Bobcats Yet to Figure Out Backup Power Forward
by David A. Arnott on Aug 8, 2009 6:29 PM EDT
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It's good to see Rick Bonnell back writing for the Observer and throwing some fastballs. Beat writer coverage is still essential to the modern sports fan experience, and Bonnell is one of the good writers who also writes commentary based on the experience of seeing more home and road games in person than just about anyone. I saw every home game and three road games in person last season, all on my own dime. Bonnell saw way more than that in person.
Obviously, I disagree with several of his statements, which astute commenters pointed out to him: Okafor did improve upon his rookie season, was arguably better than Chandler over the past few years, and was inarguably healthier last season, which is the most important season when weighing a player's skills and abilities. (Move on, David. It's over. Move on...)
But most interesting is that Bonnell kind of skirts around the question of whether or not the Bobcats are purely dumping salary for this season, a la the Grizzlies.
Right now, they have twelve players signed, and must have a thirteenth, per the CBA. That guy will probably be Raymond Felton. However, they don't have a legit backup power forward. As of now, the team is looking at a committee approach headed by Vladimir Radmanovic, the two centers, Diop and Mohammed (with Chandler at PF), and 2nd round rookie Derrick Brown. Obviously, this is less than ideal.
But there are other solutions. First, if they're only going to carry thirteen, then Derrick Brown will have the opportunity of a lifetime. No one else specifically fits the position, and ten minutes per game for a 2nd round rookie is gold. Alexis Ajinca should see some playing time, but his horrific showings last year don't exactly inspire optimism, so Brown's the first choice. Say they carry fourteen players, though, and there are, literally, dozens of guys available who would play for the minimum and probably not embarrass themselves. Some would be terrible, but bringing guys in one after the other and seeing if anyone sticks is the best way to sift through that kind of talent pool.
Here are a few prominent guys who fit the description:
Pops Mensah-Bonsu
I can't find whether or not the Raptors actually control him, or if Hedo Turkoglu's contract will push him out. If he is available, he'll be a prime end-of-bench target for a lot of teams, since he's an energy guy with fantastic athleticism and a good work ethic (I don't know that for sure; just what I gather from reports on him). However, the Cats might be a frontrunner for his services since they can offer him the opportunity to compete for those ten minutes per game with just the one 2nd round rookie.
Rod Benson
A big time rebounder, Benson was also a scorer after joining the D-League's Reno franchise last season. Unfortunately for him, he may be too curious and smart for his own good, since his foray into writing for Yahoo! is the kind of thing that exposes generation gaps and misunderstandings about character. He's got the game, but will an NBA team see him as a potential contributor or a potential contributor who would publish sordid, sacred, details about the experience if it doesn't work out?
Rob Kurz
Last season for Golden State, Kurz played nominal small forward and a little power forward. (They don't really abide by no stinkin' positions in Oakland.) I have no idea what his defense is like, or if he can pass, or if he's got much athleticism (though I assume he's got some, since I saw him play once and Don Nelson brought him aboard), but I do know that the dude shot threes at about a 39% clip, and that could be very useful on a team that employs Gerald Wallace at the three and might see a lot of Gerald Henderson at the two.
Open rosterbation thread: Who's your white whale for the end of the bench?
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Not Sure
Sigh, I like the suggestions (I may be biased for Rod because I follow his blog, although the only dude I have actually seen play is Kurz) but I don’t think the Bobcats will actually even DO anything to address this issue. I dunno, after the Okafor trade I am still a bit bummed.
Making the playoffs is going to be tougher this year with reloaded teams like Toronto, Washington, etc. We HAVE to solve this hole.
Pops Mensah-Bonsu
I still like this guy…even if Brown does pan out to be a good fit for us at SF and some PF…if Chandler gets hurt…we’ll be thin…Pops would be nice to have around…
I agree with you, Mensah-Bonsu is someone that will always bring it no matter what the ocassion, and even if he doesn’t play, the hustle that he’ll bring during practice will benefit your team. If I had a chance to get Pops on my team, I would certainly do it. I’m a Spurs fan, so I was able to witness Bonsai in action for a little bit before the Raptors saw, and liked.
On a side note, why is your blog called Rufus on Fire? Any special meaning? Just wondering.
Another note, I live in New York, so I’m glad that Brown did to the Bobcats what he was not able to do to the Knicks (make them respectable). I’m also rooting for you to make the playoffs, but I think that’s about as far as you’ll get, but still, steps, not leaps. One more thing, do you guys think MJ is a good GM? I don’t think so, and believe that most of the good moves done by the Bobcats this past season was because of Larry Brown and not MJ, but still wanted to get your take on it.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Aug 10, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Mensah-Bonsu is a restricted FA
I think if he’s a even a blip on the radar the Cats will wait until the very end of the FA period to throw an offer. I doubt the Raptors will match anything, but it still throws a spanner in the works.
