Felton's gonna get paid; Tyrus will, too
by David A. Arnott on Jul 2, 2010 10:08 AM EDT
Email
PrintI think John Hollinger nails it in this morning's daily dime.
The lesson from the first 24 hours of free agency is that it's not just the superstars who are defining this market -- with too much cash chasing too little talent, teams are throwing themselves at whatever Hakim Warrick or Steve Blake they can get their mitts on, consequences be damned.
[snip]
Which would leave about $120 million in cap space out on the market, chasing a bunch of players who aren't worth anywhere near that type of money.
What this means for Bobcats fans, of course, is that Tyrus Thomas and Raymond Felton, both being chased by multiple teams, will cost that much more. The likelihood of retaining both looks remote, and the chances of retaining either for just one year are near zero.
As I tweeted yesterday (follow me!), the Official Former Roommate of Rufus on Fire, a Nets fan, is salivating at the possibility one of his hated teams signs Felton for what he believes would be a ludicrous, but certainly possible, 4 years and $40 million total. The only way this doesn't happen is if teams simply sit on their money, which doesn't look like is happening. Taking price into account, I'd rather have Luke Ridnour, since he might be a better offensive player than Felton, or Shaun Livingston, who will be far cheaper. But if talent is a team's only concern, Felton is going to get more attention than Livingston, and his skill set will play better with some teams than Ridnour's. He's gonna get paid.
Given the choice, I don't know which one I'd want to keep at, say, 4 years $32 million, if I could only keep one. At a certain point -- and I'm going off the top of my head with what I suspect is true -- it's better for the team to pass on both, should they get that expensive. I'll lay it out there: I like TT more than Raymond. That said, if someone wants to pay him silly money for all the same reasons he was drafted fourth overall, well... that sucks for us. In a world in which Drew Gooden gets the full MLE, Tyrus Thomas probably thinks he's worth more than that, and he probably is worth more than Gooden, but that doesn't mean that Gooden's pay should determine Thomas's pay, or that Rudy Gay's pay should determine Felton's pay.
I guess what I'm getting at is that I'd like to invoke a variation of Michael Crabtree's logic: Just because other people are stupid and pay silly money for lesser players doesn't mean the market has been reset and Felton and Thomas are now worth Lamar Odom money. But that's what's going to happen. Cripes.
111 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
If Tyrus gets an offer that we are not willing to match, do we then resign Raymond at a reasonable number? What is the biggest need on this team Starting PG or backup PF No thats not a trick question. Both these guys will probably get overpaid because the their are too many teams with too much money that will not get the Superstar they want They will have to put a team on the court, and that is good for Good players like Tyrus and Raymond and Bad for Broke teams like the Bobcats.
I don't think many fans consider TT to be a 'backup PF'
He’ll likely be starting for us this year because as Rick Bonnell has said, he’s formed a bond with Larry Brown. It’s Boris Diaw who’s expendable, but if a team signs Tyrus to a 5 year, $40 million offer sheet then I think we need to let him go.
If Tyrus Thomas leaves then the worst decision the Bobcats could make is going into panic mode and throwing cash at Felton. Felton is still Felton, it’s the league who’s now inflated him and plastered his name all over as ‘the best free agent PG available’ which is like throwing blood in the water to a bunch of sharks.
I’m hoping deep down that Tyrus isn’t signed to a deal like the aforementioned, because until he proves himself more he just isn’t worth it. I think matching that sheet and keeping him at $8 million per is tantamount to getting Matt Carroll 2.0 on the roster, a big deal for a player who’s proved very little simply because a need is there.
To me, this is make or break time for the Bobcats because if we’re looking at a situation where we could lose our starting PG and lose our future PF at what point do free agent signings and trades become little more than putting bandaids on bullet holes? I think Charlotte could absorb on of those lost players okay, but two is devastating especially when one of the players was essentially a 3 month rental for a 1st round pick.
