Pointing fingers at Larry Brown for the Bobcats' mess
We're in the doldrums. That's fine. It happens. Every year, there are some teams that just don't contend for the playoffs at any point in the season. I'm guessing there's a split in the RoF audience between people who are looking ahead past this season and those clinging to hope that the Bobcats will go on a run and launch themselves back into the post-season conversation.
Let's be clear about something before we continue: Larry Brown is still probably a good Xes and Os coach, in the narrowest sense of the term. I don't doubt that he can still teach effectively, and that he can install an offense and defense as efficiently as anyone in the game. I'm also in the camp that holds that at this level player talent matters far more than coaching talent, so pulling a coach is usually more about "doing something", air-quotes fully intended.
But in this instance, it's finally come to the point where we should strongly consider moving on from the Larry Brown era. Again, it's not because he can't coach anymore; I'm sure he still has the knack for pushing the right buttons, given talented personnel. Where Brown fails is in choosing which players deserve floor time, and -- since he's been given this influence -- roster construction. I've said it before, but not quite as succinctly as Jared did the other day:
Larry Brown’s ultimate joy in basketball is to play with and to play as an unlikely winner...
Taking a team that featured Eric Snow, George Lynch, and Aaron McKie to the NBA Finals likely meant far more than winning a title with Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O`Neal. Even Iverson, though a league MVP, epitomized the underdog mentality with his slight stature.
I'd even extend that to the 2004 Pistons, the most unlikely NBA champion of its modern era (post-1979), and yet the team that Brown seems to want to re-create at every step since. Remember them? Brown's Detroit team that featured four All Stars and a near-All Star that upset an imploding Los Angeles Lakers team in the Finals?
Remember, too: they smoked the Bucks in the first round. Then they needed seven games to get past a fatigued Nets team that had been through Finals runs the past two seasons, switched coaches mid-season, and had a horrific bench led by an end-of-career Rodney Rogers and an end-of-career Lucious Harris, and also had to work with Jason Kidd who was still POed that he hadn't been traded to the Spurs the previous off-season and limping around on one knee. Then the Pistons won one of the league's ugliest conference championship series, barely getting by a talented Pacers team by grinding out wins with point totals of 72, 85, 83, and 69.
All that's to point out that the Pistons were a ridiculously loaded team besides not having a singular Hall of Famer, yet they still had a tough time navigating through a weak Eastern Conference playoffs. Building another franchise in their image is folly -- unless you've already got your three All Stars and one near All Star and can complete the picture by overpaying in first round picks that you don't think you'll need for the next two seasons in order to get that fourth All Star.
Coaches matter, and they don't matter. You can't win NBA games by just rolling the ball out there and letting 'em play. But you also can't win unless you have talented players, and this team doesn't have any perennial All Stars, and it doesn't come close to making up the starting lineup's talent gulf on the bench. If the coach won't use the talent on hand, and he'll mainly take on players that match up with his antiquated-college-ball-ish value system, then the coach is the problem.
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I have a thread about Larry Brown that I am working on.
It may just be time for him to go.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 10:59 AM EST reply actions
do some trading
The bobcats should contact NJ and try to make a trade? maybe would ease the public on LB.
Making a trade fixes nothing in and of itself.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
and why do we want to ease the public on LB
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
LB lost the Players
Looking at the players demeanor last night, they’ve given up on the system and the coach. Plus Tyrus Thomas is getting ready to blow (like he did in CHI) and I can’t say I blame him.
I hate that Pistons team
Not because I hated the actual team (although I did). They are a small blip on the radar that every average team that plays good defense clings to as evidence that they’re “making progress” despite really treading water (see: Bobcats).
I believe the word to describe that team is...
FLUKE
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
See: Baltimore Ravens circa 2000
Trent Dilfer as starting QB? That’s going to win your a super bowl once every 20 years at best.
