More on Dalembert
by rtgunn on Jun 23, 2009 6:02 PM EDT
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PrintOk, so this time I wont plagerize anyone's work. I was just browsing around on ESPN and clicked on the rumor mill. The report comes directly from ESPN and here is the update they provided:
Earlier today, word from Philly had the Sixers in talks with the Charlotte Bobcats, sending C Samuel Dalembert and the 17th overall pick in the Thursday's draft for F Vladimir Radmanovic, C Nazr Mohammed, and the 12th pick in the draft.
But when we checked in with ESPN.com's Marc Stein, he said his sources say the rumor doesn't have any legs. At least not yet. A hang-up might be that the deal doesn't do much for the Philly cap situation, and a jump to No. 12 from No. 17 is a mystery for value in a draft that still is loaded with questions even in the No. 2 to No. 7 range. We'll let you know when we hear more.
I can see why this would make sense for both teams. Obviously for us, we get out of not only Nazi's terrible contract, but we get out of RadMan's as well. While I appreciated RadMan's efforts last year, I definitely wouldnt mind seeing him go, especially when he's got at least 3 years left on his contract. Meanwhile, we get a decent center in Dalembert who, in my opinion, his very underrated right now due to his poor season and attitude this past season. Also, there could be someone that Brown covets in the draft that could be available later. You never know.
Meanwhile, Philly, while not doing much for their cap, gets rid of a disgruntled center who didnt mesh with there allstar PF acquisition Elton Brand. They get a decent outside shooter in Vlad (which I believe is a need for them) and they get a higher draft pick. My theory is that they want to have a higher pick to hopefully target one of the better PG's in the draft, such as Flynn or Jennings, to probably replace Andre Miller. Miller left after the playoffs without speaking to anyone, and never attended the exit meeting (neither did Dalembert, I believe), leaving one to believe that Miller may be on his way out of Philly.
Its interesting, to say the least
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I’m not sure what Dalembert does for our team. It allows Okafor to move down to PF but I don’t think it makes the team better. Not sure I like the move.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
Also we could drop Nazr and Vlad’s salary after next season. We can’t do that with Dalembert.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
I agree
I dont think moving Okafor to the 4 spot is a good idea. He’s not really moble enough to guard most any of the quick PF’s . He’s better suited for center. I do like the idea of losing Nazr’s contract but not Vlad.
by Ball Above All on Jun 23, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never liked the idea of moving Okafor to the 4 either
but I like the idea of having Dalembert more than keeping either Nazi or Vlad. I like that Vlad brings shooting and that he actually showed the capability of driving to the hole, but the guy is a bit of a space cadet on defense. I believe that if the cats were to make additional trades (such as the rumored bell for azabukie and bellinelli) or have targeted a solid talent around the 17 spot, then we wont miss Vlad all that much. I think, for the talent he is, that he is more than replaceable.
Quick note on the contracts. All 3 guys (dalembert, nazi and vlad) have 2 years left on there contract (this upcoming season and next). Only Vlad has a player option on his contract after this season.
How does Dalembert make the Bobcats better?
He only seems like a slight upgrade over Diop. For that, I don’t think he’s worth trading Vlad much less the draft pick switch. I’m not sure Dalembert would even start. The Bobcats might be better off with Diaw and Okafor than Dalembert and Okafor against most teams.
On a player vs. player basis, no.
But in terms of what each can give us as a backup, yeah, they’re probably pretty similar.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think he's that bad
I dont know if Dalembert is a great fit on this bobcat squad, but do you guys really think he’s not any better than Diop? Dalembert just came off a bad season in which he averaged only 6.5 points, 8.5 boards and just under 2 blocks a game while being inconsistently yanked in and out of the lineup. In the 2 seasons prior to that Dalembert was averaging over 10 points, close to 10 boards and over 2 blocks on over 50% shooting.
By comparison, Diop, at the top of his game during the Dallas playoff runs, never averaged better than 5.4 boards and 3 points per game with a 1.5 blocks per game. In his past 3 seasons Diop has averaged around 3 points, under 4 boards and 1 block per game while shooting a fg% somewhere in the low 40’s.
Vladman, in his past 5 seasons, has averaged less than 9 points and less than 4 boards a game while shooting in the low 40’s. He can create some mismatch possibilities when playing the 4 spot due to his shooting range, but its not like the guy is going to make that big of a difference for our squad.
Like i said above, Im not sure how Dalembert would fit on this team. But between keeping Vlad and Nazi or having Dalembert, I would take Dalembert in a heart beat. I think he is far superior than the current back up centers we have now and gives up a chance to really shore up our front court D. Swapping draft picks is a little tough to swallow, but if there is a time to do it, then it might as well be in whats considered a mediocre draft at best
Dalembert may be a better scorer...
But that’s not what either of them would be in the lineup to do.
Career averages per 36 minutes (so Diop isn’t punished statistically for being on deeper teams or because he entered the league out of high school rather than being a two year college player, as you’ve done above):
Diop-9.6 reb, 2.8 blk, 1.0 stl, 1.5 TO, 1.1 ast
Dalembert-11.1 reb, 2.7 blk, .7 stl, 2.1 TO, .6 ast
There’s also the fact that Dalembert’s contract, at about $12 mil over the next two years, will be tougher to move than Radmanovic’s or Mohammed’s individually.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
well the per 36 is great
but diop will never play 36 mins a game. A coach will never try to play him that much because they know he’s not that good. Dalembert has played extended minutes because he can and has been a presence on the floor. I’m sure if coaches had the same confidence in Diop, then he could have worked his way ahead of Eric Dampier…
And yeah…maybe Dalembert wouldnt be expected to score, even though he can….so what? Is it bad to actually have a big who can put the ball in the basket? Why are you holding that against him? Why shouldnt that matter? Because he’s not expected to? Are you sure he wouldnt be expected to, or are you just assuming that since Emeka has never been a big scoring threat?