If we lose Felton and lose Tyrus would it be worth pulling down the foundation and rebuilding now rather than later? I think the question has to be raised. It sucks because the Bobcats just got to a good spot with a playoff birth, but realistically there’s very little in the pipeline for the future. As much as I hate to say it if we lose those two players it might be better to start visiting trade scenarios for our core players to get draft picks, young talent and cap space.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
LALALLALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! LALALALALALALA
lol. I don’t want to think about worst case scenario, and I refuse to till it happens. lol.
"Love it or leave it USA #1!"-Ricky Stanzi Iowa QB and Patriot
"Smokey this is not 'Nam this is bowling. There are rules!"-Walter Sobchek
by HAWKEYESBABY on Jul 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree I like Tyrus as our Starting PF. The point i was trying to make is who would you rather see as a starter Boris Diaw or DJ augustin. Our team will not get much worse with Diaw starting He started last year. But if DJ is our Starter next year he will beexploited every night by oposing PGs for 25+ points. PG is our biggest need that is all i am saying. I am sick of Boris Diaw as much as anyone but i trust him as a starter far more than I trust DJ.
Per 82games.com
The Bobcats were actually better with Augustin running the 1st team than Felton in 2009-10.
This is based on a PG/Jackson/Wallace/Diaw/Mohammad lineup:
Felton: 41% win rating, -15 production rating
Augustin: 45% win rating, +6 production rating
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Show us how often Augustin ran the point w/ the starters
What was D.J. competition when he ran w/ the starters?
If you’re going to use stats you have to provide context for proper interpretation.
Ask 82games why they don't list them... I'm just pulling the data from their analysis
I can’t imagine though that the entire starting 5, bar Felton would be seeing drastically worse units than with Felton.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
I'd be very afraid of having DJ run our offense
I’d rather lose DJ than Ray. If Ray wants to much money, we need a someone equal in ability to replace him.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Jul 2, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
He was better than Felton in his rookie year...
Who’s to say that Felton’s improvement wasn’t just due to him being in a contract year?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
I remember you trying to make that point about D.J. being better in his rookie year
I don’t remember the numbers showing that though.
2008-09:
Per 36 minutes played
Raymond Felton: 13.6 ppg, 0.408 FG%, 0.285 3P%, 6.4 apg, 2.7 TO
DJ Augustin: 16 ppg, 0.430 FG%, 0.439 3P%, 4.8 apg, 2.2 TO
- Augustin averaged more points, shot better, shot threes better and turned the ball over less.
- Felton averaged 1.6 assists better
Overall I would consider Augustin played better than Felton in 2008-09
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Felton had more steals
But defense is factored into that +/- rating from 82 games
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Yes, because that's the only thing to go by
Unless the other 4 decided it was nap time every time Felton was on the court the deciding factor seems to be Augustin’s addition to the lineup.
Also per 82games.com:
- When Felton was playing PG our opponents averaged 93.5 points per game.
- When Augustin was playing PG our opponents averaged 91.7 points per game
- Felton’s opponents’ PER was 15.3
- Augustin’s opponents’ PER was 14.9
- When Felton was on the court our opponents averaged 107.1 points per 100 possessions.
- When Augustin was on the court our opponents averaged 105.4 points per 100 possessions.
All of these indicate that Augustin is the better defender
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
You're not going to convince anyone that DJ is better than Felton
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Jul 3, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to convince anyone
I was right about Okafor having a better season than Chandler, and Chandler not being able to play over 60 games, and I suspect I’ll be right about this one too.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
You had history to back that one up
But nothing that happened in the past suggests that DJ should be better than Felton.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
2008-09 happened
He was better than Felton per 3 minutes in all areas except assists.
Better field goal percentage, better 3 point percentage, less turnovers and more points per game.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
should read ‘per 36 minutes’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
A better stat to look at...
is opponent’s expected PER vs. what it actually is when playing against a particular player.