...except it happened a few years later with Brad Johnson and the Bucs.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and then again with rookie Ben Roethlisberger and the Steelers.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Except that Dilfer was far worse than either of those guys in those seasons. 12/11 TD/INT and 59% Cmp versus 22/6 and 62% for Johnson and 17/9 and 62% for Roethlisberger. The Ravens’ defense had to be even better than the Bucs’ and Steelers’ excellent Ds to get there. Thus, historically odd.
The point still stands that it’s not a good idea to settle for a Dilfer-level QB if you have championship aspirations.
by David A. Arnott on Dec 16, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Dilfer and Elvis Grbac (I don’t know how to spell that) stunk it up worse than anybody.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Grbac wasn't on that team.
Tony Banks started that season as their #1.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Gosh.
Even more garbage. I don’t know why I remember Grbac with them. Was he there before that or after?
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
The next year.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I loved those Bucs.
Having a garbage QB like B.J. and winning the ship with him made it feel that much better.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeh its called DEFENSE
Ravens, Bucs, and Steelers all had BEAST defenses. and the Pistons did too for that matter. The fact is each of those teams at least had an identity. We dont. At all
And a more-than-solid run game.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Larry appears to not like doing his job
so let him go. I think MJ should coach, I think the players will respond by playing their hearts out, I think it’ll be a good PR move, and this may be what’s needed to bring in some big time free agents. Let the grumpy stubborn old man go, and bring in Jordan!!!
Not sure how that would turn out. Majority of the time great players tend to be bad coaches. Michael is a very strong figure and extremely impatient. He hates losing and hates looking bad. Coaching a team with so many flaws and so inconsistent could end very badly. Fire Brown and bring in somebody else. Jordan isn’t coaching material imo. Would like to see him coach us to the promise land but its a nice thought more then anything else
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
by MMA_PITBULL on Dec 16, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure how Mike would do either as a coach
With this team, he could have success, then again, he could get out their and totally screw up. One thing I’m sure about, Charlotte would be the talk of the sports world. I think he alone will draw fans, and if we actually play to our potential we’ll be back in the playoff hunt and draw in lots of fans to the games. Initially I threw Mike’s name out there as a joke, but when I thought about, it could potentially be huge for this franchise.
Yeah. It's possible.
But it’s too much for Mike. He’d be the first person in history to be the owner, coach, and bascially GM (Rod Higgins who) all at the same time.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
MJ was a good floor leader but nothing about him his personality or history leads me to believe he would be a successful HC. If he juggled all three titles at once we might as well just go ahead and change to team name and logo to Jordan lol
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
Unless, of course...
It’s an unmitigated disaster and makes us look like even more of a laughingstock than we are losing by 30 every other game.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Micheal;
At exactly which point did it happen that you and I started to agree on so many Bobcats-related issues?
Have you become more centrist or have I become more extremist? Hmm… what are your views on the Tea Party and Sarah Palin?
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Haha...
It must be that I’m getting soft in my old age. You or me one. ;)
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Since I'm now so old that when I fart dust comes out, it must be me.
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
I have one fear.
After what happened during Michael’s stint in Washington, I fear the media would come out in droves should Jordan decide to coach. Unfortunately, it will be to second-guess his every decision, snidely mock him in ink and on the air with every loss, and criticise him until he and the team are the laughing stocks of the league.
Of course, perhaps he can teach Diaw how to hit a curve ball. You know what they say, those that can do, and those that can’t, teach.
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
There is nothing on his pedigree that makes me think MJ can coach
Now if he brought in Larry Bird (who was a pretty good coach with the Pacers) and play 1 on 1 (remember MJ vs Bird on NES?) during every halftime, I’m all for it.
i know your kidding but i think Larry is still part of the Pacers front office. Mark Jackson has been looking for an opportunity. Why not give him a shot to the end of the season
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
I'd be willing to take a shot on Mark Jackson.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
be a huge change in personality for sure. Former player might be able to relate to these guys and get things turned around. Larry is a old white and senile. If he complains about a rule that was changed 30 years ago i might lose it. 3 pointers are apart of Basketball Larry deal with it!
