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Larry Brown and David Kahn, pas de deux

Here's a potentially blasphemous path to tread: Is David Kahn doing a better job building the Timberwolves roster than Larry Brown, et al, are building the Bobcats roster?

Kahn has been a reliable punch line since taking the reins in Minnesota, mainly because he's constructed a group of players whose skills overlap and whose on-court roles escape clarity, and because he's made several high-profile "misjudgments" that went against conventional wisdom (see: Ricky Rubio, Al Jefferson, Darko Milicic, and, still TBD, DeMarcus Cousins).

The thing is, there is a logic to what Kahn's doing, and he deserves some recognition for having the courage to pursue this course. In short: Kahn is gathering talent with upside regardless of position. And I think it's kind of amazing that he's gotten as much flak for it as he has. Yes, his execution hasn't yet yielded the results Minny would like, but the plan is sound.

Star-divide

And you know what? We know what the plan is, straight from the horse's mouth:

But the reality is, we still need that one dominant player.

It’s possible that that player could already be on our roster. We have eight guys who were selected in the top seven picks of their respective drafts, and the average age of those players is 22. So the potential is there for someone to emerge. But in case that doesn’t happen, we’ll continue to manage our salary cap so that we have the flexibility to make that one move that can change a franchise.

In other words, Kahn understands that his job is to find a superstar that can carry the team to a championship. That's why picking up Michael Beasley for nothing was such a brilliant move. I would have preferred to keep Al Jefferson around, but again, though I might disagree with specific decisions, the overall plan is sound.

There are two basic ways to build a championship team in the modern NBA. You can build a core and then find a star to join that core, or you can find a star and then build the core around him. Since 1979, both have occurred, but it's a far more efficient use of money and other resources to find the star first.

The Bobcats have attempted to build a core, and then... well, let's give the organization the benefit of the doubt and assume the plan is to have a playoff-worthy core in place before trading for or drafting (snicker) a star to push the team to the next level.

But here's where efficiency comes into play. The Cats are paying quality supporting players to hold steady while they search for their star. Not only are they paying $66 million for their team this year, but they've limited their ability to find out if they've got a young star already on the team, so getting that star in his prime depends on another team deciding they don't want him, for whatever reason. But why would another team give up their own championship-level star? It's got to be an extraordinary situation, and the Cats have to be in the best position to acquire him and give the best deal to the other team.

The Wolves, meanwhile, are living lean while they search for their star. They're paying about $46 million for their team of lottery picks and long shots. And their lack of roster coherence means that there just aren't enough minutes to go around* -- if your goal isn't to find out what everyone can do. The Wolves have a much better chance of developing a star from within, and I contend they have a better chance of finding a star than the Cats do of acquiring one because the Wolves have gone all-in on the strategy.

Maybe the Cats will find a way to finagle a star from some other team. Maybe they'll draft one. Maybe Dominic McGuire really is the second coming of Gerald Wallace and McGuire will figure out that whole "offense" thing and start clicking. And maybe they'll draft a star before the Wolves dig one up. But the Wolves are stacking the odds in their favor while the Cats aren't.

*Side note: David Berri's metrics are hogwash. He's not a subject-matter expert, and that leads him to assert patently stupid things, like Rodman was a better player than Jordan. Or that he can measure an NBA player's defense by the team's total defensive production then apportioning defensive credit by minutes played. So, essentially, if Tyson Chandler and Nazr Mohammed each played 1,000 minutes for the Cats, Chandler and Mohammed would receive equal credit for defense. Seriously. Also, as someone who's actually read Wages of Wins, I like to remind everyone that the book addresses baseball and football nearly as much as basketball, but those sections were so hopelessly wrong -- yes, wrong -- that even the authors have stopped referring to them. Possibly out of embarrassment. And when they have referred to other sports since, they've rightly been laughed out of the room by the people who know what they're talking about.

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trade minnesota

Jack for Flynn and Beasley. lol. God I wish we had gotten Al Jefferson. Wonder if LB would have benched him in favor or Kwame because of defense.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

yea

and I still want him, but not with LB as our coach. He would hound him into the ground. He’d end up pouting and disgruntled again. He’d be perfect at starting SF for us. If we drop Jack and bring Gerald out to the wing, or vise-versa

dj
gerald
beasley
tyrus
naz

i’m down.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm thinking that we will not be able to do anything to improve this team as long as LB is still the coach...

