Charlotte or couldn't get a deal anywhere else. So throw free agency out the window. If' we're not getting draft picks back (which we wouldn't be under most scenarios), then trading our best players for cap space is only going to have us going backwards on the court. Other than a few young guns that we would have to overpay for, no one on the market is going to come in and be able to duplicate the contributions that Crash, Jax, or Boris are giving us. So what are we looking forward to?
3. M.J. promised the city of Charlotte that the Bobcats will be in the playoffs, because he knows they need to:
Let's not forget that although we on R.O.F. may be willing to go through another rebuilding period, the city of Charlotte may not be able to. The team needs to make money now and can't afford to wait 3 or 4 years to have another playoff atmosphere. With all of the cost cutting that Jordan has been doing, there is no reason to think that he can't use every dollar he gets. He's going to lose A LOT of money of the Bobcats fall out of playoff contention or their franchise faces are traded away for money. The Tyson Chandler trade didn't hurt too bad because he was basically only here half a year, but trading Crash would have a more negative effect. Especially if it's for money.
So, what do I suggest? I think it'll actually do us a lot better to just sit still and wait for the storms at the top of the eastern conference to pass. We should make our move in 2012/2013. Why?
1. Because this is the year that we will be free from all of the doom and gloom Bob Johnson's staff put us in. That year, all of our "trash" right now turns into gold. Stephen Jackson can drop 40 points on any given night, but the best package we can get is an expiring contract like Caron Butler's? No! Not right in my eyes. Like I say, if we're not getting draft picks back, we're only hurting ourselves. How about let's wait a couple of years so we can be on the opposite side of the spectrum. The only way to upgrade your team in the NBA is through assets, whether they are draft picks or actual players. Since trading away future draft picks at this time should be a complete no no, our players are the only assets we have. And in my eyes, players are like stocks. Being a fringe playoff team ini the east has dropped everyone's stock severely, but I promise in 2 years, they'll probably be the highest that they've ever been.
Crash will be a 30 year old SF on an expiring 11.50 million contract. Barring injury, he'll be one of the best trade pieces on the market in the whole NBA that year. We could squeeze a lot more than a trade exception out of a team for him then.
Stephen Jackson will be 35 and on an expiring 10 million dollar deal. Although I don't see his stock getting much higher because of his age, it'll still undoubtedly be higher than it is now. I don't think his play will fall off too much by then and teams would still be willing to give him a shot to push them over the edge because his "toughness" will never fade.
And get this, even Desagana Diop and Matt Carroll will be off the books that year, making them valuable trade pieces, or letting the misery that is their contracts finally expire.
So, basically what I am saying, is are we really trying to fool ourselves into thinking that jumping head first into blowing the team up is going to get us on a level to compete with the Heat and Knicks? I think staying as we are (not adding salary unless making trades to net us draft picks) is the best way to go. And staying pat doesn't mean we'll be locked into this cycle for years, it just means being happy being a fringe playoff team this year and next. The 2013/14 Bobcats are going to be our biggest opportunity to right this ship.....
PG D.J. Augustin (Shaun Livingston team option)
SG Stephen Jackson exp 10 mil (Gerald Henderson)
SF Gerald Wallace exp 11.5 mil (Derrick Brown)
PF Tyrus Thomas (Maybe Boris at a lower salary)
C ? (Maybe our draft pick from this year)
I just think as a franchise, we'll be in a better place to make moves later as long as we resist feeling the absolute need to make moves now.
60 comments
|
11 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
CB, you make a good case for that strategy...
the only problem is MJ is not going to live with that over the next 1-1/2 seasons at the cost he’s bearing. Yes, he wants the Cats in the playoffs, but he also needs more salary relief. That’s not my desire, it’s MJ’s. Therefore I look at options that can help us achieve that and still keep building toward our future…even if it means the current state of the team slips for a short while.
OurDay said it, and I both trust his info and agree: if this team continues to lose ground to the playoffs over the next week or 2, big changes will be made. I try to find ways to make a change that can still help us now but especially in the long term, while saving MJ money.