As for your question about the blog title…. Rufus Lynx is the Bobcat’s mascot so I always assumed the title was a play on ‘The Roof is on Fire’ by The Bloodhound Gang. I may be wrong though, DA might have to tell you himself.
Thanks, I was unaware that Rufus Lynx was the mascot, and am pretty sure it’s a play on words too.
I also didn’t know Pops was a restricted free agent, and that certainly complicates things when picking someone up, since I think the raptors would try to match any reasonable offer.
"He's Manu Ginobili"
by the little o on Aug 10, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Rufus Lynx is the Bobcat’s mascot so I always assumed the title was a play on ‘The Roof is on Fire’ by The Bloodhound Gang.
You got it. Bonus: Rufus Lynx was named that because the scientific name for the bobcat is lynx rufus.
by David A. Arnott on Aug 10, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting...
knowing Bob Johnson I always assumed his middle name was Rufus or something. Either that or he REALLY like ‘Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure’.
Spanner?
Is that a Star Wars reference, or an Australian one?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
My bad...
In Australia we call a wrench a spanner…. you use it in the same context: i.e. Throw a wrench in the works.
Got it.
I’m a big Star Wars dork. Their multi-tool is called a spanner, and I’ve seen it used in the same context.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Aussie Pride!
That Andersen kid got signed to a guaranteed deal today by the Rockets, in part to help fill the Yao void.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
MJ is awful as an exective.
His teams are around .350 under him.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Grizzlies dumping salary?
Besides Hakim Warrick’s 3 million dollar QO, what salary have the Grizzlies dumped this offseason? They traded a 7 million dollar contract for a 34 million dollar contract, signed a bunch of draft picks, and just traded nothing for a 4 million dollar contract and draft pick.
Not signing new players isn’t exactly the same as dumping salary.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
I have.
And still say that not signing players is different than dumping salary.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Aug 9, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess you're technically right...
but I believe that saving money was the point. I don’t see a need to quibble over how it’s done.
Leon Powe
Still hasn’t been signed by any team. I understand he’s coming off surgery, but here’s a kid getting a raw deal because he played hurt and got injured. This is a kid who averaged over 7pts and right at 5rpg on 17 minutes.
Seems to be a hard working, Larry Brown player. He could be had for cheaper than the veteran minimum too.
Is he going to be able to play?
That’s my concern with Powe. I like your point about Powe deserving some recognition, but just thinking about the bottom line. If his knee’s not ready, why pay him to sit on the bench?
Aren’t we already worried about Chandler being hurt?
Word is his will be ready to play, he's rehabbing now...
There is also a difference between signing a backup PF for close to the league minimum and our $10 million dollar starting C.
I think we sign the kid, if he’s able to comeback great, if not he hasn’t been a giant investment.
If he's ready to play early in the season and will sign for the league minimum...
then I agree, that’s a good risk.
I was under the impression that it’d be a while before he was ready to play though.
Leon Powe is signing with the Cleveland Cavaliers
According to Yahoo! Sports. A 2 year, minimun salary deal.
He's not supposed to be ready until February.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Bring the BOOM THROW POW to NC
I all for giving the shot to Rod Benson. Why not? So what if he writes about his time witht the Cats. With twitter and all the other outlets out there what can he really tell us that we dont already know. Plus his boarding skills would be a sweet addition to the Cats.
Bad spellers of the world untie.
Florent Pietrus
MP’s brother (6-7 / 192 pds / 28 years-old)
He is the perfect back up 4. Very athletic (a kind of taller and bigger Mike Pietrus), good skills, willing to play int he NBA and … very cheap !
Flo has had a good carrer in France and Spain. He is a stater in the french team (at 4, Boris playing 3). I can tell you he is a true competitor and he will definitely produce.
LB has an eye on him as he is working with the french national team this summer. So, this is a serious option and, as a French Bobcat fan (DIaw’s fan to be honest…), belive me, this is a great option.
We'd become the Marseille Bobcats!
Ajinca, Diaw and Pietrus… then we sign and trade Felton and someone for Tony Parker.
In all honestly though, we need somebody proven, not another international project. The kid may be really good but we need NBA experience at the 4.
by James Dator on Aug 10, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Considering that we're not spending competitive money on proven Vet's
Florent may not be a bad risk to take. I’ve never seen the guy play so I don’t know if he’s worth it or not.
Whoever we get at the backup 4 spot is going to be a low cost, and likely low reward option.
He averaged 3-2 in France.
Why the fuck would he be able to be an NBA player?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He got buried the last 2 seasons on Valencia's bench.