All of these stats that you’re posting here James can be easily explained by the fact that, as a starter, Felton played against better players.
The opponent PER I’m basing this off is when he ran the Augustin/Jackson/Wallace/Diaw/Mohammad unit, so that would indicate he was facing a starter.
The only thing it doesn’t let me see if who the opposing starter was.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
What in the Hell does that have to do with the Present time? do I have to tell you DJs stats from last year? Im not going to im to embarassed to think our possible starting PG only managed 6 points 2 assist on 38% shooting ouch!!
Do I have to remind you what Felton's line was from his 2nd year?
Again, per 36
13.9 ppg, 0.384 FG%, 0.330 3P%
What about Augustin’s, which you seem to have such distain for:
12.3 ppg, 0.386 FG%, 0.393 3P%
So even in his self admitted slump Augustin shot better while jacking up the equivalent of 834 shots to Felton’s 1,024. I’m positively quivering.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
What does an entire team have to do with one player's statistics?
Is the justification that Felton was entitled to jack up all those shots in his 2nd season? How so?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
or is the idea that Felton can only play well when the rest of his team is superior?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
i would have to agree with and1droid and bcat on this one
Hands down, Felton’s a better starter than DJ as of now. DJ may have a higher ceiling I don’t know, but he was given a plenty of chance to win the starting job, and wasn’t able to do it.
No matter what stats may show on the defensive side, you have to agree that DJ’s a liability on defense. Felton may be average or below average on offense, but he commands the floor and controls the ball as well as other starters in NBA and pressures defenders and plays Brown’s system well. That being said, no, Felton may not be worth what he’s asking for, but Felton is a better starter than DJ.
Believe me, I’m a bobcat, and there’s no looking back once Felton leaves, I will be rooting for DJ all the way, but it does not make sense to me to hear that DJ runs our 1st team better than Felton does. I really hope that D.J. takes over this year, James, I really do.
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
I agree that Felton is a better starter right now
But we’re still comparing a 5 year veteran with a 2nd year player.
Realistically it wasn’t until this last season that Felton did anything to show he could be a long term NBA starter.
All I’m saying is when you look at both players at the same point in their career Augustin has been better. Statistically, Augustin was better defensively in his 2nd season than Felton was in his 5th.
Finally, and most importantly, Augustin costs $2.5 million… not $7 million.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
ok I get what you mean now
I hope there’s some competition in the backcourt to really bring the best out of D.J. this year. Really curious what we can get out of Felton (sign and trade) this off season.
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
Comparing Diaw vs Augustin is a really tough decision!
We know what we have with Diaw, but DJ is still unclear. Diaw is good enough to start on many teams, but he’s not great and never will be. DJ on the other hand has looked terrible at times, but also could still be far below his ceiling.
I think fans are more excited about Thomas than Felton. It might be worth taking the risk on DJ. LB just needs to not intimidate him into a shell again.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I think LB needs to stay the course with DJ
It’s about Deej growing the stones to take the criticism.
Every PG who has been open to Larry Brown’s tutelage has come through the baptism by fire and been a better player for it. Augustin was a more complete point guard coming out of Texas than Felton was coming out of UNC, so I believe that if DJ can learn how to re-learn the position he’ll be better than Felton ever was.
There’s a reason teams inquired about Augustin in trade scenarios all the time and nobody wanted Felton.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Very good points.
Historically LB has an initial hate/hate relationship with his backcourt players that eventually evolves into mutual respect and dependence. That’s one reason I’m surprised to see Felton so eager to test the waters. He’s received very high praise and increased responsibility and his current actions are contrary to everything that’s come out of his mouth. That’s the largest reason I think his new agent is leading him by the nose.