And that's what's killing me.
M.J. truly expects to make a winner out of a team and not spend any money. I don’t see an owner in that state of mind ever really putting together a winner. Once you start clearing out the team for money, you end up with all this money left over, and realize there is no one there to spend it on. You end up like the Nets did with Travis Outlaw, Johan Petro, and Jordan Farmar. M.J. needs to stop being so cheap because we’re already under the luxury, so it’s not really going to do the franchise any good. It’s only going to do his pockets good. I’m not interested in having an owner penny pinching at every turn.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 20, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
But don't get me wrong, I have no problem with that plan.
If the team can’t make the playoffs in this weak east, then it deserves to be obliterated. However, I think we can end up challenging for the number 6 seed in the end of NY continues to struggle.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 20, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
And here is something interesting about the Luxury Tax as I learned today.
The luxury tax is paid by teams that go over the cap. We all know that part. But what you may not know, and I doubt Jordan knows, is that the luxury tax payments go to the less profitable teams ( hint: Bobcats ). So Jordan would actually spend less money through the luxury tax, than lets say the Lakers.
Out with the bad Old, in with the good Old
- Rufus on Fire, where even the signatures hold significance
by T-TIME, I MEAN DUNK TIME on Jan 20, 2011 5:25 PM EST reply actions
I had heard something like that before,
but was never quite sure how it worked out.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 20, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Luxury tax money is dumped in an account, then divided up evenly amongst all non-tax paying teams. Being under that line saves a ton of money.
Exactly
And that payout is roughly $5 million for each team that is under the tax. And I GUARANTEE that MJ knows that!
Oh no! We suck again!
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 21, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
I love this post.
Little lengthy, but well worth reading the whole thing. This is should be front page.
Devout follower of the Franimal and the Basa-viour.
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.
rec this guys
please. it’s something that we should be reminded of.
Devout follower of the Franimal and the Basa-viour.
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.
by HAWKEYESBABY on Jan 20, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Another argument for NOT blowing it up this season....
This draft blows. You destroy a team to get good draft picks. It’s one thing to tank and get LeBron or Durant. To tank and get a mediocre player (think 2006 where the top picks were Bargnani, Aldridge, Morrison…) is just pointless. Nobody in this draft is changing the future of an entire franchise.
Yeah, I'm worried about this draft as well.
Star wise, it’ll be the weakest we’ve had in years. There may be some decent talent in there. We’re gonna have to make this pick matter since we can’t trade it though.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 20, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
nbadraft.net's current mock draft
has us getting Tyler Honeycutt (UCLA) with a #10 pick, and Jon Leuer (Wisconsin) at number #40.
course this means very little at this point
by Roger, Roger on Jan 20, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
I've seen Honeycutt
He’s a player. Lots of length and he looked to take over in a close game. Looked like he needed some bulk, but a solid utility player. At 10? Exactly the problem…
I should have seen Leuer, but Wisconsin demolished State so I didn’t see much…
Our only hope is to shop overseas.
The CBA is going to scare a lot of underclassmen into playing another year of college ball, so unless someone’s already a senior and about to graduate, there is no reason to declare. Why take the risk of not having a degree and being unpaid because of a lockout? Do you think the player’s union is really going to pay out some of its crisis fund to cover players that haven’t even worn a pro uni? That coin is going to go toward helping players making the league minimum that are unable to follow union recommendations and save part of their salaries back to help weather the storm.
Considering the recently announced fact that the owners are even refusing to meet for a couple of hours with the players during the All-Star break, the lockout is a virtual certainty.
P.S. - Is it an interim fling or a permanent bromance?
by Ourdaywillcome on Jan 22, 2011 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
That's a very good point that has been in the back of my mind
Since if we’re successful next season our pick goes to the Bulls in a deep draft this gives us even more reason to stockpile picks.
I think a deal gets completed in the 11th hour but the owners are going to have to make concessions. A lockout could obliterate the NBAs fan base.
I feel the same way
But all the analysts disagree, saying they don’t expect the CBA to prevent lottery picks from declaring.