Played last week in a game between France and Italy, held Bargnani to 10 pts and led France in scoring with 20pts and 4 boards. Marco Bellini was the lead scorer in the game with 26.
So did his team have an agenda against him?
It doesn’t make any sense to me that the guy wouldn’t be getting run if he’s one of their best players.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
From the information I can gather (using my 4 semesters of college French)
Florent Pietrus is a bigtime crowd favorite (think Europe’s Chris “Birdman” Andersen) he was traded to Valencia during their rebuilding period. The new coach that came is seems a little nutty and ‘size obsessed’ he had issues starting a 6’7" Power Foward, so he was benched.
The European system is very different. As the games are two 20min halfs starters are usually left in alot longer and being benched can normally lead to minimal minutes at best.
From everything I’ve read and seen French basketball fans are talking about what a sleeper he is and that it’s a great pickup. I haven’t seen enough of his game, but for a minimum deal we’re getting another player who can play multiple positions and is a true veteran (albiet a European one).
Also won the dunk contest last year in the ACB Superliga.
Thanks for the perspective James
I’ve never trusted direct comparisons from International stat lines to NBA stat lines.
There are far too many variables for us to really draw a conclusion based on those stats alone. Having said that, I’m sure we’d all feel more comfortable if this guy was an all star bringing in 20-10.
The 2 reasons why Flo is worth a shot are:
1) He’s low cost (low risk) and very hungry to prove himself and
2) We’ve shown that we’re not willing to pay proven NBA talent this year
To expound on that second point...
WE HAVE NO ONE ELSE!
If we were talking about more than the minimum, I would have a different perspective.
However, the Walter Hermann experiment worked pretty well and I still feel that we lost him way too soon he showed too many flashes of potential to lose him.
Even if Pietrus is a 1 year solution he’ll be a cheap alternative that already has some chemistry with Diaw.
Then again...
Herrmann had been very successful in Europe, including at least one league MVP, and, perhaps more tellingly, usually outproduced Pietrus (and they even played on the same team.) Even at his best, Pietrus was a 12-6 player, but he rarely reached even that mark.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 13, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Again...
I don’t think we should rely too much on direct comparisons based on stats. Herrmann looked like a real NBA talent when he got playing time.
I agree w/ James that Flo Peit is a defender/rebounder/energy guy. I don’t think anyone is expecting him to put up big numbers. I think we just see him as a good, low cost option filling a hole. The FO has proven they want to spend as little as possible to fill that hole, so why not?
I say this guy deserves a shot ahead of guys who’ve already proven that they’re marginal bench players in the NBA.
Did you read what I said?
Herrmann looked like a real NBA talent because he had shown that talent in the past. Pietrus never has. Or anything close to it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 14, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Did YOU read what I said?
I didn’t compare Flo Peit to Herrmann.
I’ll admit it was a bit of a non-sequitur for me to throw that Herrmann comment in there but if you’ll read the rest of what I said you should be able to pick up a cogent argument. I’ll help you out though.
1) I don’t exactly trust direct comparisons of Euro stats to NBA stats. Read what James said above for reasons why.
2) No one sees Flo-Peit as a guy who’s going to fill up the stat sheet. It would be nice to have our back up 4 be a scorer but versatile defense and a little rebounding would be enough for him to fill the need that we have.
These are the main points and the ideas that you should be responding too.
Also...
Looking at Flo’s athleticism on film we can see that there’s several players in the NBA with his skill level or less.
We’re not looking at an ideal choice for power forward here, but to say that Pietrus is nothing close to NBA talent based on his stat lines alone is misguided in my opinion.
"Skill level?"
Players like Ryan Hollins, Jermareo Davidson, and Alexis Ajinca have showed us all the skill one could ever want the last few years. Doesn’t mean their fundamentals translate to being effective NBA players.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 15, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
YES! Exactly my point Procton
Hollins, Davidson, Ajinca are all guys who’ve played on NBA rosters. That’s just the small sample from our team, there’s plenty of other examples you can look at all over league.
I think you may be arguing that Flo-Peit won’t be a top level reserve in the NBA. You may be right, I wouldn’t be too upset if you were right. But you’re missing the point.
If a ton of other long shots get a chance to play in the NBA, why not give this guy a shot? He has far more pro experience than the Davidson’s and Hollins’ of the league, and he’s essentially low risk because he’s bound to be low cost.
All of the guaranteed impact players to be our reserve 4 are off the board. We have to sign somebody. They should at least invite him to training camp. This guys deserves a shot at an NBA roster as much as Jon Brockman and several other players who likely won’t have much of an impact.
Yeah, I guess...