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
I assume you're referring to Larry Brown, not the aforementioned Larry Bird.
Bird’s administrative skills may be as questionable as Jordan’s were in Washington, but he isn’t quite senile… yet.
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
If it means I don't have to listen to him announce games anymore, yes
So sick of hearing “Hand down, man down” and “He’s just a knock down shooter”
Yeah, I'm sure Kwame Brown loves Jordan's notion of player development.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Kwame Brown should kiss the ground underneath Jordan’s feet. He keeps him employed
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
If he weren't here, he'd be somewhere else.
There are far worse players on bigger contracts in the league (see Diop, DeSagana.)
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Perfect example.
Didn’t make call him a f*g or something.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
He did.
Drove his 18-year-old teammate to tears in practice on a regular basis because he was such a dick to him.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
No to MJ as coach
He has too many other interests to put in the time necessary to be an owner and a head coach. Plus, I don’t think he is patient enough to do it anyway.
by Bring Back Primoz on Dec 16, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
wow...
watching First Take..and talking about Knicks/Boston last night and Skip going off about Felton saying he looks like UNC Felton and doesn’t know what was up with him in Charlotte and Jalen Rose quickly and sternly said…Larry Brown. that says it all my friends
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
My friend was telling me about that this morning.
And it’s nothing but the truth. I still think Felton is going to get his lunch ate in the playoffs by one of the truly elite, but it makes you wonder how much of the Orlando series was really his fault. I blamed him for getting toasted, but a lot of the times, he was just out of position and leaving Jameer open for threes. That’s more about the game plan than anything.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
him and DJ both are not going to be able to stand up too the Derrick Rose/Derrick Williams of the league thats for sure. d’antoni system has helped boost his numbers and get him in better shape but LB system still limits his talent quite a bit. J rose played for him and speaks from first hand experience. LB isn’t a players coach by any means.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
+1
That’s why I’m not ready to call Felton elite, he still has his limits. But Larry limited him way more than he needed to be.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Leaving opponents open for threes....hmmm....why does seem so familiar?
Oh yeah; almost forgot.
Thank you, San Francisco!
I know you guys don't wan't to hear this BUT...
The only significant difference from last year is that we don’t have Felton. I think we were so consumed with his assists/turn overs that we overlooked everything else he did for this team.
This isn’t rocket science… Building off of your 1st playoff appearance doesn’t mean losing players and replacing them with backups. We should have re-signed Felton and improved the center position to get better. But we didn’t, and this is the result.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
That's true.
But to refute your point as much as possible, I think back in that time period, people were just so disgusted by Felton’s performance that we realized that he wasn’t getting us to a championship anytime soon. This, what we’re going through now, is what happens when your expectations start getting too high and you don’t realize what you already have.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. But we also didn't sign anybody to make us better.
Why were we expecting better results with the same players?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Lol, I wasn't expecting better results.
I was just expecting to get back in the playoffs. I think the only thing really inhibiting us from doing that right now is chemistry issues, Larry, and the improvement of New York and Indiana (though they are starting to step back into reality).
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Felton wasn’t worth what it would of cost to keep him here. Top tier PG’s are becoming more and more common. Bobcats can pick up a better PG in the coming draft at a fraction of the cost. DJ numbers aren’t that much off and Felton wouldn’t of fixed jackson’s turnovers and ejections and Wallace’s decline.
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
Wallace struggled early last season as well
That was when he wen’t on a rebounding tear to compensate for it. And Jackson’s TO/game are the same as last year. Actually most of his stats are either the same or slightly better.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I'm sorry; I'm not convinced
Wallace last season: 18 ppg, 10 rpg
Wallace this season: 16ppg, 8 rpg
Jackson last season: 21 ppg, 5 rpg
Jackson this season: 17 ppg, 4 rpg
Felton last season: 12 ppg, 5 apg, 3 rpg
Augustin this year: 12 ppg, 6 apg, 3 rpg
Granted, these stats say nothing about Felton’s leadership, Augustin’s lack of “fight,” etc. But our captains are slipping, point blank. From the offensive perspective (without even bringing the ATT into question here), we haven’t lost any production from the point guard position.