Talk to me in 3 weeks...
and if we’re all being completely honest with ourselves Crash is a shell of his former self. Let’s look at his accomplishments… made the All-star game (very disappointing) dunk contest (even more disappointing) 1st Team All-NBA defense and was then invited to Team USA camp (he didn’t impress)
The impression I get from this guy is once he accomplishes his goals he simply stops there, and doesn’t strive for anything more and become complacent. That word “complacent” would be exactly how I would describe his season so far. I’ll agree he’s a fan favorite, but if he loves this city so much lets trade him and let him play out his overpaid contract and bring him back much cheaper in 2 years to retire a Bobcat. We can’t keep overpaying talent (Okafor, Crash, Tyrus) unless they’re going to put us over the hump, not keep us on the hump or still climbing up the hump. Fact is we currently only have a few bargain contracts on our team at the moment. DJ, Hendo, Kwame, & yes I’ll say it, McGuire. Not even sure with the way the FO has treated him if once he’s due to be re-signed if DJ will re-sign here. Not even sure if the fans want him to stay.
If teams offer 1st round picks for any of our players they need to go, however they would need to be lottery picks to listen for Hendo and DJ since they’re cheap talent at the moment.
This board as a whole has gotten into a problem of over-valuing our own talent. We’re simply not going to pluck any major pieces away with what we have to offer, even if we included DJ, and our current roster has a maximum ceiling of a win or two in the first round.
I realize you wrote this before the Tyrus Thomas news, but to me that seals the deal. Last year’s playoff run was phenomenal beating team that were superior to us, being nearly unbeatable at home the last 3 months of the season. The honeymoon was fun but then we hit the real world and the “love” just wasn’t enough. The marriage just isn’t work, not to say we won’t miss each other from time to time. I am a Crash and Jax fan, and would love to see succeed in their next stop, but above all I want to see the Bobcats succeed.
by JDuaneHipps on Jan 21, 2011 11:37 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
if wallace is so terrible
how could we expect to get anything of value out of him
the entire bobcats team was terrible to start this season, are they ALL shells of their former selves? Crash hasn’t been 100% healthy since Silas took over and has had to adjust to a new coaching style. We’ve seen other players (D-Brown, Jax) struggle in this new style, so it’s reasonable to expect Crash to have a learning curve, too.
I don’t want to trade him, but trading him now would be idiotic. We need to give him a bit more time to either a) cement his place in the Bobcats “new” look or b) considerably raise his trade value. Those two options far weigh trading him now and avoiding option c) he continues to get worse and his trade value only declines. Option C, given the circumstances, is the least likely to happen.
+1
That’s my whole point on Crash. He’s been hurt so we really don’t know what he looks like under Silas. I mean, sure he’s had a couple of games under him, but that’s not nearly enough time to see how good/bad he could be in this new look offense. I hope Crash comes out and drops 30 and has another 15 rebound game to silence the critics for a while.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
There are moments that I think both could or should go if we got back the magic formula...
Couple both Crash and Jax with another player and deal them in seperate trades for a young promising player and an expiring. Cap space is important to the survival of this franchise. Jax is (frankly) more valuable here than Crash now, but either or both could go in the right deals. And I’m not talking about over-value trades (agree we place these guys much higher than the league does). I suggested Troy Murphy as a great option, and some said he was garbage. Well, 3 playoff bound teams are said to be wanting him if he’s bought out by the Nets. Would they trade for him? Maybe, but I suspect the Nets want the cap space! Maybe they’d deal for Crash, who is no Melo but he can bring some quality to the SF spot right away.
I think its unfair
to want to trade the face and cornerstone of our franchise after one bad half of a season (which is still better than 90% of forwards out there) when he just had one of the most rediculous statistical seasons in recent memory
i just can’t see trading a player with as good an all around game as Crash’s and then not getting someone good enough to replace him
I like Wallace
I just think his game is an all around game. I have said this a couple of time buts Jax should be playing the 3. He is a tougher match up than Wallace is. Wallace is a heck of a player but to me his game is a lot like Marion in Dallas. Good player but can only hurt you mostly with transition buckets and hustle. Jax is more like Paul Pierce. He can hurt you inside and out.