No way Minn trades him now. He has had his best season so far, and he has only begun to scratch the surface of his big game potential. A 2nd round pick…I’m getting mad just thinking about it…

by kittylover on Dec 18, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I fully understand your frustration

I was sent into a furious rage when we passed on that oppourtunity. Even to have him as Tyrus’ backup(which is where I thought he’d be) made me giddy. Now it’s just insult to injury. LB wants to go. We want him to go. Set this bird free MJ. Same with Rod Higgins. Hire Kevin Pritchard and Jeff Van Gundy. Please.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Van Gundy seems to be a popular choice as a replacement

I, on the other hand, would go in a different direction. Mark Jackson or Jalen Rose are the kinds of former players with great basketball I.Q.‘s that can relate to todays players better. I may be in the minority, but i would go after one of these guys. Surround him with experienced assistants and i feel like players would respond…Love the Pritchard idea btw. It’s crazy to me that he is unemployed…Unfortunately, MJ’s pride is his achilles heal. Swallow it MJ and bring us something we can all be proud of!!!

by kittylover on Dec 18, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

We didn't really have a chance at Beasley

The Heat were giving him away to free up cap space and couldn’t afford to take anything back. Since we were over the cap, we would have been required to send back a player of equal salary, something Miami wasn’t interested in. So there were only 3 teams in the league (including Minnesota) that were under the cap and had a chance at Beasley. Yeah, it was a steal but the Wolves used being under the cap to pull that off. We did the same thing to get J-Rich a few years ago for nothing basically.

by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 18, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, for a chance at Beasley,

it would’ve had to be a three team trade. And given the fact that Beasley was a steal anyway in the deal, I doubt we would’ve been able to find an interested team.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 20, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would they do that?

(P.S.: This will be my simple reply to all stupid trade offers that do absolutely nothing for the other team.)

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 19, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

You may want to register it as an official trademark like Andrew's "Wait for It."

I have a feeling it’s going to see a lot of usage.

Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.

by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 19, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I, for one,

think Kahn is doing and has been doing an excellent job of building a talented roster. Like I was telling MP, if you insert one superstar into that core they have now, they could be a potential dynasty. They have a deep, talented roster. And although they haven’t been successful as a team, they have potential to grow and I don’t see any individual player losing their trade value either, so, they have room to make moves. They are in a good position salary cap wise as well. I can’t see a free agent superstar signing in Minny for obvious reasons, but I like their roster.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 18, 2010 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

that lineup with a coach like

Jerry Sloan or Greg Popavich would be a playoff contender in the west. They could tire people out and if you taught them team defense it’d be ON.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. I don't think Rambis can take them to the next level.

He’s confused about what he wants to do. I don’t see him them getting over the mediocre hump with him at the helm.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 18, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

definitely. they have the pieces for a 5th or 6th seed playoff team

and that Love-Beasley duo is promising. add the surprise development of Darko, and the city of Minnesota can finally have their “BIG” 3 for the future.

by mikael matthews on Dec 18, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you figure?

He’s a reasonably efficient scorer who plays good defense at the position.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 19, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

would very much like to have

former Kevin Pritchard. Loved what he did in Portland. Imagine that team free of injuries the past 5 seasons. Yea, they’d be incredibly badass.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

lol anyway meant to say

former Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard.

FREE THE TYRUSAURAS
Blindly Optimistic follower of The Iowa Hawkeyes, San Francisco 49ers, Carolina Hurricanes, and the Charlotte Bobcats.

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 18, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

LB

As long as LB is with the bobcats he will not do anything to improve? a lot of teams making trades and it don’t make sense the Bobcats have not did anything?

by jayball on Dec 18, 2010 5:37 PM EST reply actions  

To be fair

Larry et al have always been in a vastly different scenario than Khan, Khan only had one lengthy contract which was ultimately very tradeable and then he had the salary cap to basically pick anyone he wanted out of free agency.. Bobcats have tonnes of bad untradeable contracts.

by AirGiles on Dec 18, 2010 10:05 PM EST reply actions  

...because he picked them up.

