The Winner of the Best Bobcats Trade Contest Is...
by David A. Arnott on Dec 9, 2009 5:51 PM EST
43 comments
MR. MANN, who proposed a trade of D.J. Augustin to the Wizards for Andray Blatche.
While the NBA's conventional wisdom is to never trade big for small, I think this is the kind of "seeking upside" trade that might actually make sense for both clubs. It's not perfect, but I think it's the best we could conjure in the thread.
For Charlotte, we give up on Augustin, but add a legitimate big man with both offensive and defensive skills. He would give the rotation sense and order as a big who can more easily slide between PF/C than anyone else on the roster.
Washington has been relying on Earl Boykins(!) for point guard minutes, which is never a good thing. When Mike James comes back, he'll still, potentially, have a spot on the roster since Randy Foye hasn't been much of a point guard for them this year and Gilbert Arenas is better at the off guard spot. If they're going to give minutes to Boykins, why not Augustin? The big obstacle would be that this trade adds to Washington's glut at guard, further marginalizing DeShawn Stevenson at the expense of their big man depth, but if they're willing to play Dominic McGuire at PF or run a smallball lineup with Mike Miller at the nominal PF spot when Jamison sits, this could give them a PG of the future in exchange for a rotation player.
MR. MANN, to claim your prize, please send an email to rufusonfireblog@gmail.com with your address, and I'll mail you The Art of a Beautiful Game.
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Love this trade we need another PF and Blatche can realy score the ball Huge upside great size and a nice shooting stroke whats up with Acie Law? I havnt seen this guy play alot in the past. Is he a guy who can play the backup PG?
Re: Law....
If you don’t care about winning, sure.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 9, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Congrats Mr. Mann.
I’m still confused what the plan will be for the PG situation next season if we trade Augustin though.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 9, 2009 6:17 PM EST reply actions
We could draft someone in the second round (seeing as how it’s likely that the first round pick won’t be protected) or I’m sure there’s someone in the d league. I would like to have Blatche on the team
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Dec 9, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
I like Blatche too… but it’s two steps forward, 50 steps back if you’re looking at starting a 2nd round or d-league point guard.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 9, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
I was assuming we resign felton to be the starter and we sign a second rounder/d-leaguer to back up
Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Dec 9, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
The money scares me.
I just can’t find any way to justify paying Raymond Felton as much as Gerald Wallace or Stephen Jackson… it just doesn’t compute.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 10, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
We only have to pay that much if he can find the deal he’s looking for elsewhere. Didn’t have any luck this past offseason (granted in that restricted situation that teams tend to avoid), so if there’s no market for him we can keep him for a reasonable deal. He wants to be here.
If he "wants to be here," why didn't he just sign the VERY reasonable deal that was offered?
One hopes he wasn’t worried about feeding his family on $40 mil over the next five years, or hell, twenty.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I understand he’s said in the media that he ‘wants to be here’ but actions and words are very different.
I was extremely surprised that he didn’t take the 5 year, $40 million offer from Charlotte. Normally a player who wants to stay somewhere gives a hometown discount, not the opposite.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 10, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
Im sure you guys are right
but do you have proof that he turned down a 5 year, 40 million dollar offer? I would like to see it.
There was a fanshot here when it happened, linked from Bonnell and the Observer.
The article is gone from the observer now, but when you read the whole thing it was $7 million for the first 2 years, then escalating in the final 3. Making the total deal worth roughly $40
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 10, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks James
I know Bonnell is probably the most reliable person to get Bobcats news from but I just dont know that I can believe Felton would turn down that offer. I figured the cats were low-balling him. Every Bobcat probably expects more money though, because of the deal matt carroll got and because of all the other terrible contracts on our team.
We didn't offer the majority of those contracts.