So just to recap…you tried to compare 2 players based on theoretical stats. Even based on those stats, Dalembert is a better scorer, which you try to downplay for no apparent reason, he is a better rebounder and he blocks just as many shots. Thats not even mentioning that Dalembert has proven he can play extended minutes and be productive….which diop has never shown he can do.
Finally…yes, it could be easier to move an individual contract of $6.8 mill rather than one contract of over $12….but that doesnt mean it would happen. It doesnt mean a team will actually want Nazi or Vlad. And what if a team wanted to shed more than 6-7 mill in a season? What if a team wanted to absorb Dalembert’s contract since it would provide even more cap space? Couldnt Dalembert’s contract be more useful in acquiring a bigger name in a trade? Could Radmanovic’s or Mohammed’s contracts individually bring in any type of player that can be a difference maker at that kind of salary? It would have to since we’d be sacrificing cap space…no need to give up the expiring contracts of role players simply for more role players
It really doesnt matter because its all theoretical…just like what Diop would average in 36 minutes. Whats not theoretical is that Dalembert has proven to be a better player, and I’d rather have him than Vlad or Nazi
Dalembert isn't exactly a powerhouse on offense.
8 PPG in his career isn’t gonna win us many ballgames by itself. And if going 11-9 in 35 MPG shows he can “be productive,” you’re setting your bar for an NBA starter pretty low.
And again, having a marginally better player (which I acknowledged he is, here) to serve as a backup to play 20 MPG (if that…Diop only managed 14 after coming over) really isn’t going to help our team much, so why trade for and have to deal with a guy who ran his own way off a playoff team?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
In that case
why keep okafor…he’s only averaged 13 and 10 in roughly 35 mins per game, which means he’s certainly not productive unless your setting your bar for an NBA starter pretty low.
The reason Diop only averaged 14 mins off the bench when he came to Charlotte was because we couldnt afford to keep him on the floor. The guy looked like a liability every time he was out there. And while Dalembert is not an offensive powerhouse, he is certainly more capable of scoring than Diop. Having an additional big man who can at least threaten to put the ball in the basket can give the team a lot more opportunities to run new plays or at least work the defense.
If it comes down to choosing between having an additional big capable of putting up numbers close to Okafor or having a useless big like Nazi sitting on the bench while we watch Vlad forget to guard his man for 15 minutes a game, then sure, I’d take Dalembert
And we’d have to pay Dalembert for an extra year. Economically it’s a disaster of a trade.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
all 3 players have 2 years remaining on there contract
the only reason this would be hurtful financially is the fact that Vlad has a player option after this year…so unless someone is going to give him a longer term deal which makes him more likely to leave almost $7 mill on the table (and I cant imagine that happening), then he’ll most likely play out the final year and we’ll be paying roughly the same amount for the same length of time
Both Blad and Nazr have early termination clauses as far as I know.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
Yes, they both do...
However, I don’t see either of them exercising them unless they somehow become double-double players.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
For some reason I thought the team held them.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
Nah...
ETOs are basically player options, but here are a few key differences from another site:
If it’s an ETO:
* the player executes it at some point, and is therefore (as an unrestricted free agent) untradeable until after July 1, in which case a sign-and-trade could be completed.
* he doesn’t execute it, but is still untradeable until after July 1 because he could potentially execute it at some point before July 1.
If it’s a player option:
* he picks it up at some point, and is therefore immediately tradeable.
* he doesn’t pick it up, and because he could potentially execute it at some point, is therefore untradeable until after July 1 .
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't you worry about shaving that extra point and rebound off of Okafor's career averages.
It probably helps your argument. And his offensive output is limited by the number of looks he gets. Dalembert’s is limited by his lack of ability. And again, are you really totally unconcerned by a guy with a terrible attitude like his?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
dont worry I wont worrry about the extra point or rebound
because if your argument is that a couple of extra points and one or two extra rebounds is what seperates the bar from “pretty low” and “quality big” then all I can say is…wow
why do you say Dalemberts point production is due to a lack of ability vs Okafor’s is a lack of touches? In every single year of Okafor’s career he has averaged more shot attempts than Dalembert. In the past 3 years Okafor averaged 11 shot attempts, 10.5 shot attempts and 9.4 shot attempts while Dalembert averaged 8, 8.1 and 5.3 while they both averaged 50% shooting or better. How do you justify that Okafor’s point production is due to lack of touches when he clearly gets more than Dalembert? How do you justify that Dalembert’s is a lack of ability when he’s able to shoot 50% or better?
And honestly, Dalembert’s attitude doesnt worry me. He doesnt have a history of being a cancer, not like Iverson or Marbury. He was upset about last year, given the inconsistency of his playing time combined with 2 different coaches (cheeks and then Dileo) using him different ways
FURTHER UPDATE
This came from Chad Ford earlier today on ESPN insider
A number of reports have surfaced about a potential Bobcats-Sixers trade that would send Samuel Dalembert and the No. 17 pick to Charlotte for Nazr Mohammed, Vladimir Radmanovic and the No. 12 pick.
While I was able to confirm that the Bobcats indeed made the pitch, the Sixers just as quickly shot it down.
cant say Im disappointed even though I was in favor of this trade
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