I think Crash is a threat from outside.
Obviously he’s no Ray Allen, but I’ve seen Crash hit 3 or 4 3’s in multiple games this year. His mid range is also around 50%. I really don’t think he’s that bad at shooting.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Mechanics wise his jumper is trash...
He shoots a flat ball and has to really be on to be hitting his shot. Let me state this first I’m not comparing him to just anyone in the league, he’s an above average player, but almost anyone in the league can hit 3 or 4 threes in a game if they’re on that night.
A half a year of playing poorly...
but he has reached the maximum potential
Even if he has,
what would be the point in dumping him unless we’re getting a player that’s better or can be better. Okafor had reached his maximum potential here as well. But now look what’s happening. We’re “desperate” for a starting center who can do what Okafor can do. It’ll be the same if we traded Crash.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
How is cap important to the survival of the franchise?
I mean, of course it’s important to everyone some form or another, but how is it that important to the Cats? Have we ever even signed a free agent for anything above $3 million a year? Money is important to the franchise for resigning players, but cap space hasn’t helped us since we’ve been here, and I’m not sure how much it would help us now. As for Murphy, like I say, he’s decent. But if playoff teams are interested in him, trust me, it would be in a role to come off the bench. Now that Tyrus is hurt, I could see it being a beneficial move for us to sign him.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is...
We have no money to sign Murphy we would have to trade for him… Getting him would take us either trading Jax or Crash. It’s as simple as that. He won’t sign to come play with us when he can sign to go play with a contender and have a chance at a championship.
The intention is not to re-sign Murphy next year...
utilize his services this season while Tyrus is out, and absorb the salary space provided by his expiring next season. It’s possible he could be signed on a much cheaper contract, but if not, you’re still sitting here with an expiring Diaw and Tyrus a the start of next season.
The franchise cannot bleed out $. Jordan has funds but he’s no billionaire. If things got really bad he may persuade Stern to conduct a league buyout in order to vaporize the team. I know the lease is strong, but MJ will fund a team to the max if it’s not a true contender. He’d rather start over with less expensive youth and hope to draft successfully. That’s why you will see a trade or 2 that creates breathing room on the expense side of the ledger.
It's not about the players!
It’s about the money. That’s what we’re trying to convey to you. I don’t know if you’re a season ticket holder or not or how much money you spend on Bobcats items, but Jordan is losing money. I like what he’s done with the team but when he purchased the team instead of Postolos we had to expect something like this. Jordan is rich yes, but he doesn’t have “big boy” money. He’s probably the poorest majority owner of an NBA team by far.
I think as pointed out by Ourday in another thread if they don’t show signs of being in the playoffs in a few weeks, the fire sale will begin.
I realize that it's about the money,
my point to you is that making the playoffs will generate a lot more money than rebuilding the team. As I’ve said several times over the past few weeks, I don’t think Jordan has enough cash to be trusted to field a winning team and if that’s the case he should get the hell out now. I as a fan want to see this team do well. I don’t give a damn that Jordan is losing money. He shouldn’t have stepped into it if he doesn’t have enough to just pay out these salaries. And the way the team is constructed, damn near every player on the roster is essential to a playoff run. Jordan removing any of them puts a huge dent in our playoff chances. I don’t now, but something tells me that Jordan won’t go broke just paying out the rest of these years for these players instead of trying to sell just to get rid of players. You’re talking about Jordan’s money, not the team’s. Again, I’m not interested in making Michael Jordan money, I’m interested in seeing a winning team on the floor. If Jordan goes cheap now “because we’re not a contender”, what makes you think he’ll ever break that cycle?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
Say most of the contracts are paid this year
and we throw them out. Even if we make the playoffs this year and the next and the next. There is no way we could hope to recoup the 40 mil owed to Crash and Jax over that time period.
