Rosterbation at point guard and center
by David A. Arnott on Apr 29, 2010 12:07 PM EDT
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As far as I'm concerned, Gerald Wallace is the only vaguely untouchable player on the Bobcats. The problem, of course, is that to get better, the Cats are going to be hard-pressed to find trades worthwhile to both teams.
DeSagana Diop's contract is possibly the second most toxic in the league (behind Gilbert), so he's staying.
Everyone else has a little bit of present-day value, but we've pretty much exhausted the avenue of taking on other teams' problem contracts in exchange for lesser talent. Even if we assume Tyrus Thomas stays merely for the qualifying offer, and Raymond Felton leaves, that puts us at roughly $9 million below the luxury tax threshold with 3 more players to sign (bringing the roster to 14, one above the minimum, and one below the maximum). If we make trades, we'd probably have to take on payroll, but I can't imagine Jordan would pay tax in order to do it unless we're getting a guy who's capable of leading a championship team -- which we're not getting in trade.
The Cats can sign minimum -- or close to minimum -- players to create some wiggle room, but unless one of 'em turns out to be a tremendous bargain, we're looking at adding more bench players, which will have minimal impact, given the talent already on hand.
If we do make a trade, the two places we'd absolutely have to improve are center and point guard. Our wings are locked down. We can hope Tyrus doesn't get any silly money offers, pushing Diaw to sixth-man. Once we take care of one, we can hope to get someone useful in free agency. I, for one, would embrace the Brad Miller era. (sigh)
Some rosterbation-ish trade ideas after the jump.
Trade 1: Tyson Chandler and Nazr Mohammed for Monta Ellis and Ronny Turiaf
There's almost no way Golden State does this, because it's a pure reboot move. They'd pay more this year, but get out from under Ellis's long deal and hand the reins over to Stephen Curry, making it his team. Turiaf would immediately get the starting center nod, which isn't saying much for the Bobcats, but suddenly we'd have a real third scorer without giving up much on defense. It would be an open question as to how the offense would actually work. And is it really a good idea to try to re-create the Warriors of the past few years?
Trade 2: Baron Davis?
Is there any way to pry him from the Clippers? I've tried to figure out a way to route Chandler to Oklahoma City and get Eric Maynor to Los Angeles, but nothing's working.
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No thanks on the first move
Monta Ellis is a black hole, the biggest ball hog in the NBA. And he’s never happy. And he’s not efficient.
Second move, no way you can send Chandler to OKC. They already nixed a trade for him once. They’re not going to think he’s healthy all of a sudden. Not to mention the emergence of Serge Ibaka. They don’t need a shot blocker with no offensive skills.
I don’t have any ideas right now. But nothing will happen in the offseason. Too many people trying to shed salary and wait to see what happens in the free agent market. Once that settles down (which probably won’t be too quickly), we can start looking at roster moves.
I would actually like to see Ellis
I was hoping he would be in the Jax deal but of course he wasn’t
Ubuntu 10.04
If you want to see Ellis, get the NBA League Pass
Because trust me, you don’t want to see him on your team.
Kinda new here.
Ive been watching from the shadows since around the 2nd half of the season. But is the anyway we could restructure the contracts we have that are killing our cap room like Diop’s?
Restructures aren't allowed in the NBA
However, the 12.3 million we owe Chandler next year is a player option. The Bobcats may be able to talk him into declining the player option in exchange for a some future security. Instead of 12.3 million for 1 year, the Bobcats could give him an extension of 24 million for 4 years or 16 million over 2 years, etc.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Apr 29, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that is a far fetched idea at all.
If the Cats offer him 24 million over 4 years then they are guaranteeing him twice the amount of money he is currently guaranteed. What happens to Tyson if he plays this year for 12 million and then blows his knees (or feet or whatever) for good and cant get another contract again period.
thats true
how much money do you think he will be offered after the last year of the 12 mil
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Apr 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
this years FA market will go a long way in determining future FA's price tag.
If big name players like Lebron, Wade, Melo, etc. take some pay cuts (due to the economy & new salary cap) then players like Chandler & Kirk Heinrich who got way over payed a few years back will only get a fraction of what their previous contracts were.
when diop's contract is up in 2047 how much will he be offered?