Frankly, Carroll wasn’t even overpaid based on the upper end of his potential. Now the contract was far too long, yes, but he was paid a reasonable amount for a young vet rotation player. He’s certainly both cheaper and more valuable than, say, Diop.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Valid
If he can’t get a deal in the free market, it all becomes a moot point. We may end up getting him for less than the $8 million a year we offered if he can’t find more than $5 in free agency.
I wouldn’t say they “normally” give a home town discount. I can’t think of too many players that have done that. Tim Duncan, Gilbert Arenas (100 mil instead of 105 mil… does that even count?)… I can’t think of anyone else.
As the codger in residence
I can tell you it used to happen a hell of a lot more often “back in the day” than it does now. When Dennis Johnson came to Boston several members of the Celtics voluntarily offered to take 10% pay cuts for the following season to help free up dollars to get him signed. You don’t see that sort of thing very often anymore though.
One thing we aren’t taking into consideration in all this however is that a lot of players want to be part of a winning franchise. It’s conceivable that Felton does indeed want to stay in Charlotte but that there are other considerations besides cash. If the team makes a run in the playoffs or he starts getting more noteriety he may be more willing to take a bit less cash. It could just as likely go the other way – the more the reputation grows, the more leverage he’ll think it gives him – but it may not be all about the money. But it is often a very real factor. If he gets an offer from a team like the Timberwolves he may be more willing to stay with the Cats if he thinks the team is working toward being a contender. Human Resource specialists will tell you that psychologically a person wants to feel like they are part of a winning team – especially if they feel they helped pull the business through the lean times. They feel they have the right to be there when success finally arrives.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 10, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I still say...
Offer a 5 year $35Mil deal with bonuses for each of the following criteria:
A certain FG %
A certain APG
A certain # of steals
Then a Playoff Bonus
A Finals Bonus, and
A Championship bonus.
by andrewlail76 on Dec 10, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
THEY ALREADY DID!
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying...do it again...
No increase…
by andrewlail76 on Dec 10, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
But it didn't work.
Why didn’t it this time?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
*Would it
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
With the upcoming free agent market...
He’s not going to get more than that, so it might
by andrewlail76 on Dec 11, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
The market is certainly not going to be worse for him than it was last year.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 11, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I gotta disagree a bit with you there Michael.
Let’s assume a best case here. Felton continues his outstanding play and even steps it up a bit. Let’s say he winds up the season with a clump of double-doubles… oh, let’s say 4 for points/steals and one each for points/boards and points/assists. I don’t think fans could say that would be a bad place for Felton to be.
The FO says “HELL NO! We won’t pay you $10 million for that peasy performance!” Ray goes to the market. The market is glutted with players looking for an upgrade deal but even worse than that, these are NAME players. Felton will be the new hero on the block compared to some of the other names being batted around. Attendance is down enough around the league that the owners have already made public statements that there will be radical changes and concessions made by the player’s union or else. I saw that just yesterday and I’ll fish out the link should you demand it but it was at one of the sites that posts amalgams of other places articles – hoops.com maybe. It’s so early right now that fortunes could well turn around, so it’s mostly posturing and bluster I’m sure.
Of greater importance though is that the salary cap is tied directly to paid attendance figures. Taking numbers from the same article I took the attendance projections from in my other post, the cap is going to drop to close to the $50 million mark and if the economics don’t improve may dip slightly below that. Even teams that are freeing money as quickly as they can are going to have less room to spend than originally thought. This could work either for or against Felton. He may be viewed as a comparative bargain compared to some of the other names that are out there, or he may be viewed as inflating his value in a depressed market. There are a LOT of names on the list and doubtlessly some will re-sign with their clubs before the market opens up, but it’s still going to be pretty crowded.
You can bet his agent will be fielding some hard arguments from team owners that are interested but only if they can talk the figures down. Because it’s so early right now, any numbers mentioned right now by players and agents are going to be considered starting points to be negotiated from.