My question about your last point is this:
I wonder why nothing ever worked on the trade front with DJ? I’m grateful for that now because if he’d been traded we’d REALLY be painted into a corner with Felton leaving and it’s likely we would have traded for a backup point guard instead of being able to snag Tyrus and Theo, but the question remains. Was it because the Bobcats were asking too much in return for DJ and the other teams weren’t interested because of it? Or perhaps the Bobcats were insisting that any team inquiring after Augustin would have to be willing to take Chandler or Diop with him as a package deal? We’ll probably never really find out for sure.
by Ourdaywillcome on Jul 2, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think nothing worked trade wise because the Bobcats valued him more than the offers dictated
Most recently it was Andre Blatche for DJ straight up, and the Bobcats turned it down. This happened prior to the Tyrus Thomas signing.
Prior incarnations involved him being packaged in larger deals that fell through because he was the lynch pin for many teams.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
I don't know much about DJ in College
But as a pro I don’t think he’s been “complete” at all. I can’t even tell if he’s a “pass first” or “shoot first” point guard. He’s occasionally had a perimeter shot, but I can’t say he can create his own shot, or even create shots for others. And whenever he winds up in the paint makes me cringe.
But who knows… Maybe a year starting under LB will make him into a solid PG.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I understand what you're saying
But I could counter with ‘create a shot for who?’
It’s pretty difficult to run the point for Stephen Graham and Larry Hughes.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
difficult, but "easy" in a way
at least you know who not pass the ball to
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
I have a hard time noticing him doing anything to create a shot or run a play
He brings the ball up court, hands it off to somebody, and then runs around looking for an open spot on the perimeter. Seems like this happens 9 out of 10 possessions.
On the other hand I see Felton far more often penetrating defenses either drawing defenders away from other guys, or setting himself up for a layup, fade away or his little tear drop.
I’m not saying he’s stellar at it, just that I seem him do things like that, and I don’t often from DJ.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Hell no!
If we lose Felton and lose Tyrus would it be worth pulling down the foundation and rebuilding now rather than later?
So we lose a player that only played a few months and another that is perennially decent (and hated by a large percentage of the fan base) and you think it’s time to raise the question about tearing down the whole foundation. Sorry, James, but that is a pretty dumb question.
We would still have Jackson, Diaw, & Wallace signed to reasonable multi-year deals. They’re the foundation. (plus the team has very young guys with promise that may come into their own this season anyway and multiple big men with expiring contracts) Who cares if Felton And Thomas get WAY over payed by some other team?
Charlotte has a good thing going with JAx and Wallace at the 2 & 3. And hitting the panic button (IF Felton and Thomas leave) would be huge knee-jerk mistake!
Boris Diaw
The crazy money being doled out to so-so free agents should make it easier for the Bobcats to find a taker for Diaw if they choose. In this market, Diaw probably fits better as a SF or a backup tweener F since the supply of PF’s is much greater than that of the SF’s.
Now that Gay and JJ have re-signed with their original teams, only a few starting caliber wings remain on the market. Once LeBron and the next tier players like Mike Miller and Josh Childress are gone, at least a couple teams are going to need a small forward. And Charlote may have an opportunity to clear Diaw’s contract without taking much back.
This could be their strategy if the Bobcats decide keeping Thomas is a priority, and they want to preserve some space to sign a PG and a couple other vets for the bench.
Fantastic point ClipCat... I hadn't thought about that
Diaw could be a prime piece for a team like Miami or New York who will need to fill their roster with players after the free agent signings are done.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
There have got to be other free agent PGs on the market.
There may also be an opportunity to sign a young guy who makes a showing at Summer League. While neither of these options are Felton, I would rather see him walk than TT.
They Bobcats might be happy with an Augustin/Collins PG scenario... who knows?
I would prefer a veteran, but my thinking was based on the idea that Steve Blake would cost no more than $4.5 million per, not these ludicrous full MLE ideas being thrown around now.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Anyone else think it's possible to swing for Farmar or Will Bynum depending on the Felton situation?
Then again with the market being what it is, we may not have a shot at either…
Definitely
I like Bynum a whole lot more than Farmar… perhaps he is a player the Bobcats like with Felton’s agent contacting the Pistons.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Well if you follow Queen City Hoops...