I just tend to wonder why he’s never been so much as a blip on the NBA radar before now at his age if he really is an NBA talent. Especially given that the production hasn’t really been there of late.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 13, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're getting a future star if we sign him.
I think he made an attempt to come into the NBA in an atrocious year (2003) with one of the deepest drafts ever, furthermore, slightly ahead of the curve on the ‘European Revolution’.
From looking at highlights of Pietrus he seems to have more of an NBA game than a Euroleague game, he seems more focused on slashing to the basket than spotting up for jumpers. This could also be attributed to limited production in their leagues… who knows?
by James Dator on Aug 13, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Flo Pietrus again
Yeah. Let’s dream : Felton + Nazr for TP…
Ajinca is a project (vague one)
But Flo Pietrus is 28 yo with 10 years of professionnal ball.
He can bring the 15 good minutes we need at 4. Easy.
Today, French sports newspaper “L’Equipe” clearly says that Larry Brown is interested. I can’t wait for this move..
Wow... that's more info than the Observer has
Nice info… I forgot LB’s connection with the French National team.
by James Dator on Aug 10, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Curious...
What is that connection exactly?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He has been an 'advisor' to the French national team since 2006.
Also spend the entire warmup to the Beijing games with the French team. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we trade for Diaw (starting SF), draft Ajinca (backup C) and now are interested in Florent Pietrus (starting PF)
Haha...
You really think Ajinca was on the radar, or hell, even is now?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know much about French media...
but if it’s anything like American sports media, LB’s interest could be more wishful thinking than anything.
Looks like the reports are true
Bonnell just quoted LB directly saying he liked Flo-peit
So...when should he be arriving in Charlotte?
My guess would be Tuesday…
by andrewlail76 on Aug 10, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
All I see out of Europe is rumors.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If Pietrus is signed it hopefully will be at a relative discount and a good value.
1) Despite all of the griping on many various bobcats forums about the lack of moves this off-season, if the ’Cats do sign Flo Pietrus, 09-10 could be a seriously new look Bobcats. With the new uniforms and the addition of Henderson, Brown, Chandler, & (potentially) Pietrus — potentially all playing significant minutes — the team on the court could be much different. Particularly if Ajinca sees an increase in his minutes too. Imagine if Felton is not resigned and DJ is the PG…that would be a totally different team from when LB took over except for Wallace!
Pietrus fits the mold of what LB seems to want in a player on this team. Athletic and versatile, with an ability to play and defend multiple positions(Think Henderson, Ajinca, Brown, Diaw, even Wallace and Chandler don’t have clearly defined positions. Felton & Augustin both played SG last season).
2) The NBA has made a noticeable turn towards the international game, and if the Cats do pick up Pietrus then it will be safe to say that so have the Bobcats. Hopefully, it will help the Bobcats the way it has helped other NBA teams that have had recent success in the playoffs with international players playing a prominent role. eg. LA, Orlando, SA, Houston, Denver, NO
Adding Pietrus, Chandler, D Brown, & Henderson...
…should increase the number of high flying dunks this season.
I love the notion of signing an international veteran like that for peanuts. There’s almost no chance he underplays his pay grade, and if he does, then it’s just another warm body at the back of the bench, a la Linton Johnson. If he performs better than the 1-2 million bucks we throw at him, than we got a bargain and he gets to sign a longer deal in the free agency orgy next summer. It’s a win-win all around.
by David A. Arnott on Aug 11, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
...
or we make a great international find and trade him for Nazr Mohammed.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Henderson is a 2 and nothing else. LB has also said that Brown is nothing but an SF at this point in his career.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Henderson has the athletic ability and lateral quickness to defend most PG’s in the NBA.
And I’m aware of what LB said about Brown’s current abilities. However, most (including LB) also said that he has the potential to get minutes as a PF down the road.
So Brown's abilities "down the road" help us how this season, precisely?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't
it just demonstrates what i stated above:
Derrick Brown doesn’t have one defined position. He is a versatile player with a long frame, something that seems to be a recurring theme in many of the roster moves made since LB was hired as coach.
But that "versatilty" you speak of...
Is something that will possibly happen down the road. It certainly doesn’t exist in any capacity to help us much now.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 13, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
"He is a versatile player."
At best, Brown might be a versatile player in several years. As of now, he’s a relatively limited player who can only offer decent shooting range for his size as an above-average skill.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 13, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh...
And how precisely would you suggest we haven’t paid attention to the “international game?” I seem to recall a couple of guys named Brezec and Herrmann who played pretty big roles here at times.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
And what happened to them?
And Just because we had two Euro Players doesn’t mean that the team played any thing remotely close to a international style of play.. Something i think LB is pushing.
BTW Procto, glad you’re not dead! I hadn’t seen you comment in days and was beginning to worry about you
They got shipped off in a stupid move.