I’m not saying your dead wrong here, I’m just saying that right now there could be reasons for the market worsening before Raymond can get his hat in the ring. We also know full well that if his agent is worth his percentage is going to be jabbering at Jordan and Johnson every chance he can and if the Bobcats make the playoffs the dude may well start using a megaphone.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 11, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
But last season there was no market for Felton
Outside of Charlotte, nobody showed interest in signing Felton at any price last season. There were a fleeting rumor that Portland might have interest, but that went nowhere. The Knicks and Clippers thought long and hard about signing Ramon Sessions, ultimately passed on him and never even kicked the tires on Felton. As negotiations slogged on, Fellton and his agent said they would find a deal elsewhere but ultimately returned empty-handed to sign the QO.
The whole ordeal had to be a bit humiliating. In that sense, this off-season can’t be much worse. I don’t know that it will be that much better for him either, but probably not worse.
Very few teams had any money at all...
And those that did didn’t want to spend it on a mediocre player like Ray Ray. Well, except MJ & Co.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Artest? Odom?
There are plenty of players who have taken less money than they can to go play for good teams. There are mercenaries like Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu who are gonna go where the money is, but there are still plenty of guys who value winning.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there are TONS of second-round and D-League players who are ready to start on NBA teams.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 9, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
there are plenty of d-leaguers that could be solid players in the NBA
they just need a chance to play. Like Nazr or Ben Zobrist.
--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..
I don't know that those are very good examples.
Nazr’s in his 12th season. He’s had plenty of opportunities to earn PT (for both bad and good teams), and he’s never seized them. And Zobrist got his opportunties, too…303 PAs over ‘06 and ’07. And he put up a 505 OPS. Five. Zero. Five. That’s awful. It’s not that he needed a chance. He needed to get better.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Just for shits and giggles...
I checked, and there were 11 pitchers this year who OPSed over 505 over 50 ABs. Among them were Johan Santana and Derek Lowe, both of whom have spent the majority of their careers in the AL.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
They're never giving up Blatche.
And yes, as JtA suggests, we’re fucked at PG next season if Augustin is traded.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
Congratulations!
I hope you enjoy the prize.
Interesting turn of events:
It’s rumored the Wizards may be trading Mike James to Miami soon for the expiring contract of Quentin Richardson.
The Wizards could very well be in he market for a point guard here soon.
Either that or they’ll spend the money in the offseason on Felton to stack their starting 5 with Tar Heels (Felton, Jamison, Haywood).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 10, 2009 12:58 AM EST reply actions
One imagines that if they're willing to give up James...
They don’t think they need the extra PG.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 3:54 AM EST up reply actions
Coudn't you find a better picture of Blatche?!?!
Man, i hate that picture of Andray Blatche !!
david, hurry up and post something new so we don’t have to look at stupid picture when we go to rufusonfire!!! Please?!
draft pick
i think the bobcats should just trade their draft picks away from now on, i have absolutely no confidence in the management picking players.
that would help the team a lot!!
i totally agree with getting rid of a guard or two to get a pf.
I don’t think we need a complete team shake up since we are winning games right now.
Sadly enough
You aren’t the first to suggest trading away a few years worth of picks. The only difference is the reason given at the time was that there was no point in bringing more rooks in since the towel boy has a better chance of scoring minutes under Larry Brown than a rookie does.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 10, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, though...
Draft picks just don’t net a lot, as opposed to, say, the NFL.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 10, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
With all due respect ... f*ck no.
This would be a HORRIBLE trade for the Wizards and is a completely irrational idea that is not deserving of a prize.
I don’t mean to insult anyone … but c’mon guys.
Really?
REALLY?
Representing DC with Wizards & Stuff - Truth About It.net and Bullets Forever.
Agree with you
Washington wouldn’t do this deal. We here probably have a much higher opinion of DJ’s value than the rest of the league would. However, if you read the other trades proposed in this contest, most were far more one-sided in favor of the Bobcats than this one.
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