How did Felton’s departure affect the scoring and rebounding of Crash & Jack?
Thank you, San Francisco!
by Newsinz on Dec 16, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it all comes back to Larry's love for Felton,
and hate for D.J.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Then ship Larrys Old ass to NY. Team has quit LB has quit. Felton would not fix this
"Hard Work Beats Talent When Talent Fails To Work Hard" - Kevin Durant
Larry has already left his mark on the Knicks.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Skid Mark?
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
What about Jackson's 3P% or his APG? Or Wallace's numbers in the 1st part of last season?
Or are you trying to make the point that Felton’s absence is making other players worse?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Not at all...
I thought that was your point, actually.
I guess I should have more clearly stated that I don’t think Felton’s departure has had nearly as much to do with our decline (if any) than the overall discipline, focus, and leadership that normally comes from the head coach.
When your head coach openly confesses that coaching games aren’t any fun for him, and that he only enjoys practices, I’m not sure that it would matter who you have on your roster.
Thank you, San Francisco!
If you want to compare DJ to Felton
Go HERE
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I guess what it all adds up to then is that Felton was better at running the team
His team fought to the end of games. Augustin’s quits.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Players can't force their teammates to fight.
That’s something every individual is responsible for.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or the team leader
Like it or not, some people are better motivators than others.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I cannot believe that somehow Augustin's being saddled with this mess.
NO he is not perfect.
BUT he’s a damned sight better than what we expected to have.
There is no “C” on his uniform like the one Felton had last season. The on-court leadership is Jackson and Wallace and they’re too busy throwing each other dark looks and blaming others to take the lead in anything apart from bellyaching.
At least Jackson has manned up enough after the weekend to take responsibility and say that as one of the team captains it was up to him to find a way to play harder and smarter.
DJ is doing one hell of a job. You can’t even justify blaming him for the barrage of open threes opponents are killing us with every night. The perimeter is the largest area to defend on the entire court. When DJ’s man is out past the elbow and rifles the ball to someone else in the corner for a wide-open trey it is NOT Augustin’s fault. All he can do is attempt to knock the pass out of bounds or steal it. If you watched the calamity against Memphis you may take note of the fact that between steals, and forced turnovers DJ was responsible for causing over 1/2 of the Grizzlies’ 15 turnovers. Or maybe it’s his fault that he was the lone man back on repeated 3-on-1 and 4-on-1 breaks? I mean, whether or not EVERY SINGLE ONE of his teammates was still beyond half-court he should have just toughened up his D and stopped the basket each time.
Blaming Augustin for the Bobcats woes is like blaming Ronald McDonald when you get a bad burger. Neither one of them is actually running the show.
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Felton just seemed to have more presence than DJ
I think DJ’s a better shooter and clearly protects the ball better. But there was something in Felton that can’t be put in a stat column… things like picking Labron James pocket, creating a fast break… Or hitting an unbelievable last minute shot. And he couldn’t be bullied like DJ is sometimes.
I’m not blaming DJ, I just think Felton’s absence is a lot bigger than what some of his haters want to believe.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Presence doesn't win you ball games.
Talent does. DJ is equal or superior to Felton in that category. It’s not the PG play that’s changed, it’s the performance of the other positions. That’s not Augustin’s fault.
Oh, and P.S.: Felton hit on about 20% of his game-winning shots. Should that impress us?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Clearly his presence did win ball games
DJ’s talent that you’re so drooling after sure isn’t winning any.
Felton did everything LB said last year, and the team rallied around him and made the playoffs. DJ on the other hand butted heads with LB last year… Ironic? Doubt it. The common denominator is the PG position, not the coach.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
There's also the fact that they're just plain older.