And I don’t think that any number of international players implies we’ll play in “international style.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree on both counts
But i think Larry Brown’s style of basketball is more like the international game than many or most other NBA coaches’.
LB’s past involvement with USA Olympic Basketball and currently with the French National team is evidence of that. As well as the general style of some of his more recent teams: one true post player surrounded by four players who can all handle and shoot the ball. Think the Detroit championship team with Rasheed and the Cats’ roster last year with Diaw at the PF. The 08 USA Gold Medal squad had few low post threats and played a 4 around 1 type game as well.
I'm totally confused as to your examples...
Wallace is hardly much of a shooter or ball-handler. Further, the ’08 Olympic team had nothing to do with Brown; it was constructed by Krzyzewski and Coangelo.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 13, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Rasheed wallace was well known to play away from the basket and hit crucial 3’s in the playoffs through out his career in Portland and in Detroit (particularly the year the won the title with Brown).
2) The 08 Gold Medal team example shows that the “international style” generally is to play 4 around 1.
I was talking about GERALD Wallace.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 13, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Gerald Wallace
Contrary to your assertions, Gerald Wallace has an ability to put the ball on the floor with great success. And while his career 3pt% of 30.3 is not superb, it is good enough to keep defenses and defenders honest. Wallace will shoot and make 3 point field goals, particularly if left unguarded.
"Put the ball on the floor?"
Sure, he can drive well. But his actual ball-handling ability in terms of being able to weave through a defense or run the ball up the court does not suggest a good overall skillset. Further, his three-point shooting is poor, even for his position. Look at the other top SFs in the league:
LeBron-34%, 1.6 3s a game
Durant-32%, 1.3 a game
Iguodala-31%, 1.0 a game
Granger-40%, 2.7/gm.
Richard Jefferson-40%, 1.4/gm.
Rashard Lewis-40%, 2.8/gm.
Caron Butler-31%, 1.0/gm.
Salmons-42%, 1.6/gm.
Wallace, is, at best comprable to the bottom of the pack in outside shooting.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 15, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t question anything Brown does. He is a b-ball genius and maybe he sees it differently where you dont have to have a specific guy for a specific position, but athletic versatile guys that can slide and play in between roles. To me, thats more suitable than finding a guy entrenched at certain position, albeit playing out of his natural position and unable to play anything else because hes not versatile & not athletic(Chokafor). I cannot wait to see his numbers dip even lower in N.O., theres no way he will see the ball with Butler, Diogu, West, & Posey all vying for PT.
I can understand being optimistic about the trade...
but I think it’s a totally wrong to hope Okafor fails simple because he’s not a Bobcat. The dude was nothing but a class act when he was in Charlotte and hasn’t said anything negative since leaving.
Genius?
So why has he averaged 29 wins his last two seasons again? Okafor is a lock to put up better numbers than Chandler.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Flo has hops reminiscent of Gerald Wallace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05ahmLfD62M&NR=1
He’s undersized, but could possibly guard a lot of the quicker 4’s in the league
Flo Pietrus & money
Flo P is due around 550 000 euros for 2009-2010 in Valencia.
1 Million could be more than enough to sign him..
He is 28. Just wondering… Is there a maximum salary rule for a rookie year, even at this age ?
Flo Pietrus would not be considered a true 'rookie'
He entered the NBA draft in 2003 and went undrafted, therefore there is no previous pay scale to adhere to… they can sign him for as much as they want or if they sign him to the league minumum which for a player with less than 5 years NBA experience is (correct me if I’m wrong) $736,420 and can be a maximum of 2 years.
From everything I’ve learnt about Florent Pietrus during this whole process he’s a guy who is DESPERATE to crack the NBA, and has been for a long time. I think he’ll definately take a paycut and accept the minumum if it means he can play in the NBA.
The real question is, can we trade players to Valencia? Maybe we can convince them to take Mohammed! (just kidding)
Nazr
Nice try for Mohammed to Valencia !
Seriously, do you think there is a chance any other NBA team wants him and his contract ? I don’t…
You may have noticed I am not very familiar wit NBA contract universe so I have one more question : can we buy him out ? Any point doing that ?
No team will want Mohammed unless they have catastrophic injuries to their front lines and need a veteran, even then there is a stretch.
If we wanted to buy him out the first step would be for both parties to agree to the buyout, then to put him on waivers and see if there was a taker. Then from there the buyout amount would have to be agreed upon and it still counts towards the cap.
Buyout really wouldn’t be worth it given there are only 2 more seasons on the contract. If he had 4 more it would be another story.
by James Dator on Aug 12, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Kurz’ rebounding and defense are poor. Mensah-Bonsu is a less skilled version of Hollins or Davidson.