Steph Curry is rumored to be available for the right price. He would solve both problems but getting him would cost this team a lot. He would fill seats like never before and save money in the long run. That’s a long shot
The things Bassnote brought up is Jax and Crash don’t play well together anymore. Hendo moves well without the ball, neither Crash nor Jax do, and they need to iso’s to be effective. I’m sorry but it’s hard to run iso’s for two wings on the same team.
There is no way Jordan could recoup that 40 mil owed.
That has no bearing on the product of the court. Like I say, if he can’t just stay afloat for a couple of seasons then he may as well get out now. There are several of teams in the league worst in standings and in cap room. He made one move to cut trim salary for nothing and he should be content with the 13 million he saved on Tyson already. I mean, damn, how much money is he trying to save up? It’s not like most of the money invested in team is actually his anyway. And I get your point about Crash and Jax not playing all too well together, but Jax can still play the SG spot. Basketball isn’t really that influenced by who plays what position better to the point where the fall off is going to be drastic. Whether at SG or SF, Jax is going to be ineffecient and Wallace is going to do what he does. Saying that moving Jax to SF would get him out of his shooting slump just doesn’t work for me. Besides, I’d rather have Wallace or Jax as a 6th man than just trading them. That’s the most effective strategy I can think of, because I do understand and agree with where you are coming from. We should have a player as smooth and fluid as Hendo manning the SG spot instead Jax or Crash.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
About that All-Star game and the stupid over hyped dunk 'contest'
While Wallace was no doubt glad and honored to become an All-Star, as well as being asked once more to participate in the dunk ‘contest,’ I think he realized the importance of keeping himself injury free and healthy to provide his best effort and contribution for the Bobcats to push and make it to the playoffs. As a result, I don’t think he wanted to push himself too much during the All-Star weekend, for fear of injury, since he was one of the league leaders in minutes played per game. And for the dunk ‘contest’ you definitely could tell he took it easy.
by Roger, Roger on Jan 21, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
+1
A dunk contest should never be used in any way to measure a player’s value anyway.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Both showings were highly disappointing tho...
I don’t think he was concerning himself with being injury free
Just last year, Wallace's contract was touted
as one of the best bargains in the NBA and I stil feel as though it is. Obviously he has been underwhelming this year, but I attribute that mostly to the problems that Larry’s demeanor was having on the whole team. Throughout the Paul Silas era, he has been mostly hurt so I don’t think it’s fair to judge him so quickly. He did basically just will us to victory just a couple of games ago with his fourth quarter play and rebounding. Wallace’s production really hasn’t declined at all from what we’re used to. I think the fact that he doesn’t have the monster rebound stats and the team has more options to go to now is making him look a little worse. However, when watching the games, I still see the same player, getting back on the fast breaks to block shots, hitting a good percentage of his jumpshots, and constantly attacking the rim. The only thing that worries me about Wallace now is the same thing that’s always worried me, when is he going to take major injury? Other than that, I don’t question his heart or hustle one bit, because the whole team was in a funk with Larry in charge.
It would just be terribly foolish for us to trade D.J. at this point. I don’t even see why that would be discussed. Hendo is establishing himself now as well. Who knows what we have on our hands?
I don’t think we’re overvaluing the talent at all. It’s just that so many people have taken an owner’s approach to building a team when we should be speaking from a fan’s perspective. Like I say, saving money doesn’t interest me. If you say we need to make space for a player by trading him away, I need to see what player you intend on signing with that created cap room or who we risk losing by not having money to sign back. Most of the trade scenarios brought up leave us worse than we are now on the court and put us in position to be worse for the future. Sure, we’ll have cap room, but like I say, who the hell would there be to sign? It’s a pattern I’ve noticed time and time again in the NBA. Teams dump everything they have for the right to not pay players and then realize that there is no one out there to pay anyway. So, either those teams do like Minnesota and Sacramento have done the past 5 or so years and operate under the cap waiting for a superstar to land in their laps through the draft, or they foolishly overspend for whatever is left on the market like Detroit did with Villanueva and Gordon and New Jersey did with Petro (who they are already trying to trade), Outlaw, and Farmar.