The only above-market contract we had before he arrived was Mohammed. He added on Diop, Diaw, Chandler/Najera/Carroll.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 19, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

We were never going to be able to trade Okafor, Richardson, etc. without taking on some other big contracts, You could argue we could have made better trades but either way this team hasn’t been free of bad contracts for 4 or so years. The bigger issue is we are horrible at drafting talent.

by AirGiles on Dec 20, 2010 3:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Had the Bobcats avoided dead weight contracts, they wouldn’t have needed to trade Richardson and Okafor.

A starting lineup of DJ, Richardson, Wallace, Thomas and Okafor would definitely be talented enough for the playoffs. Sure Okafor and Richardson are expensive players ($26M this year), but they contribute a lot more towards winning than the combo of Diaw, Jax, Diop, Carroll and Najera (at $31M), all players acquired during Brown’s time in Charlotte.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Okafor didn't need to be traded.

He is on a market-rate deal that fairly compensates him for what he is: a very strong defender who’ll average better than a double-double. That’s more than you can say about Chandler, Dampier, Mohammed, Diop, or any of the other scrubs we’ve had to try and fill the void since Brown forced him out the door because he liked stretching too much.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

You know, the funny thing is...

Okafor gets the job done at both ends of the court. He isn’t flashy, he isn’t exciting, he isn’t particularly inspiring. He just does his job like clockwork almost every game. Most of the time it isn’t until you see his stat line that you realize just how much impact he had. Basically he’s Boris Diaw, if Diaw actually showed up with his “A” game more than once a week. Emeka could post worse numbers than he does, show a little more flamboyance and willingness to “play to the crowd” and most of the league would be tripping over themselves in an attempt to sign him.

There’s something very wrong about that. The saddest part of it, was that Brown spotted the talent and them instead chose to look at the blase’ approach to things that Okafor often displayed and decided to dump him over things that had nothing whatsoever to do with the young man’s skills on a basketball court. Personally I don’t give a damn if Okafor is in the locker room pouring shots of rum and lighting stogies for Joboo before games. If he gets you wins, he’s a valuable player regardless of quirks and habits.

Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.

by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 20, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Came Across this post as a Wolves Fan

I have a few thoughts

1. The issue with David Kahn is one of vision. The draft pick of Jonny Flynn showcases this. Flynn’s skills are derived from the Pick N Roll Game where as then Kahn hires Rambis to install the Triangle Offense which is a total contradiction of Flynn’s skill-set. The sad part of this is Stephen Curry would have been an ideal Triangle based PG.

2. To Kahn’s credit. He’s made a few really good moves such as hiring an experienced personnel guy in Tony Ronzone from the Pistons as his right hand man. The Beasley trade and Tolliver signings were good. I can’t even be that down on Darko’s contract for the financial investment.

3. I think where Kahn and Larry Brown differ is in regard to the End Game for the Franchise. Larry Brown’s moves have been about maintaining a Eastern Conference Medicority. Where as David Kahn has on some level been willing to push for patience while he blows the whole thing up. Brown looks to resign Al Jefferson’s (Emeka Okafor) to huge money deals while the team still doesn’t compete in May.

by Jose Cordoba on Dec 20, 2010 1:09 AM EST reply actions  

The difference between Kahn and Brown

Kahn is actually trying to build a team that will be good in the future. He’s made some awful mistakes along the way, especially in the draft. Minny could be on par with OKC had they selected Joakim Noah and Stephen Curry in place of Corey Brewer and Flynn/Rubio. But at least Minny has been planning for the future.

Brown has only been concerned with the present since he came to Charlotte. He’ll take the credit for getting the Bobcats to the playoffs, but he deserves the blame for selling out their future to do it. Now he’s caught between last year’s peak season and the inevitable rebuilding that needs to begin.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

What is your point regarding Jefferson/Okafor?

Brown hated Okafor and had nothing to do with his re-signing.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Minnesota has a star player

Kevin Love is leading the league in rebounding at an incredible 15.7 while scoring 21 PPG with solid efficiency. Those are the stats of a superstar. Very few PF’s are even close to Love’s level, and the only reason he’s not regarded as such is because he plays in Minnesota.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

I don't think Love will ever be the head man on a championship team

but I think he could be that dynamic number 2 that pushes a young star over the top. Like if Melo or somebody like that got with him, they would be hell.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 20, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn't that pretty much Beasley's role?

I’d disagree that Love would be the lesser player to Melo. Love already is more productive in just about every aspect of the game. Even as a scorer, Anthony only scores a couple more points a game but shoots a lower percentage, loses more TO’s, and has less range.