Over there they do an outstanding job of running statistics. By positions stats show that Diaw is most effecient as a 4. I don’t think any team will be looking to him as a SF any time soon.
Gotta keep Tyrus
If we lose him now, that adds to the historical woes of Bobcats roster moves. We gave up enough that this is heavy. And he has the chance to be a darn good player. I must admit I held my breath every time he pulled up for those mid-range J’s that seemed out of the offense…but was pretty consistantly surprised to see him knock them down. I look to see him continue his midrange shooting improvement, while using the new talent not as a primary offense move, but as a booster to his slashing/cutting without the ball and athletic rim attacks. Also look to see improvement in low-post offense. Defense is nice. I like the way he rotates to help. Great at blocking/changing shots that way. Could go on. We gotta find a way to keep him.
WE NEED TYRUS THOMAS!!!!!!
If that dude develops a low post game and has a slightly better shot selection. In a starting position he is potentially the future leader of the Bobcats.
"Love it or leave it USA #1!"-Ricky Stanzi Iowa QB and Patriot
"Smokey this is not 'Nam this is bowling. There are rules!"-Walter Sobchek
by HAWKEYESBABY on Jul 2, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Hands Down
We keep Tyrus…
DJ as a starter? No one says he has to play the entire game…if there are matchup issues, that is what a later in the year trade…or what your bench is for.
Give DJ the remainder of last season as the remainder of the sophmore slump. Sounds like he AND Hendo are stepping up this Summer, trying to get where they need to be for next season.
by andrewlail76 on Jul 2, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Man I'm hoping he breaks out next year.
His end-of-season dunks were nasty and a nice tease for next season.
Break Out? Next year is essentially his rookie year.
He is our 2010 1st round pick. I think he can be a major player. The biggest problem is that we need shooters, and he’s not one. And if we find one it will more than likely be at his position… Stealing his minutes once again.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I'll believe it when i see it.
Despite what this post is claiming, i do NOT expect Felton to get paid big bucks by any team.
Everybody saw Jameer Nelson make Raymond Felton look like me at the Y. He had a chance to showcase his talents to the whole league — and instead he hurt his stock significantly by getting outplayed in every facet of the game by Nelson.
Felton will not get more than 6 mil a year from anybody.
You will see it soon enough
Hakim Warrick is getting $4.5 million per… what do you think a starter like Felton is going to get
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Hakim Warrick showed throughout the season and especially in the playoffs that he has promise and and a big upside.
Felton showed that he has pretty much maxed out his talent, and in the playoffs showed that he might be a starting PG, but not a very good one.
Warrick is younger, more athletic, and has yet to have an opportunity to be the man — and is still only getting 4.5 million per.
Felton will probably be in the 4.5 to 6 mill per range. And not any more.
3 pts in 10 minutes on 0.158% shooting in the playoffs is 'promise and big upside'
Shoot, that makes Larry Hughes look like Michael Jordan in the playoffs.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
3 points per 10 minutes is actually a better scoring rate than Felton's 11 points per 35 minutes that he averaged in the playoffs.
Warrick only got 10 minutes a game in the Playoffs and still managed to get 3 pts and 3 rebs a game. Being able to produce with limited minutes is pretty much “upside”
Felton, on the other hand, played big minutes in the playoffs and looked absolutely horrible. His defense has been his saving grace and Nelson made him look like a chump on both ends of the floor.
we will see who is right
But do NOT expect Felton to get a big payday — he blew his chance for that in the ORL series.
or so the media claims....
The media is comprised almost entirely of foolish speculators.
The real business and dollars and cents is out of the control of media hype
And out of control period.... I think we've seen what GMs think based on the first 4-5 contracts doled out
Amir Johnson is making ungodly money for Amir Johnson. Now tell me something Amir Johnson did good last season?