I don’t believe that we really know what our maximum ceiling is. Don’t let Larry Brown’s flawed game plan against Orlando have you thinking the team is just ready to get swept out of every round. We are a team that can compete with anyone (except the Mavericks and Celtics) on any night. Like I say, the point right now shouldn’t be aiming for a championship, but just to make improvements. Whoever would’ve thought we could possibly be a 7th place team in the improved East while replacing Tyson Chandler with Kwame and dropping Raymond Felton for Shaun Livingston? That’s the overall goal right? Maintain a playoff presence while getting younger. Money is falling off the books, just wait for it. Nothing between now and then is going to get us to our ultimate goal.
And to close out, I’ll reiterate earlier points. I don’t think we’re nearly as bad as Orlando had us looking last year and I’ll need to see who you really plan on getting for Jax or Crash. To think that a late round pick is going to come in and duplicate either’s production is foolish and to think that we wouldn’t be overpaying for the next Jax or Crash in free agency is foolish as well. If the point is to see the Bobcats succeed, then why would you trade a player capable of dropping 40 for cap space and why would you trade an All-Star caliber player for a late round draft pick?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
The scene of the NBA is going to change...
how it’s going to change nobody knows. The fact is in the new CBA we may be able to get a max player for what we’re playing Crash, Jax & Diaw.
If you read what I wrote I said DJ & Hendo really shouldn’t be traded unless it’s for a guaranteed lottery pick and I’m not even sure about then.
I think why most people are steering for a trade of Jax or Crash is that Hendo is waiting in the wings and the savings are immense. Will we see a fall off? Maybe, well probably, but will that fall off be enough to make or break our playoff chances? Most likely not.
I’ll agree to disagree with you. We’ve had this debate a few weeks now in various threads. We see the Bobcats plan two different ways. I don’t ever see us having the money to make the moves we need until some players expire anyways. But think about this, you talk about us making a move in 2012-2013 when all of the above mentioned players (Wallace, Jax & Crash) expire & we’ll have money then… are you sure? What if DJ continues his improvement and basically becomes CP3-lite we’re going to have to pay the man! What if Hendo becomes a poor man’s Kobe Bryant or an Eddie Jones in his prime? We’re going to have to pay him! Then we won’t really have that much money in 2012-2013. Why not start the process now? Put ourselves in a better position for the other side of the CBA and get some picks to start building around DJ? If we can use one of those picks to land a finesse Center he would be perfect to pair beside Tyrus for his remaining years here in Charlotte. Instead of adding pieces around DJ, Tyrus, & Hendo ptoentially we could already have those piece and in 2012-2013 our players will have a few years under their belts in the league and making noise in the playoffs. Crash will be 30 at that point, his style of game won’t last much past that. Just a few things to think about.
The overall effect of the new CBA is being blown out of porportion.
Whatever the changes are, players will still be locked under their contracts and have to play them out, so that really changes nothing as far as the free agents will be concerned. It’ll be years down the road before we notice an actual effect of the new agreement if there is one at all.
Like I say, you’re only hurting your playoff chances by trading anyone of those three at this point for “cap considerations”. How not? It’s only common sense right? You’re trading actual players for money that you hope to be able to spend next year, or the year after. Even if Hendo blossoms, we’re putting ourselves in position to look for a backup. It’s the coach’s job to have the best players out there on the court to give us a chance to win games and if Henderson were that good, I think Silas would be already starting him or giving him more p.t. I’m not going to go crazy over a clutch performance like last night no matter how much I loved it. He still has weaknesses.