Personally, I’d like to see somebody from this group: Melvin Ely, Aaron Gray, Sean Marks, Donyell Marshall, Chris Mihm (if healthy), Johan Petro, Joe Smith, Robert Swift, or Jake Voskuhl.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
Also...
I’d say that suggesting Derrick Brown “specifically” fits at PF is a bit of a reach. He’s real skinny.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 12, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but...
As already said, Pietrus is in a tricky ball club situation in Spain because of his lack of size at 4. So, you’re right, his club stats don’t look good for NBA.
But he delivers summer after summer with the National Team. This is not a proof of consistency but it shows how he can play at top level (these competitions are close to NBA Playoffs)
Let’s take his Pts / Rbds stats in the last 3 international competitions he played for France (also I give a comment on the team behaviour and level during the tournament, which is interesting and linked to individual performance. Yes, Baskeball is a TEAM sport) :
• Euro 2007 (no chemistry in the team. Tony Parker’s overdependance. Finished 8th and don’t qualify for the Olympics)
Flo P stats : 28 mn per game → 9,7 pts – 3,8 rbds
This is intl 40-mn game. “Translated” to NBA-type games : 12 pts / 4,6 rbds
• World Championships 2006 (decent team and decent result. We beat who we were supposed to but lost to Argentina – who finished 4th – and to Greece in quarterfinals – who also beat USA in semis. Finished 5th overall) :
26 mn per game → 9,7 pts / 6,7 pts
“Translated” to NBA-type games : 12 pts / 8 rbds
• Euro 2005 (Great team, very balanced, best of the tournament. But killed by a 3-point Greek buzzer beater in semis, after blowing a last minute 7-point lead. Finished 3rd, Best result in our history)
28 mn per game → 7,6 pts / 7,1 pts
“Translated” to NBA-type games : 9,1 pts / 8,5 rbds
So I think this is good enough for a back up PF at minimum salary.
no argment here
Flo Piet…
He’s the best, of the best, of the rest, of what’s left.
We’re not looking for a star…just a good bench warmer that could step upo and give us a decent showing. Flo-Pete should be able to grant us that…
by andrewlail76 on Aug 14, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Hello? Level of competition?
He plays for France. His competition for minutes in the frontcourt includes Alain Koffi, Ronny Turiaf, Johan Petro, and Ali Traore. If you can get starting minutes (and there’s no excuse not to on a roster like that), there’s no reason you shouldn’t put up the mediocre numbers he does. Again, if you’re going to be a steady player in the NBA, you better be a great (or at least good) player in Europe.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 15, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
We know Flo's not your guy...
For some reason the fun of giving an international a shot at a roster spot over marginal NBA journey men just isn’t work for you. Fine. That’s your prerogative. Enough of the nay-saying, who’s your guy? Can you give us a better option?
You could just, you know, look above:
Melvin Ely, Aaron Gray, Sean Marks, Donyell Marshall, Chris Mihm (if healthy), Johan Petro,Joe Smith(just signed by the Hawks), Robert Swift, or Jake Voskuhl.
All have proven their ability to play and start games in the NBA. Pietrus never has, and they won’t come any more expensive.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 15, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry but it just occured to me...
We’re looking for a back up power forward Procton. We don’t need anymore centers. Tyson, Nazr, Diop make 3 centers. We don’t need a 4th center over a 2nd power forward.
I think you need to cross Aaron Gray, Robert Swift, Jake Voskuhl, Chris Mihm, and Johan Petro off your list. They would not only mediocre but redundant on the roster.
Ely’s a stretch to play the 4. I liked him when he was a Bobcat, but if I’m thinking just about team needs, he doesn’t work too well either.
That leaves Marshall. He’s a solid choice, and would essentially play the role that Howard played last season.
I know Flo’s a bit undersized just like all of your suggestions are oversized. I see Flo being able to play inside and outside, however. That would be vital going against the quicker 4’s in the East.
Two years ago, Swift was playing about 25% of his minutes at PF before he got hurt. Voskuhl also has a decent amount of experience at the 4. Mihm has played years where he played up to a quarter of his time at PF. There’s not a single guy on your list who has no experience there. What in Pietrus’ game suggests he could play in the post on offense or defense? I see a guy who’s a decent slasher.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 15, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok...
so those guys play some minutes at the 4. I never said they didn’t. I’m saying that if you look at their skill sets, they’re not really athletic enough to get out on the perimeter.
These guys play limited minutes at the 4, but are essentially redundant to what’s already on the bench. We don’t need another center to play spot minutes at the 4. If we were going to go that route, we’d just use Nazr as our back up 4 and save some money. We need a guy who can guard Antwan Jamison, Rashard Lewis, Bargnarni’s lanky ass, and other more agile power forward.
