Okafor-Chandler Trade Leads to a General Consensus: Hornets Win Deal

by David A. Arnott on Jul 28, 2009 11:27 PM EDT

Everyone's talking about the Okafor/Chandler trade, and we've done the work of getting key reactions and analysis from around the web. Most people are settling into the consensus that the deal probably favors the Hornets, and the Bobcats probably made the trade for some vague financial reason that no one outside the organization is entirely sure makes sense. Sure, they're reducing total future payroll commitments, but on a year to year basis, they've taken on salary over the next two seasons, which might be more relevant to a potential buyer. Yet they offered Felton a qualifying offer when they already have a starting-quality PG on hand and they added salary all of last season in an ongoing attempt to become playoff contenders, so it's weird that they'd so suddenly change course on reducing future payroll.

Anyway, Queen City Hoops is the most notable outlet providing optimism, so we start with Brett's piece in which he argues that Chandler's defense is so much better than Okafor's that it could make up for the step back on offense.

Queen City Hoops - Big Trade in the Works
Yes, the Bobcats will be giving up some offense. The upgrade Tyson represents at the defensive end, from a solid defender to a great one, may make this trade a bit less uneven than some fans may initially think. I certainly felt better when the numbers start processing and I saw these results in the works.

Comparing Tyson Chandler and Emeka Okafor - TrueHoop By Henry Abbott - ESPN

ESPN's John Hollinger (Insider) can't believe anyone would trade Emeka Okafor for Tyson Chandler...

Emeka Okafor for Tyson Chandler? - Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
I'm sorry, but there's no way you can spin a deal like this.

Chandler Trade Helps Bobcats' Long-Term Bottom Line, But Does It Make Sense?

Brown went on to point out that with Nazr Mohammed and DeSagana Diop, Charlotte is deep at the center spot. The idea, then, is to play Chandler at the power forward spot behind Boris Diaw. Okafor, Brown said, was more of a pure center than Chandler. Brown can envision Chandler playing the four, guarding opponents out on the perimeter. "You want guys who can play multiple positions when you are trying to build a team," Brown said.

Okafor for Chandler - Page 3 - Bobcatsplanet Forum
I saw the title and wanted to punch whoever was floating this idea.

BOBCATS BASELINE " Ladies and Gentlemen…Tyson Chandler!
After the most promising season in franchise history, the Bobcats pull a salary dump; sending a consistently productive player to our former home team for an injured lesser player with a smaller contract.

More on Chandler for Okafor - At The Hive
On the official NBA trade rating scale of 0-10, with 10 being trading Kirk Haston for Lebron James, 0 being trading Lebron James for Kirk Haston, and 5 being trading Kirk Haston for Kirk Haston; I'd give the Hornets get a 6.

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Comments

I haven’t commented since the initial rumor broke.

After the shock wore off and I took some time to absorb this trade I still come to the conclusion that this has nothing to do with making the team better and everything to do with Larry Brown’s need to shake things up and the long-term need to cut costs.

I can only hope other moves will follow.

Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute

by mjschaefer on Jul 29, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions

Cute, the summary you chose from SportsNation

First, the proper title is “Chandler Helps Bobcats’ Long-Term Bottom Line, but Does It Make Sense?”

Second, try this section for a summary of what he thinks of the deal:

Chandler is 7-1, and though he is athletic for a man his size, he is simply not a power forward. He is a prototypical center, period. Perhaps he can guard power forwards in stretches, but can you imagine him on, say, Rashard Lewis, Kevin Garnett, Antawn Jamison, Chris Bosh or any of the other athletic forwards in the East? And how on earth could a team play Chandler at the four position offensively? His shooting range does not extend beyond the dunk. Okafor is not an offensive force himself, and Brown was frustrated by the fact that Okafor averaged just 0.6 assists last year. But Okafor could occasionally shoot from eight or 10 feet. And Chandler averaged 0.5 assists last year.