Guys don’t get better once they hit 30.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
Hey...I'm 30+
Wait for it™
"Proud member of the creative team at tradestreetpost.com - the newest member of the Bobcats blogging community."
by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
And I'm 53. But I have gusts up into the low 60s.
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
If you're going to compare Jackson and Wallace to last year
Go HERE
Wait for it™
"Proud member of the creative team at tradestreetpost.com - the newest member of the Bobcats blogging community."
by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
The real effect on Crash & Jack:
It’s extrememly difficult to dribble, shoot, rebound, or do almost anything else in the NBA with only one hand. If they would stop using the other hand to point at everyone ELSE’S problems, they might just perform to their old levels.
Proud member of the creative team bringing you the Trade Street Post, the latest member of the Bobcats blog family.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
...and our aging veterans are a year older.
You’re crazy if you believe we’ve gotten anything near the same contributions this year from Wallace or Jackson. Hell, the bench (led by McGuire) can’t even produce to the level of Graham and Murray. And Augustin isn’t a backup. He’s an above-average starter in the NBA.
P.S.: How would you have made those moves to “get better?” Would you have offered the millions we needed to pay and wouldn’t have gotten from revenue sharing?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 16, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
So your point is that it is just inevitable that we would be worse?
And that Graham was a difference maker. Duly noted.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Pretty much.
We were too cap-constrained to get any better, and we didn’t have any young players we could reasonably expect to improve to the point that they made the team better at large. And no, I didn’t say Graham was a “difference-maker.” I said he was part of a bench that was significantly better than the one we have.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I can agree with your first point, but not your 2nd
Our bench is too often Carrol and McGuire first up, while much better players are still on the bench.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don't disagree with you.
But potential doesn’t put points on the board. Production does. And we’re not getting the same production.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think McGuire's defense is blown out of proportion
Half of his rebounds are unchallenged and he seriously handicaps us offensively. D. Brown can get to the rim much better than McGuire. Point being, I think bench production could be better.
This is where LB really confuses me.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Would you have rather kept Felton and let Tyrus Thomas go? Those were our options.
Regardless of his limited playing time (and that IS Larry Brown’s decision) Thomas is an excellent baller and with decent training (again, LB’s alleged realm) is capable of much more.
We had to let one of them leave and although it was debatable how much Felton would perform in another system, it’s looking more and more that he made the wise choice. It’s worth mentioning again that we didn’t just let Felton go, HE CHOSE TO LEAVE. He had been offered deals almost identical to the one he took with the Knicks and turned them down, choosing instead to test his value in free agency.
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
He had been offered deals FAR BETTER than the one he took with NY.
They were simply off the table the moment he got his ass torn up by Jameer Nelson, of all people.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 17, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, and he'd turned up his nose to them like they had a bad smell.
Similar money, graduated raises, incentive bonuses, and more years. (The last I heard was 4 years with a player option.) Every time Rod Higgins made him an “authorized” offer, Felton added another million onto the ground floor. I heard that happened twice and after the 2nd time Jordan’s response (through Higgins) essentially amounted to, “good luck out there.” That wasn’t from my most reliable person in the Bobcats offices, but the numbers matched the ones you were mentioning here at the time.
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 18, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not arguing that our hands weren't tied.
My point is merely that Felton brought more to this team than what some of you want to give him credit for. It’s only logically that if you want to improve on a season, you add to your team or replace players with talent that is definitely better.
But all we did was lose talent, promote bench players and hoped for the best. So our current predicament shouldn’t be a surprise.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Throwing out some potential replacements...
Young and preferably with some player experience…Mark Jackson? Anyone else have any ideas? My brain hurts from watching us play “basketball” if you can even call it that!
Sure
Rudy Tomjohnavich
Jeff Van Gundy
Matt Geiger
Dell Curry
Muggsy Bogues
Bruce Barker
Dave Cowens
Paul Silas
PJ Carlissemo
Andrew Lail
Alonzo Mourning
Charles Oakley…
Wait, what was this a list for?