To answer your question: HOPS. Flo has hops, and he’s tall enough at 6’7 to use it decently.
I don’t understand how you’re so welcoming of guys who don’t fit the team at all and have proven that their mediocre, but so against giving this guy a shot.
What’s the worst that can happen, we find out he’s no better than Robert Swift?
Really?
So Pietrus at 6’7" is going to defend Rashard Lewis at 6’10"? Or Bargnani at 7’0"?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 16, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
On the perimeter yes...
Peitrus will be much better than lightening quick Aaron Gray or defender of the year Chris Mihm.
What do any of the centers that you listed...
bring to the table on defense that Chandler, Diop, or Nazr can’t already do?
We’re talking about fit here Procton.
Marks, Marshall, and Ely all have much better lateral movement than Diop and Mohammed do.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok So you've whittled your list to 3...hopefully
I won’t comment on Marshall because I see him as a solid choice.
To say that Marks and Ely have “much better” lateral movement than Dipp and Nazr sounds speculative at best. But we’re all speculating on some things so I can’t hold that against you too much.
Does that lateral movement translate to better perimeter defense? It should yes, but just because they’re better than Diop or Nazr, is somewhat better lateral movement really good enough to justify further redundancy to the roster?
Go to 82games and you’ll see that Marks is more efficient as a center than a PF. Several numbers point to this, but since we’re talking about defense, Marks’ opponents had a PER of 21.2 when he was at the PF as opposed to a 15.8 when he played center. Is this really the guy we want playing power forward? My answer is no.
Ely played so little at the 4 last season that he doesn’t even have interpretable stats. His PER while playing the PF last season was 0.00. He only played 30 or so games though. For the 07-08 season, when he played in 50 games, he had no recorded stats as a PF. As a Spur the year before he had horrible numbers as a PF (not saying much since he only played 6 games). You can go back to when he played in Charlotte and find that his numbers are roughly equal as a 4 and a 5, but that’s several years ago. Is this the guy we want as our PF? My answer is still no.
There you go, a numbers based look at your power forward candidates. If that doesn’t tell you that these guys are centers and not PF’s then I don’t know what will.
No.
I answered your question. I would still take any of the players on my list before another French also-ran. And I’ve watched all four players mentioned. Marks is more athletic than you’d think (don’t let his ethnicity fool you.) Again, i don’t see how your contention that my guys are centers is any stronger than your guy (Pietrus) is an SF who has never done much of anything against a lower level of competition.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Statistics say more than your one-sided opinion.
Statistics say that none of the guys you listed (except for Marshall) are going to contribute as power forwards next season. You can speculate the opposite if you want, but I’ll trust the numbers.
If you're trusting the numbers...
Then why the hell do you want a player who can’t even get consistent PT in EUROPE?
My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
He deserves a shot given the dearth of capable forwards
If you could come up w/ 5 nba forward FA’s instead of centers who duplicate what we already have on the bench then you’d have a point.
I’m not saying the guys going to be great. I think his quickness and hops fit our needs in terms of a reserve forward more so than any of the 7 footers you suggested.
The numbers don’t show that they can’t contribute, the numbers show that they duplicate the players that we already have. Get that simple point through your head. That’s my argument. Stop trying to twist it.
By the way
My opinion of Sean Marks isn’t based on his ethnicity, as you so crudely suggested, it’s based on his stats and what little I’ve seen of him playing.
Don’t start taking cheap shots Procton.
Other than size
I can’t see how any of those players are more desirable than Flo-Piet.
Guaranteed mediocrity.
As opposed to Pietrus...
Who’s more in the realm of potential mediocrity if his game happens to translate?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 15, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is that such a bad thing?
At least he’d be more fun to watch.
So was Earl Boykins.
I, however, don’t prioritize that when it comes to building a winning team.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 16, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Picking up another mediocre Center...
doesn’t make us any better.
Don’t get all high and mighty about Aaron Gray.
To suggest that I’m prioritizing fun is to completely ignore everything I’ve said just to spin your own agenda.
Gray is a former All-American.
Pietrus is a former All…what?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Sigh...
And the relevance is? We know what Aaron Gray can do in the NBA and we know he brings nothing on Defense that other players we have can’t already do.
The relevance is that one guy has shown he has the ability to start (albeit not at a high level) in the NBA.
One hasn’t ever even shown enough ability to play at this level to have even been looked at by the NBA by age 27.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Gray didn't play 2 seconds at the PF position last season
He played enough minutes in 07-08 to qualify for 0% of his teams time at the PF position.
If we had 5 SF’s already on the team and only 2 centers you would have a point to bring up guys who can play either the 5 or the 4 as being better answers to Peitrus. There are 2 things wrong with you’re reasoning.