And another gem from the baseline:

I think this was the Bobcats way of participating in the NBA Cares program. Giving Emeka to New Orleans was such a kind gesture by the organization.

Another statistical comparison

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions

About the title thing. That’s an editing error. Didn’t choose to do that, so it’s been corrected. SB Nation gives us a tool to use for link dump posts, and the full title somehow got cut off.

Rufus on Fire -- SB Nation's Charlotte Bobcats Blog

by David A. Arnott on Jul 29, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Aha...

Fair.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions

3 Centers, $24 million, ZERO all stars

And they wonder why they have trouble filling half of the arena? MJ needs to take a page from Donny Nelson and force himself to NOT commit to anymore contracts past 2011. There is just too much dead weight on this roster now and we can’t afford to bring on anymore.

by Swollenstein on Jul 29, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think that's the problem.

Paying market rate long-term deals for core guys (Okafor, Wallace, Richardson, Diaw) is not a bad thing. It’s when you start picking up somebody else’s huge overpayment for fringe rotation backups (Diop, Mohammed, Radmanovic) that you get in trouble. Unfortunately, nobody in this front office knows the difference.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

You don't think its a problem to devote $24 million to a postion and all you get is 13-10?

I dislike the trade and prefer Okafor over Chandler, but you can’t deny that with either player, the organization is not getting an adequate return on investment based on the $$ they have committed. Just because the market is willing to pay a player X amount of $ doesn’t mean that player is worth the money. See Starbury, Steve Francis, Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Zach Randolph, Jermaine O’Neal. Okafor shouldn’t be paid more than $10 million a year, and even that’s a stretch.

But since you’re an Okafor homer, I know you’ll disagree. But at least please stop putting Okafor in the same breath as Tim Duncan. Duncan is arguably one of the 10 greatest 4/5 players ever. Oke will likely never make an all-star team.

by Swollenstein on Jul 29, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm confused, very confused.

At what point have we committed that money and gotten that production? We gave Okafor a contract that averaged $12 mil over 6 years. Given that he provides 14-11-2, that is exactly what he should cost and exactly what we would have to pay any other player (if not more) who could produce that line. Point out another player not on a rookie deal who gets paid less and produces more. Finally, when did I compare Okafor to Duncan as a player? If you’re again whining about the fact that it was mentioned Okafor is one of three players including Duncan who has averaged a double-double every year he’s been in the league, all I can tell you is that it’s a fact. Dispute it if you disagree.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I somewhat agree that its ok to give long term deals to your core guys, but not when this is your "core"

Not a single one of these so-called “core players” is a top 5 player at his position. Hell, I’m not sure that any of them are even top 10.

by Swollenstein on Jul 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, that's not how it works.

You can’t have seven players on your roster who are in the top 25 of the NBA. So you have to keep what you have established to be important pieces of your club you cannot replace. For the four players I listed, who could we have replaced them with on the roster when they were members of it, internally or through free agency (trades are a wildcard you can’t count on)? Exactly.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

You can have one top 25 player on your roster

Look at the the playoff teams from this past season. One common theme: they all have premier players at the 2/3 wing positions. I love Crash, but he’s just not in the same ball park as Kobe, Lebron, D-wade, Carmelo, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, etc. Most of these teams also have a dominant player at the 4/5 spot. We have neither. The point is, you aren’t going anywhere without at least one premier player. Neithe Okafor nor Chandler will ever be that either.

by Swollenstein on Jul 29, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Okafor is a premier player.

And he will make the All Star team this year. Wait and see when he gets more than nine shots a game and has a point guard who understands the concept of setting up his teammates.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

A premier big man would average at least 20-15

Let me know if he gets even close to that.

by Swollenstein on Jul 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Really?

Do you know that player doesn’t exist? Unless, of course, you’re talking about Moses Malone in 1983. Hell, the only players to have gotten 15 RPG since 1980 are Malone, Rodman, and Ben Wallace (once.) Your expectations of what makes a player “premier” are totally out of whack, but hey, have at it with your 20-15 guy who only makes $12 mil a year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Fair enough.