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
I can coach.
I’m an excellent coacher.
Anyone not playing the right way will get wheelchair treadmarks on their new Jordans.
oh, and:
Kmart sucks.
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
IT's not criticism...
its PUNISHMENT…
wait…what?
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 17, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Barker is hands down my number 1 choice, but...
PG’s make great coaches more times than not, so i’m throwing Jalen Rose in as my darkhorse…Maybe Bruce Bowen, bowties are quite pimp…
Imagine Bruce as Head Coach...and if he would have me...
myself as an assistant
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
Tyrus Needs to be released
We’re 3-5 in December. 6 games left and 4 are very winnable. I’ll take .500 in Dec though it sucks how we got here with these blowouts. Every game in Nov was close but we were 6-8. October was 0-3.
This whole time we’ve wondered what the teams identity was. This month a path was chosen about playing D and staying uptempo. That normally works for us. But guys, when we play a team that equals our D we lose big.
I just think, a few more 3’s and 10 footers made and we’re usually okay within the gameplan. The Memphis game though was about points in the paint. +30 for Memphis in points in the paint. final score was +33. Turnovers and poor D led to that.
To be honest, before we go to the extreme of firing LB
Why not just make the one move we all think should’ve been done for some time now, just start Tyrus and let him play 35 minutes a game. That alone will improve this team tremendously, but for some reason LB doesn’t like or trust him. Tyrus playing with the starters and Wallace and Jackson getting their groove back is really all that’s needed for the team to get on the roll, until that happens we’ll continue to be a below average team.
Larry Brown's refusal to start Tyrus is one of the reasons we want him gone.
by Charlotte Bobcat on Dec 16, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is my beef too
I just don’t see why LB is so against playing this guy, we’re almost a quarter into this season, we’re losing, and we need changes. Why LB won’t even consider this is baffling, he’s either super stubborn or he doesn’t care for Tyrus game, and I think it’s more the latter than anything.
Tyrus is one of the few people on the team that stays with Augustin in transition as well.
He hustles, both on D and on the fast breaks. Isn’t that one of the things LB has complained loudest about was the lack of hustle among the starters?
Granted, Thomas is still a bit rough around the edges and sometimes pushes up shots that really aren’t there or in his range, but that’s still better than a Frenchman that passes up open layups to dish back out to a completely covered perimeter player. Thomas’ per 36 in some of the games where he got limited court time is insane, better than a point a minute. If Brown spent half as much time working with Thomas as he does kissing McGuires butt we’d have another potential All-Star on the squad.
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 18, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
I only wish I could rec this more than once.
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I added my rec
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 17, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
FLBN
Fire Larry Brown Now
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 16, 2010 9:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Jordan's really going shopping and Larry is still with the team it tells me 2 things.
1. Larry’s not leaving. A good owner wants to build the team around the skills of the coach. If he was firing Brown he’d do it and ask the new coach for suggestions before trading.
2. This also means that LB will be in Jordan’s ear closer than the wax and telling who to trade and who to try and get in return. So anyone new coming in is likely to be more of the same. Rehab projects, players with no future elsewhere, players that are so against running that their noses stay dry when they have a cold, and almost no chance of anyone under the age of 26.
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 18, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Why is T-Time not starting in Wallace's absence?
I know it’s not the same position, but a lineup with Diaw and Thomas in could be interesting.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Dec 16, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Why isn't Brown Starting?
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 17, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Why am I not starting?
I definitely wouldn’t be lacking in effort.
Same here
Power Guard at your service
Wait for it™
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by andrewlail76 on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Because you don't try as hard as McGuire does
Nobody does, actually, so don’t feel bad.
Thank you, San Francisco!
Can you consistently miss shots that are more than 3 feet from the rim? Can you sink 50% of your layups?
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by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 17, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
One thing McGuire excels at...
Getting those defensive rebounds when there is nobody at the rim except a few Bobcats.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
He tries harder than all of his teammates to pull those down
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

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