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Apr 29, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Diop is a severely underrated player.
Has it not occured to any of you the unique value this man brings?
The Bobcats can’t get rid of him, which means he ties up valuable dollars that could be thrown at a top notch Free Agent. This means that at least one player that would have wound up with the Bobcats will remain on the market for another team. It also means that the space Diop takes up on the roster guarantees that the Bobcats bench cannot reach the depth it needs to be truly competitive against other teams around the league.
Oh sure, ANY player can be a benefit to a single team. But Diop helps 29 out of 30 teams in the NBA simply by being a member of the Bobcats!
29 out of 30 teams are improved because of this man! Even LeBron can’t make THAT claim!
by Ourdaywillcome on Apr 29, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
haha the headline got me angry
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Apr 29, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the few LB decisions that I question
Hollins wasn’t that good, but at least he didn’t make a lot of money.
"I could never be a thug, they don't dress this well." - Malice
by Julius Coxswain on Apr 29, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It was Matt Carroll's contract that LB was dumping. Hollins was just to balance it out.
However Carroll’s contract was 17 million compared to Diop’s 27 million over a similar number of years. We got the bad end of that deal big time.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Apr 29, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The 25 Worst multi-year contracts in the NBA
Both Matt Carroll and Diop made the list.
25. Jose Calderon — four years, $37.6m
24. Andrei Kirilenko — two years, $34.3m
23. Jason Richardson — two years, $27.7m
22. Corey Maggette — four years, $39.8m
21. Peja Stojakovic — two years, $27.6m
20. Kirk Hinrich — three years, $26.5m
19. Matt Carroll — four years, $16.4m
18. Rasheed Wallace — three years, $19m
17. Andres Nocioni — three years, $21m
16. Charlie Villanueva — five years, $40m
15. Jason Maxiell — four years, $20m
14. Luke Walton — four years, $21.5m
13. Francisco Garcia — four years, $23.2m
12. Hedo Turkoglu — five years, $53m
11. Baron Davis — four years, $53.7m
10. Boris Diaw — three years, $27m
9. Richard Hamilton — four years, $48.5m
8. Richard Jefferson — two years, $29m
7. Michael Redd — two years, $35.3m
6. Ben Gordon — five years, $55m
5. Desagana Diop — four years, $26.8m
4. Rashard Lewis — four years, $80.4m
3. Emeka Okafor — five years, $63m
2. Elton Brand — four years, $66m
1. Gilbert Arenas — five years, $96m
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Apr 29, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Simmons. However, that doesn’t mean he’s not open to criticism. That list informed by players’ attitudes that he doesn’t like for personal reasons that have nothing to do with the players’ performances, and it also discounts defense for a few guys when that’s much of those guys’ value. See: Okafor.
by David A. Arnott on Apr 29, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Although I still think you’re in the minority regarding Okafor being a $12 million per year player. And as far as discounting defense…. How many defensive guys are on that list? Okafor, Hinrich, Kirilenko, Diop…. That’s 4 out of 25. It’s not a list full of guys that have undervalued defense. It’s mostly a bunch of guys that are supposed to be offensive beasts that haven’t lived up to their promise, not guys that play great defense that’s being ignored.
Diaw #10 and Okafor #3
It’s great that they successfully dumped Okafor’s contract, Diaw’s contract should be next one shipped out…
Maybe Mike D'Antoni would want Diaw in NY
It really depends on how the Knicks roster looks after they sign their big name free agent(s). I am all for letting Boris go if the Cats can get a serviceable PF or draft pick in return.
"I could never be a thug, they don't dress this well." - Malice
by Julius Coxswain on Apr 29, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If it's not Boris for a 1st rounder in this years draft, then i wouldn't do it.
i don’t even know who is on the knicks anymore really.
Wow
We have either taken on or given out 20% of that list.
by djwilliams11 on Apr 29, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, for all the Gilbert's gone through,
I wouldn’t mind trading for him. I wouldn’t consider him to have the most “toxic” contract in the NBA because he’s still an All-Star caliber player barring injury. With most of this year and the past two seasons off, Gilbert’s legs are going to be super fresh next year. I wouldn’t object to a sign and trade of Felton and Chandler to Washington for Gilbert.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Apr 29, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
That would be in line with the Bobcats and ok with me
get a player with some past issues but still is a good guy. Was Gilbert stupid? duh. Is he ever going to bring a gun to another locker room? I don’t think so. He loves the game, and in all honesty, I can say that I would like that decision.