I don’t know if Love will ever be the top dog for a championship team, but Anthony isn’t that guy either. The whole idea of being the top player on a champion is really just an artificial creation of NBA marketing. Malone, Nowitzki, and Amarre are stars whether or not they have rings, and so were Pau Gasol and Garnett before they were traded to LA and Boston. Of course, Love needs to play at his current level for many more years to be at their level, but so far he’s comparable to those guys.

Should be interesting to see how Love matches up tonight with Blake Griffin, the other great young PF.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The Pau Gasol comparison is what I was basically getting at.

Like how he was the head dog in Memphis and could get them to the playoffs, and was overlooked by the general NBA fan, gets traded to L.A., becomes a solid number 2, and a perrenial contender. That’s what I think is going to be Love’s destiny someday. I just mentioned Carmelo because of I don’t know any other young stars that really need that extra push (like Kobe’s Lakers did before the Pau trade). I would say Joe Johnson (but no), I would say LeBron, but he’s doing fine in Miami, I would say Kobe, but he’s already got Pau. But, I believe if you brought Love together with another superstar (maybe Durant?), they could be the next Kobe and Pau.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 20, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Aha, but maybe Kobe was the player who needed a real star to be a champion

Without Shaq and now Gasol, Kobe was the guy putting up big numbers but not quite able to get over the hump. No single NBA player is able to win a championship on his own. Scorers like Kobe and Carmelo grab the ESPN highlights, but they can’t win without a top frontcourt.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

And Carmelo couldn’t win a championship even when he had an elite frontcourt

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see him ever winning a championship either.

I just don’t put him on the level of LeBron and company.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 20, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not talking about actual impact on games,

I just mean as far as history will show. I, like you, argue on the side (some) that Kobe are more 1A and 1B than 1 and 2. But, if something like that did happen, it would be “Love joins Melo to get him over the hump” rather than the other way around, that’s how ESPN would tell it.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 20, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

That is sadly true

So I hope it never happens, and of course the chances that Carmelo or any player like him voluntarily plays in Minnesota is pretty low anyway. Minny pretty much has to build through the draft and hope all those high lottery picks turn into a winner. Once Flynn regains the starting PG position, they will be fielding a starting lineup made up entirely of top 6 picks with Rubio in reserve and another top pick on the way.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Carmelo, less range than Love?

Ha. Anthony is regarded as one of the purest scorers of his generation, much less any team he’d be on.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 20, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

A pure scorer, yes, but not much of a perimeter shooter

The development of Love’s three point shooting has been quite a surprise (at least to me). I don’t have time to look it up right now, but I doubt any player has ever combined three point shooting with the rebounding numbers Love is putting up.

by ClipCat on Dec 20, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That's true, he's off to a phenomenal start.

But I wonder whether we should give him the full season to declare him a dead-eye three-point shooter (or a historically insane rebounder, even, though I’m willing to let that go.) 88 shots just isn’t much of a sample size to go off off. Still, he is in pretty rare air when it comes to his numbers.

Only guys who ever managed even 40% and 10 rebounds while taking at least a three a game were Troy Murphy for Indiana a couple years back (who I had on a fantasy team) at 11.8 RPG and .450 from three while actually shooting about 50% more threes and Larry Bird, who actually did it twice in his career with 10.5/.427 and 10.4/.406. If you’re trying to get up into those more rarified rebounders, you have to drop the three-point percentage WAY down. A young Garnett went for 12.1/.319 while shooting about 40 threes one season, Rodman went 18.7 (!!!)/.317 on about the same number of attempts, and the great Chuck Barkley went 12.2/.305 on about twice that number of threes. The only other really similar season is actually the one Josh Smith’s having this year, though he’s obviously not putting up near Love’s current rebounding numbers. He’s currently at 8.3/.438 while shooting about half the threes Love is.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for digging out those comps.

Who knew Dennis Rodman shot threes? Not me.

I’ll agree Love could cool off as the losses pile up in Minny, and this is the first year he’s shot 3’s this well and often. But in my opinion, that reflects his dedication and hard work leading to steady improvement. So I don’t mean to get too carried away. Love has his limitations, and he isn’t not working with elite athleticism as his matchup last night with Blake Griffin revealed. But he’s someone to watch who is putting up a unique combination of rebounding and 3 point shooting.

by ClipCat on Dec 21, 2010 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

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