Precisely
And like it or not Felton has been plastered around everywhere as ‘the best free agent point guard available’. None of the players signed so far were considered to be the best available at their position. Someone is going to give Felton upwards of $40 million, and I’m just glad it’s not us
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
But keep in mind...
The first 4-5 contracts were almost undoubtedly signed by GM’s/organization’s with itchy trigger fingers — which is precisely why they were the FIRST 4-5 contracts signed this FA period.
Wait until LBJ and Bosh and Wade and the lot make their decisions, after that you will see a more accurate sample of what players are worth.
Any GM that has already spent big bucks this FA period on Amir Johnson or Hakeem Warrick obviously isn’t a very good GM.
Did you read the article David linked to? Hollinger makes a very good point, when those players sign you’ll see teams with too much money to know what to do with and prices will be driven up.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
i have a mancrush on ty thomas
no homo bro. I’d really like to see him come back and sign a long term deal if the money is right. I’ve come to the acceptance faze of letting Ray go, but it would be nice to work out a sign and trade for a bigger point guard/combo guard that is not named larry hughes or a pure shooter. Jax is a volume shooter. Then maybe sign a free agent pg in the offseason or later on
did this dude just did this
If you hadn't qualified that w/ "no homo" we all would have thought you were a homosexual
Not that there’s anything wrong w/ it…
I have a shirt with a rainbow on it!
But I don’t want people to think I’m gay so underneath the rainbow I wrote “not gay”.
But I too don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, so underneath that I wrote “but supportive”.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I just think it's strange that gays took refracted light
Pretty greedy gays!
~ Demitri ;)
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Steve Blake just got 4 years, $16 million from the LA Lakers
$4 million per for a 30 year old journeyman PG who averaged 7 pts and 5 assists.
I think this means the 26 year old Felton will command between $6 and $8 million per depending on the team.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
I also blog the Panthers at Real Bits of Panthers
Yep...some team is going to show Ray Ray the money
"I could never be a thug, they don't dress this well." - Malice
by Julius Coxswain on Jul 2, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yeaaaaaaaaaaa
awesome got nothing to say just love this
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Jul 3, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions
How does Blake getting 4 milion a year from LA equate to Felton getting a "Big Payday"?
Two totally different players in totally different situations.
Will Felton get more per year than Blake? Probably. DOuble him? DOubtful.
Felton’s market value is about what the Cats payed him last year: the 5 to 6 million range. Some team may offer him 6.5 mill. but that is tops — and not a significant increase from what he was offered by Charlotte at the beginning of last season.
If Felton will sign for 6 million or so...
..then i think the FO keeps Felton, tries to sign Thomas too, and shops Diaw around to save money.
I would be most disappointed if we lost Tyrus in this offseason
I’ve accepted the likelihood that Felton leaves (and I don’t really care anymore since it’s obvious he just wants to be overpaid), but to lose Tyrus would be a major failure. As LB said, he along with Hendo and Brown are our draft picks this year.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
What's wrong with wanting to be "overpaid"?
If we made a deep playoff run last year it would be different. But we didn’t. We got swept in the 1st round. So it’s not likely he’s going to stay in Charlotte and win a Championship. So why not jump on the one and only opportunity he might ever have in his life to make a butt-load of money?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
that is true
this year is perfect for felton to bring home some $$. he’s regarded as the best pg available in FA (doesn’t say much about the pool of pgs this year…). there will be an owner out there who will spend a lot of money for Felton, just not our team.
Cat Scratch Reader's not-so-creepy stalker
a.k.a. DeAngelo Williams in the stalking business- agile and elusive
And Felton was a large part of the reasons for the sweep.
Four games shouldn’t decide a player’s future but in this case it does. Everyone was at least content if not thrilled with Felton’s performance last season until we got to the playoffs and he got stomped like a narc at biker weekend. The day after the playoffs ended for the Cats there were people posting here (myself included) that Felton’s playoff performance was going to cost him millions.
Now, with people getting mad money offers, it looks like RayRay will command some large-scale coin in the marketplace. We can count the Lakers out of the running though, because they just made a deal with Steve Blake. This will also mean that Derek Fisher, their current starter at the one, will definitely be in the display window at Free Agents R Us. This doesn’t hurt Felton too badly because of Fisher’s age (35) being considered a liability for anyone looking for a long term answer at point.
by Ourdaywillcome on Jul 3, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
But he was by FAR the only reason
Nelson had his way with him yes. But other guys like Diaw were MIA too. All of our guys looked like a deer in headlights. I think the unfamiliar big stage flat out rattled them. Our team relied on too many key positions that had never been in a playoff situation before.
Felton was a big part of that, but didn’t stand out to me.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
You're right - he wasn't the only reason.
I think the difference is that Diaw, DJ, and Chandler were MIA frequently during the regular season. Compared to them Felton was Ol’ Reliable for much of the season. His vanishing act during the playoff series stood out all the more because of it. The fact that at least 3 of the 4 games were in range of a Charlotte victory when the final whistle blew makes his drop in production stand out all the more. He may bear more of the blame amongst the fans than he deserves, but the local and national media came to the identical conclusion when analyzing the reasons for the sweep.
Despite that, I’d be ecstatic if Felton stayed in Charlotte. He’s solid at his spot and his presence allows us to address more pressing problems the team needs to work out to take it to the next level. But we’re looking at a situation that’s identical to what happened with Okafor. In that case the owners caved and overpaid. Regret was in the room before the ink dried and the team had to unload his contract for whichever team would bite. It’s no coincidence that Emeka’s current team took him on and is now trying to unload him before those last two biggest money seasons hit their payroll. Jordan has decided not to go that route again – his wallet and the caps wouldn’t allow for it anyway so it was an easy choice.
But whatever team signs Ray is likely to overpay and the same thing is likely to happen to him that’s currently happening to Okafor. The new team will keep him on until they feel his money is needed more than his presence and they will then look for someone willing to take the paper off their ledger. It happens all the time.
For me Felton ceased to be a factor in the future the moment the Cats extended the qualifier to Tyrus. It sent a crystal clear message that Raymond’s career will play out elsewhere (or several elsewheres) and it was time to take a real hard look at DJ Augustin and his potential value as a starter at the one.
by Ourdaywillcome on Jul 4, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
If what you're saying is true
And he was “Ol’ Reliable” for most of the season until the playoffs, then I can excuse him for having first time playoff gitters. Nobody except Thomas looked in their element. Felton was just exploited a little more. I don’t expect this to happen again, even with Felton.
With that being said, I don’t think our current roster is much better than an 8th playoff seed. And with the way things change year to year, that might even be tough. I am waiting for moves to be made that clearly make our roster better. And I don’t think that’s going to happen just by unloading Felton or Diaw and starting Tyrus or DJ. We need a “splash” signing.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don't disagree with you at all.
If the perfect storm arrives – Jax shows up lean and mean, Crash stays healthy and repeats his performance from last season, D-Brown, Henderson, and even Ajinca show up loaded for bear etc. the team may advance to the second round of the playoffs, but there will still be a stack of regular season games we should have won and didn’t.
But with Chandler picking up his option cash is going to be tight and trades will need to be made in order to get that “splash” player. I think the Cats are in a holding pattern for this season. They don’t want to backslide, but they’ll be happy with an even slightly better performance. Then when the dust from the CBA negotiations settles and big contracts start opening up cap space on the payroll the Cats make the big push and even maneuver a bit toward the inevitable rebuilding on the horizon a couple of seasons down the road.
The one thing to keep in mind – and I’ve mentioned it before – is that Free Agency can conceivably help the Bobcats do better in the standings this coming season. If Lebron or a couple of the other super-signers go to the Western Conference it will make our competition a bit easier during the regular season and allow us to move up a bit in the seedings. If a team like the Knicks, Bulls, or Nets lock up multiple superstar signings it means the teams those players left behind are going to be VERY weak and beatable. For example, Bosh, and Lebron head to NY. The Knicks improve but it makes two teams significantly weaker. My point is that the big player shuffle of 2010 is quite possibly going to make the teams standing pat (such as Charlotte) have a chance to move up in the seedings as the teams that lose their franchise cornerstones slide down in the rankings for a season or two.
by Ourdaywillcome on Jul 4, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Western conference guys like Stoudemire, Tony Parker, Carmelo Anthony could just as easy come to the East
And bump us down. Those 3 are actually all talking about going to NY. Miami and Chicago will likely improve. And if all those teams stay healthy, we’ll be fighting for our life again just to make the playoffs.
I’m just saying it could just as easily work against us. I think by sitting tight and letting Felton or Thomas leave, we are more likely risking the chance of actually digressing next season.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Wait...
What do they need?
Could we sign and trade Felton and package him with Diaw for their backup PG and Amundson?
they've got Dragic who played very well in the playoffs
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Jul 3, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Doubt they need a power forward or point guard
They just signed Hakim Warrick and Frye to an extension…Dragic is the future of that team…they arent gonna let him go. Hes gonna pick up where Nash left off. I believe hes that good. at least almost.
Dang...Can we have Dudley back? & Amundson
We’ll give you an expiring in Chandler…
Maybe the low humidity will be good for his ailments?
gimme back dudley
best pick for the money the bobs have made. I can’t decide if the Suns were that smart in that trade or the bobs just made a little mistake. That trade ended up getting the ball rolling to get Capt Jack though.
How much do you guys think he will get on his next contract? it will probably end up like this years free agency…SUMMER OF 2012…WHERE WILL DUDLEY GO? leading all espn shows
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Jul 3, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are we not looking at shooters?
Was it not obvious that that was what we were missing last season? Does anyone else get the impression we aren’t going to do anything to address any of our offensive weaknesses?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Back to the D.J./Felton thing.
If we’re going to talk about who is better then we have to talk about what they are better at. For all the things Raymond does better than D.J., he is not a better scorer. After what Jameer did to him in the playoffs, I’m not so sure about the defensive drop off either. The one thing our team lacks and is in desperate need of is offense. What we may lose from other facets of the game, we may gain enough of a spark offensively from D.J. that Raymond could become a quick afterthought. D.J. is the kind of player that needs consistent pt and free reign to be as effective as he could be. Maybe him starting would give him the confidence he needs. The only real thing you can knock him for is his size. But he is still more than capable of putting the ball in the basket.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Jul 3, 2010 7:39 PM EDT reply actions
He's a better perimeter shooter, but not necessarily a better scorer
3P% and FT% is the only thing he’s done consistently better than Felton, and even his 3 was missing for much of last year. Other than an open outside shot, how is it that Augustine scores? He can’t penetrate the lane, can’t post up other guards, and he can’t hit the short jumper (too short) or tear drop like Felton can.
He doesn’t have the physical abilities to be a shoot first point guard in the NBA. He has to learn to rack up assists and create plays for others to be successful. I’ve yet to see that from him.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Exactly.
The problem with DJ is that, by far, his most effective offensive weapon is his spot-up shooting. He’s bad in isolation, he’s bad in the P&R (also known as the things NBA PGs do most often). He’s a shooting guard in a point guard’s body. If he’s your starter, and you’re not playing a triangle, you’re probably in big trouble.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 4, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Rufus on Fire
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Chicago’s owner sees an unfortunate comparison between Derrick Rose and Michael Jordan
- Another day of a combination of Jeremy Lin’s last name and mental instability
- Ben Wallace is set to break an NBA record, and retire after 2011-12
- Video: Chris Paul and Bar Refaeli on a trampoline for some reason
- Video: LeBron James and Blake Griffin help us wish you a happy Valentine’s Day
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