1) you’re suggesting players who either play the 4 very poorly or not at all.
2) We have one SF in Wallace, a backup combo forward in Vlad, a rookie who, though I’m optimistic about probably much playing time this season and Diaw, our starting PF who can play any damn position we need him to play. That’s not just our Small forwards, that’s all the forwards. So let’s count the Forwards on our roster; 2 starters, 1 solid combo forward off the bench, and a rookie second rounder. Compare that to 3 centers. We need another forward on the team, even if he’s a combo 3/4 guy. We don’t need another center. A simple fact.
You’re right that all of the players you listed are move proven than Flo-peit, but you cannot deny that 4 out of the 5 players you listed are centers and not much else. You also can’t deny that we already have 3 centers who are are going to get playing time ahead of your scrub team.
How can you justify bringing a 4th center to this team over another forward? How does that work for this team?
Because basketball players are basketball players.
And guys who can score and rebound in the post are what we need. They don’t exist on our bench.
My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
They don't?
Post scoring is a weakness on this team. I’ll agree with that all day, but do you really think that Aaron Gray’s going to get minutes if Nazr can’t get any? I’ll say it one last time. WE ALREADY HAVE MEDIOCRE CENTERS ON OUR BENCH. We have more than one in fact. Why do we need a third? What does that ad to the team?
If you want to argue against Flo, that’s great. There’s plenty to doubt in terms of what kind of impact he can have. We do not, however need more shitty centers on this team. That’s just silly. If you named one 7 footer who could reliably score, or was exceptionally better at rebounding/defending than Nazr or Diop you may have a point. You haven’t done that though. You’ve named the bottom of the barrel tall guys in the league, completely ignoring the roster that we have and what we might need in terms of defense from our reserve PF.
In other FA news...
Anthony Carter is gone…strike another off the list of potential backup PGs.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
There wont be a backup PG signed.
We’ll go into the season with Felton/Augustin
by James Dator on Aug 17, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
There'll have to be one.
There isn’t a #3 on the roster.
My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
/didn't excercise his option.
My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Flo is a (very small) step in the right direction
All the veteran PG’s left on the market just make me yawn, and at this late date I’d prefer the Bobcats search carefully for the next Paul Millsap. So to that end, the Bobcats need to bring in a few options to training camp who can compete for that backup PF role. Primarily, the Bobcats need a defensive / rebounding specialist who provides toughness and energy off the bench.
Flo himself probably isn’t a very good pickup. Like MP, I’m very suspicious that he is an NBA player, and I doubt that he would be on any NBA team’s radar were it not for the success of his younger brother. He’s been a professional for ten years and has done very little to distinguish himself in that time.
If the Bobcats are looking for Euro players, they should pursue Jorge Garbajosa. He was a solid player for Toronto and the Spanish National Team and actually started ahead of Flo for Unicaja Malaga in the Spanish League. However, Garbajosa makes good money in Spain and would likely demand more than what the Bocats seem prepared to pay.
As I’ve written before, Richard Hendrix is my preferred option at backup PF. He averaged 14.5 PPG, 11.4 RPG and 1.5 BPG last season in the D-League and drew high praise from his coach at Dakota both as a person and a player. Hendrix would seem to be a great fit for Charlotte. Rod Benson or the return of Dwayne Jones could also be worthwhile options from the D-League.
I like Garbajosa...
But there are some other intriguing international options:
Marcus Haislip has NBA size for the PF, and has a versatile offensive game. Not a great rebounder, though. Viktor Khryapa is another former NBA guy who’s shown well in Europe (double the scoring and rebounding of Pietrus in equal minutes. Finally, Stephane Lasme has been more productive than any of them, and he was a former draft pick, too.
My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
As opposed to yours, which don't exist.
You hate guys whose numbers show they won’t contribute, except you love Pietrus, a guy whose numbers show he won’t contribute.
My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don't understand why you have to create these false dichotomies
Just because you, Procton, take extreme views and blur facts doesn’t mean that I’m taking an equally extreme view in the opposite direction.
When I say that players don’t fit our needs, that doesn’t mean I hate them. When I say having Flo on the bench is better than having one less forward on the bench, that doesn’t mean I think he’s going to make the all rookie team or some stupid shit.
Before you respond to my next post, why don’t you close your eyes, take a deep breath, and THINK about what I’ve actually said? Is that so hard?
Way to put words in my mouth once again
You are wrong, wrong and wrong again Procton.
I have acknowledged the limited expectations that we should have with Flo.
I did say that he would be more fun to watch than Aaron Gray and fits our team needs better than a 4th center but that’s hardly means I love the guy.
You don’t read a word of what I say do you Procton?
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