20-15 is a lofty to say the least, and I’ll concede that to you (a little backtracking may even be in order). My problem is that I’ve seen too many big men get overpaid in last few years, and I’m sure you guys know who I’m referring to. I don’t mean to sound like an Okafor hater, because I wish he were still wearing bobcat construction orange, just at a lesser yearly rate. If anything, we’re rehashing a debate from last year before the Bobcats gave him the new contract. End of the day, my resentment has less to do with Okafor’s contract, and more to do with far too many overpaid players in this league.

For $12 million a year, I want a guy who scores more than 14 a game. I’ll admit these are high expectations, but $72 million is a lot of money. 14 PPG means he had many nights where he was close to 20 points a game, but it also means he had many nights where he scored less than 10 points a game. Honestly, Okafor could easily lift his ppg average to the 16 to 18 range if he could get is FT% up to 70%. If I were Byron Scott, I’d get Okafor into the gym and start shooting a few hundred FTs a day for the rest of the summer.

by Swollenstein on Jul 29, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

But you're still ignoring the fact...

that a big man can’t pass to himself. If Okafor had gotten just a few more shots a game (3-4) instead of Felton bricks from the perimeter, he would have easily been a 15-17 PPG player. Yes, his FT% needs work, but that skill, for whatever reason, just doesn’t come to some guys. Shaq has made a pretty good career for himself without being able to shoot free throws, right?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I hate this argument bc it sounds like I'm arguing against Okafor as a player

I love Oke, I just hated his contract. You’re right, a big man can’t pass to himself, and Shaq never passed to himself, though I’m sure he would if he could (considering his shaq sized ego). Big egos aside, you don’t need to have a great PG to have a great big man, so stop blaming Felton. Shaq has never had a great PG on his side (sans Penny Hardaway, who was debatable as PG to begin with). I still say, to compete for a championship, you need 2 premier players (top 25?) on your roster, preferably at the SG and PF/C positions. Excluding the 2004 Pistons, this is true of every team that has won the league championship since ’99 (excluding MJ in ’98, and the ’99 Spurs).

At this point, I don’t even know what we’re arguing about. Simply put, we all disagree with the Okafor trade, but for differing reasons. Currently, there is nothing we can do, outside of discussing how this roster should be assembled for the upcoming season.

by Swollenstein on Jul 30, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

Let’s just pretend that Chandler is healthy and ponder roster options and depth

by andrewlail76 on Jul 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly!

Does anyone think this move, and the lack of pursuing any other big bodies so far, might have something to do with Alexis Ajinca and his future with the Bobcats?

Maybe his development is moving fast enough that they expect him to be able to provide solid minutes off the bench in the post. That would be nice if Ajinca DID end up playing like a top 5 pick this year. I don’t really expect that, but who knows?

He is 7’ tall and is supposed to have a nice shot. Maybe he’s beefed up some this off season. Any word on Ajinca?

by dudemanhey on Jul 30, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes.

God knows they had to be impressed with his 11-8 in the D-League. He’s currently in the French national team training camp…and he’s not projected to get a spot! That’s a pretty sad statement in and of itself.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Im not ready to give up on Ajinca...

but there is a snowball’s chance he’s the answer. Best case scenario he’s still 1-2 years away.

by James Dator on Jul 30, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Who averages 20-15?

You beat me to the post MP -

Nobody has averaged 20 & 15 since Moses Malone in 82-83 so your standard might be a little unrealistic.
Last year Dwight Howard was the closest to 20 & 15 at 20.6 & 13.8.
Next best was Chris Bosh at 22.7 & 10.0 and Duncan at 19.3 & 10.7.

By any reasonable measure, Okafor is in the next tier of centers below Howard and Yao. No other center consistantly puts up better numbers, and of course Yao is out this year.