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
He makes $16 million per year. We can’t put together a package that the Wizards would accept. Assuming they would take Chandler at 9 for next year, that’s ~7 more we have to get in there and make it viable. I don’t think they want Diaw. Their new owner (the owner of the capitals) believes in building from the ground up, not through trades and free agency. We have no picks to trade. I just don’t see a way for this to happen.
no trades or free agency? Well he’ll have a lot of fun these next couple of years. Does anyone know what the sentiment is in DC about Gilbert? If the public is vocal enough, he’ll be pushed out
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
And let's get cartier martin back in the trade
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is,
I get more props and stunts than Bruce Willis
- Guru, of Gangstarr
He'll be a free agent.
League minimum anyone? He got some SERIOUS burn this year.
Rufus On Fire
- where even the haters get a little love...or get dunked on by Gerald Wallace. Either one.
Arenas has 5 years at $96 million, $19.2 million a year
I am sure the Wizards would accept the expiring contracts of Tyson Chandler $12.3 and Nazr Mohammed $6 million for him. However, I don’t think the Bobcats would be that crazy.
by Ft.Mill Bobcat on Apr 29, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely
I’d even go so far as to say that the Wizards would take any combination of contracts that matched Arenas’s contract from any team. I really hope the Bobcats aren’t foolish enough to trade for Arenas no matter who is in the deal.
Jordan knows the situation.
He’s done the necessary preparation and study. He’s surveyed both the field and the limitations. I happen to know this and I also know exactly what he’s going to do and y’all are in for a surprise.
He’s going to use the 6 iron and lay it up center fairway so he can chip to the green to save par instead of risking the sand trap to the left of the green by going with the heavier but less accurate 3 iron.
Felton's face looks like
“Man, this guy is KILLING my negotiation power! My agent is going give me an earful, again, after the game tonight…sigh "
Just kidding, Ray. C’mon back…we forgive you!
that series cost him a mil a year easy right ?
did this dude just did this
by OldschoolBlue on Apr 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Somewhere i read a Diaw for Heinrich trade mentioned.
I would not be opposed to this idea. Then the cats could let Felton walk, take that money and ink Thomas for three years or so and sign maybe Sheldon Williams or some other serviceable PF to back up Thomas. That would give the cats a lineup like:
pg Heinrich, Augustin
sg Jackson, Henderson
sf Wallace, D Brown
pf Thomas (insert cheap back up here)
c Chandler, Mohammed, Diop, Ajinca
That makes 12. Add Flip, Graham, Hughes or some other inexpensive journeyman that can hit threes to fill out the roster.
My thoughts...
I actually was putting this into the trade machine earlier today. Hinrich is a better shooter and equal defender. It sheds some payroll (his contract expires after next year). This is a win for us. I stopped when I thought that there’s no plus for Chicago. Thinking about it again, they do get something from it. They get $2 million extra for this summer. Diaw has a longer contract, but it’s for less. They don’t care about the luxury tax so much with their market and fans. He gets to back up Taj Gibson and adds passing to go with the ball dominant D-Rose and whoever they get in the free agent market. This makes sense. MJ, make it happen. We can find a backup PF in the D-League, just ask the Golden State Warriors. Or see what the Derr-Devil can do. I like it.
I’d love Hinrich for Diaw. However, with the emergence of Taj Gibson, there isn’t much reason for the Bulls to do it.
by David A. Arnott on Apr 29, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
$9 M under the luxury tax?
DA – just curious if I missed something in my calculations.
I’ve read that the luxury tax threshold should be around $68 million next season. The Bobcats have about $59.5 M locked into next season already, and Ty Thomas’s qualifying offer would be about $6.25 million. So that should get Charlotte to just under $66 milion, or just enough room under the luxury tax threshold to sign four minimum salary contracts to round out the team.
$12.8 – Tyson Chandler
$9.9 – Gerald Wallace
$9.0 – Boris Diaw
$8.5 – Stephen Jackson
$6.9 – Nazr Mohammed
$6.5 – DeSagana Diop
$6.3 – Ty Thomas
$2.5 – DJ Augustin
$2.1 – Gerald Henderson
$1.5 – Alexis Ajinca
$0.5 – Min. Contract Free Agent
$0.5 – Min. Contract Free Agent
$0.5 – Min. Contract Free Agent
$0.5 – Min. Contract Free Agent
Of course, there’s likely to be a trade or two mixed in, and I’m not convinced Charlotte will choose Ty Thomas over Felton, but roughly this should be where the team is at heading into free agency.
total salaries with options for 2010/11 is $59,789,925
that INCLUDES Thomas’ salary
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/bobcats.jsp
No it does not include Thomas
I didn’t get my numbers from ShamSports so a couple figures may be slightly different. However, if you total all the 2010 contracts listed in SS (including Thomas), the result is just over $66 million. But now I understand why my figure was different from the original post. Also, I forgot Derek Brown above, but he just takes the place of one of the min. contract free agents.
Baron
If the Clippers somehow won the lottery and picked John Wall, then they would likely be very interested in dumping Baron. The Clippers would ask for Gerald Wallace, but I could also see a straight up trade of Chandler for Baron or Diaw, Augustin and Ajinca for Baron. But first the Clips would need a viable replacement at PG for Baron, and that may be limited to Wall since the free agent market for PG’s is really weak this year.
That's a LONG contract to inheret for an injury prone player...
Not to mention he’s all about his movie production company etc in LA. He would be so unhappy in Charlotte there wouldn’t be the production to back up the contract. His heart hasn’t been in basketball for a while.
Okayyyyy
So lets say TJ Ford takes his player option in Indiana (no guarantee there), why not trade Boris Diaw to Indiana for TJ Ford and Roy Hibbert. Indiana probably aren’t ready to get rid of Hibbert but that’s one scenario where the numbers should add up. I’ll come back with more later.
Rufus On Fire
- where even the haters get a little love...or get dunked on by Gerald Wallace. Either one.
Meeehhhh....TJ Ford. Not sure he's any better than Felton.
But this is a good try.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
This deal is only interesting because Hibbert's involved
He’s the guy we were hoping to get instead of Ajinca. That does put about 6 centers on our roster though. I’d assume some other trades would be going down.
I’m not a Ford fan at all.
I guess I should've pointed out that Ford wasn't the focus of this deal eh?
Hibbert is the real reason I put this deal together. His potential is still sky high and he’s already a solid player against anyone in the league. To be honest we’re not gonna find a clear as day “better” PG than Ray this year so if he goes why not just settle for another Ray for a year (if Ford picks up his option it’s his last year) and free up even MORE cap space for 2011 while still having a solid team with young guys to develop.
Rufus On Fire
- where even the haters get a little love...or get dunked on by Gerald Wallace. Either one.
Hell we could even flip Chandler for someone as well.
Rufus On Fire
- where even the haters get a little love...or get dunked on by Gerald Wallace. Either one.
What are the chances of us landing Dirk or Bosh?...
Dirk has obviously gotta be unhappy in Dallas after yet another first round exit and Bosh in general with Toronto…Landing either one of those would make us contenders and since I’m not really good with contract numbers I figured I would ask you guys…Also I would assume that Jordan wouldn’t mind paying luxury tax in a scenario like this…
Dirk would make CHA contenders immediately.
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/4/
This trade works in the tradechecker
Dallas sends Nowitzki to Chralotte. Charlotte sends Diaw & Chandler to Dallas.
Don’t know how feasible this trade actually is, but in a way it makes sense. Next year is Dirk’s last contract year, so if the Mavs are thinking “get something out of Dirk via trade or let him walk and get nothing” then perhaps they might be inclined to move him. Haywood is in his last year of his contract, so Dallas will need to resign him or find another center.
That would give the cats a most formidable roster (assuming they resign Felton, and Thomas):
pg Felton, Augustin
sg Jackson, Henderson
sf Wallace, D Brown
pf Nowitzki, Thomas
c Mohammed, Ajinca, Diop
plus 3 league min guys
That is by far the best line-up the Bobcats would have ever put on the floor.
Sounds good
But Cuban has said Dirk would say goodbye long before he says goodbye. Dirk will finish his career as a Maverick.
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