And as far as extensions go, we have a team option on Gerald Henderson so he won’t be due for an extension and D.J. will be a RFA. So basically, in the end, we control all of the cards that year. The bottom line is that positioning ourselves for moves next year absolutely does us nothing so contracts that expire this year (like Troy Murphy’s) won’t do anyone in the good in the end except for M.J. Like I say, as the years go by, the player’s value will only go up as long as they maintain their ability to play because it would be 1 less year on the contract for the trade partner to pay for. No one is due for an extension after this year so positioning oursleves to have money next this coming offseason does us absolutely no good. Don’t get into thinking that if we go past the deadline with these players then we are stuck with them forever.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Players will be playing out their contracts...potentially
They want to roll them back, while I don’t see that happening. You’re not understanding what I’m saying here… The owners want the new max contract to be 4 yrs/47 mil, with a hard cap of 45 mil. Will they get that? I doubt it. If they do manage that, we could get 3 max players for Diop, Diaw, Jax & Crash. If we keep those players and this is the case. We have absolutely no chance of moving them at all and we will have no choice but to let them expire here with a worse team than we have currently.
I think the fire sale is coming… Umm “wait for it”???
I understand all of that, but you're not understanding what I am saying.........
We would have room to sign “3 max players”, but there isn’t enough talent in the league right now to supply us with 3 max players. Who would they be? Like I say, you’re trying to clear way to have all of this money, but the fact remains that there needs to be someone there to sign. And what would put us ahead of teams like Sacramento, Indiana, and Minnesota who not only have most of their building blocks in place but also already have a ton of cap room to spare? The best thing we would be doing is jumping in a race late and hoping to have respectable results.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Better to jump in the race than to have people pass you by
Players would rather come here than Minnesota or Indiana of that I’m pretty sure. The weather is a lot nicer and standard of living is much cheaper.
If this team stays together and makes the playoffs as constructed. I will take all the “I told you so’s” you want to give me. I’m fairly confident it’s not going to happen or we get swept again if it does.
You really don't think this team can make the playoffs?
Have you seen the rest of the East? Which one of those teams do you think will make a sudden improvement? And I didn’t mention half of the teams who will have more cap room than us next year. Houston, New York, New Jersey, Washington. We may be a more favored destination than Minnesota or Indiana, but not those other markets. But I’m glad we got to the root of your true problems with this team. You just straight up think they suck. Lol. I get it.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, I think we suck too
The only thing is that 2 teams that really suck will make the playoffs this year and it’s reasonable to think we could be one of them. But the T-Time injury is huge and my playoff confidence level took a major shot with that news.
Oh no! We suck again!
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 21, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'm fairly confident we'll be one of them.
And Philly or Milwaukee will be the other. I don’t see the Pacers finishing the season well.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
And I’ll be glad to talk to you in 3 weeks ……… We can talk about how fun it was when all of these guys USED to play for Charlotte and how fun the start of the Silas run was, you know, before we hit that 2-9 skid and MJ traded everyone away at the deadline.
Oh no! We suck again!
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 21, 2011 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, well if that happens,
you’ll see me posting another thread about how the time to rebuild is NOW!!!
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
And I'll rec it!
Honestly, I get a really bad feeling about these next 11 games. I’d be elated to go 4-7 and that should keep us in the hunt but something like 1-10 or 2-9 isn’t out of the question either.
Oh no! We suck again!
by Bring Back Primoz on Jan 21, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
That's true. But what if we do over .500 this trip?
I know that’s unlikely as hell, but some of these “dominant” teams have been slipping lately and we can catch them at the right time. Tyrus’ loss is gonna hurt like hell though during this stretch. I think we’ll pull through in decent shape though.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 22, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Assumption bit me in the arse
When I first saw the title yesterday, I thought, “here we ago, yet another rosterbation thread,” and I didn’t even bother. So of course, 7 recs got my attention today, and I must say it is a fantastic read.
8 recs now.
Currently researching for a way to trade rosterbation threads to another team's blog site while receiving maximum value in return.
Lol. Thanks.
You know I don’t really get down with the rosterbation too much. 99.999999% of it is all fantasy anyway.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jan 21, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Damn. Great read. Awesome discussion. Props to the dedicated fans of this franchise.
so please MJ, don’t you dare disappoint these fans and this city! Time to take the game of Charlotte Bobcats to the next level! Bobcats all the way!
by mikael matthews on Jan 22, 2011 5:44 AM EST reply actions

by 