Okafor averaged 13.2 & 10.1 last year (career avg. of 14.0 & 10.7) and was one of only 6 players who averaged a double-double. He also played the fewest minutes per game of those 6 double-double guys, which explains why his per game totals were down a bit. On the Hornets, he’ll get a few more shots and minutes per game and should easily be a 15 & 10 guy (as he was his rookie season).

by ClipCat on Jul 29, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I still don't like it!

I still think this is one of the dumbest things the Bobcats could have done. In what way is Chandler better than Okafor? Before you throw stats at me, look at the stat for games played. Chandler is a injury ridden mess, and I do not see how he is an upgrade in any way, shape, or form. This is clearly a dumb move. I can only hope that more trades are to come. I am a die-hard Cats fan, and I will stand behind them this season regardless, but now I have to get a new damn jersey! In this economy, how the hell am I gonna budget a new jersey in? (joking) I believe that Okafor is a far better overall player than Chandler, and the trade was dumb in my opinion. The Bobcats need a new owner ASAP!

www.twitter.com/jmiller112

by jmiller112 on Jul 29, 2009 1:36 AM EDT reply actions

I still don't feel like this is a coaching move.

I think Bob Johnson has a potential buyer for the team who was worried long term about the guaranteed contracts and asked that money be shed before they buy. Johnson told Higgins to trade either Okafor or Crash, to get future relief and MJ and Larry thought they could replace Okafor more easily than Gerald’s scoring.

There is a switch in my brain that refuses to believe this was a basketball move of any kind.

by James Dator on Jul 29, 2009 8:13 AM EDT reply actions

YAAAAHHHH FOR CASH DUMPING!!!

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.

by Aisander D on Jul 29, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions

I love this deal, you forgot to include this article by john schuhmann; http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/07/28/072809schuhmann.trade/index.html.
which focuses on what were the Hornets thinking for signing Okafor. He feels the opposite, which I’m in agreement with. Its very comical for me to read comments about how much of a great scorer Chokafor is, lol, or how much more ineffective Chandler is going to be. Case in point, go to youtube and try to find an Okafor highlight reel. Next, put in Chandler and see what you find. Then tell me who is going to make the most impact.

by D.W.G. on Jul 29, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions

Schumann feels "the opposite" of what?

His conclusion:

The trade seemingly doesn’t do much for the Bobcats either.

And his concluding line:

For both teams, the Okafor-for-Chandler swap is more than just surprising. It’s a bit puzzling.

Enjoy your YouTube highlights, but understand that they have very little to do with winning actual basketball games.

by ClipCat on Jul 29, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions

YouTube is very, very important ClipCat...

It taught me that Rafer Alston is the best player in the league, so it must be right!

by James Dator on Jul 29, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Wait a minute...

Is that the same Rafer Alston with almost identical rate stats to Ray Felton? Damn! I had no idea! Never mind guys, we’re set.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtyeJ3PV0xQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=velUZKRuuEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9cvnDtyI5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OANC15UcXeo

Oh, and by the way…\/

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

But Procton... I found a video showcasing our dominant, nasty, instincual new center!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEFNHxWwBws

by James Dator on Jul 29, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Whatever.

Okafor got blocked three out of every four shots he took. Have you forgotten already?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Silly me.

by James Dator on Jul 29, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Another quote from the Schuhmann article

Okafor gives the Hornets more offensively, but as long as the Hornets are healthy, he’s not going to be more than a fourth option (behind Paul, West and Peja Stojakovic) for coach Byron Scott. His addition also doesn’t solve the Hornets’ biggest problem of the last two years: an inconsistent bench

Good to know I’m not the only one seeing Meka as a 4th option

by and1droid on Jul 29, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes, that does make tons of sense...

Given that Okafor scored the same as Peja last year despite being 6th in FGA/gm. here. There is no doubt in my mind Okafor outscores Stojakavic this year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions