Nets End Losing Streak, Beat Bobcats 97-91; Larry Brown Should Be Embarrassed With His Performance
by David A. Arnott on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 PM EST
64 comments
The Nets had to win, eventually. It's only embarrassing to the Bobcats if they act like New Jersey doesn't belong in the league, which they most certainly do. Losing 97-91 on the road to them is the same as losing to any other team this time of year. All they can do is keep their focus and keep working.
By and large, the guys on the floor did an admirable job. Brook Lopez had a huge game, with 31 points and 14 rebounds. That's a little damning of Tyson Chandler, but Lopez is a rising star, and he's going to have those kinds of nights. The same goes for Courtney Lee and his 27 points. There's a reason they thought highly enough of him that they demanded he come over from the Magic for Vince Carter.
However, the infuriating theme emerging again this year -- one that everyone warned us would happen with Larry Brown -- is the inexcusable mishandling of rookies and other young players. D.J. Augustin, Gerald Henderson, Derrick Brown, and Alexis Ajinca have all had their careers adversely affected by their usage this year. Augustin's encouraging rookie season could have been a springboard to a starting job, but instead he was undermined by the retention of Raymond Felton and subsequent signing of Flip Murray. Gerald Henderson just hasn't played, buried on the bench even though when he has played he's been reasonably solid and could absolutely be the backup to Stephen Jackson. Derrick Brown has proven in his limited playing time that he deserves a shot to win a rotation spot, and with no backup power forward in sight, that would seem to be a perfect situation for him, but instead, Vladimir Radmanovic(!) got those minutes, and now Coach Brown is going through all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify reasons to not play him, like putting Tyson Chandler at the four. Ajinca is a separate case. He shouldn't have been expected to contribute last year, and yet he languished on the bench. He should have been in the D-League most of last year and this year, playing 30 minutes every night and taking his lumps, but instead, he's been jerked around. What progress he's made has no expression.
And tonight, none of those players played. The bench and free throw shooting lost this game, and none of those players played. The Nets, one of the five worst teams in the league, beat the Bobcats, and Larry Brown saw fit to play STEPHEN GRAHAM more than 13 minutes and refused to play any of his younger players, even after it was clear his preferred formula wasn't going to put the Cats over the top. I've tried to express reasonable disagreement over the course of the season, but this performance from Larry Brown doesn't deserve reasonable treatment anymore. It was disgusting. The players shouldn't be embarrassed, but Brown should be.
Highlights and lowlights after the jump:
BAD
-- What does Graham have to do to prove he doesn't belong in an NBA rotation? I'm sure he's a perfectly good guy; the broadcasters seem to like him, and you can't be a jerk and stick around as a scrub for long, and he's stuck around for four years. But you know what? He played more than 13 minutes, was 0-2 from the field, had 1 rebound, 0 assists, 1 turnover, and 2 fouls. And he's done this his whole career. It's not his fault he's being put out there, but he's emblematic of Larry Brown's myopia.
-- Nazr Mohammed has been excellent all year, and this game is probably just a bump in the road, but it's still disappointing to see him crash so abruptly. 0 points in 11 minutes.
-- 18-30 from the charity stripe is bad. Maybe the Jeff Capel School of Free Throw Shooting should be discredited.
GOOD
-- Gerald Wallace is still a beast. 13 points on 5-8 shooting, and 20 rebounds. I keep coming back to the mid-late career Dennis Rodman comparison, only if Rodman ran the floor and finished like Drexler.
-- Tyson Chandler seems healthy. The defense doesn't seem to be at the elite level, but I suspect a lot of that has to do with being comfortable with teammates, and the Cats' roster hasn't exactly been together forever. Still, 13 points and 12 rebounds is the kind of performance we need from our center.
-- Good Raymond Felton is still with us. He was a facilitator for most of the game and scored efficiently -- at one point I think he was 6-7 from the field. He's still not the creator I'd like him to be at point, and he probably never will be, but for this game, he got results, scoring 28 points on 11-14 shooting and only turning it over 2 times.
-- Congratulations to the Nets for getting that monkey off their backs. They don't deserve it, and neither do their fans. Now they can move on and concentrate on the important things, like developing their young players and gelling as a team.
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Playing more than 5 people is overrated.
I’m loving the Flip Murray pickup… 2-9 tonight, 1-4 on FT and 2 turnovers in 17 minutes. Definitely better than playing DJ Augustin I reckon.
Chandler got a double double! Never mind that Brook Lopez had 31 pts…. that’s not important… A DOUBLE DOUBLE FOLKS!
Boris Diaw wants to make sure he gets back to the south of France early in 2010. Playoffs are overrated. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a less effective 41 minutes in my life.
You had 3 people busting their ass out there tonight: Felton, Jackson and Wallace… nobody else was worth a damn.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 4, 2009 11:06 PM EST reply actions
You know who loves to bust their ass?
Rookies.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Murray is the same player he's always been.
But Brown believes in a veteran who’s always been streaky because of his experience and know-how over young guys still learning the NBA game. Why? The world will never know.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder how long it'll take for Procto to show up?
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Also, David, thank you for finally expressing the frustration the rest of us have been trying to bottle this entire season
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
we almost win
at almost 3 mins left in the 4th we are tied at 86.. and then they stole the ball 2×.. our defense doesn’t work… we are giving so many lay ups..
Boris is not doing well and still we did not allow play D Brown..
I don’t understand why we are not using the rookies.. they the have energy to match with the nets.. our starting 5 are already tired and they will still play sixers tonight..
I am really frustrated of how LB is utilizing his players..
Almost winning is the same thing as losing.
When you’re up against the worst team in history, there’s no excuse. We just got outplayed by a really, really untalented team.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Two Observations and a bounced reality check
1. Tonight the nightmare finally ended for the New Jersey Nets. NJ fans – your prayers finally got a yes answer.
2. Tonight the nightmare fully began for the Charlotte Bobcats. Queen City fans – the answer is, you ARE the prey.
There is only one explanation for tonight. Larry Brown will tell the Charlotte Observer and anyone else that will listen tomorrow morning that it was the missed free throws, the missed opportunities, and the missed defensive assignments in the closing minutes of the game. Wear your boots. Bring your shovel.
Earlier today I said that Jax and Wallace would walk out on the court tonight and be absolute monsters. To hell with the final score, for them this was about restoring their credibility and pride as the best loved athletes in Charlotte. I was right. I also said that the team would throw everything but the kitchen sink into trying to win tonight. I was wrong. Approximately half the team couldn’t throw a thing because they got handcuffed and chained to the bench. As David stated so perfectly, the players are not to blame.
The one explanation for tonight is a bastardization of something David said earlier this week. He said that the Cats were an experiment by Larry Brown in trying to create a winning combination without using the traditional “two pillars with support” lineup that spells NBA success. Well David, I think instead that what is happening is that there is no experiment. Larry Brown is using Wallace and Jackson as his pillars and expects Diaw and Chandler to provide the supporting cast. All this will succeed in doing is breaking years off of the careers of two very good atheletes and exposing the inabilities of those asked to provide the support. It’s sickening.
If this is a correct assessment, the season is all over but the crying and the waiting to find out how many 4 number combos we’re going to get for the draft.
There is still one more possibility and it’s a bastardization of something I myself said earlier in the week. LB showcased his magical, mystical 3 guard axiom tonight. It made 2 of the 3 men look incredible. It made those on the bench look worthless. In normal circumstances I’d say our youth was saved for tomorrow night and we’re going to see Henderson and DJ at point tomorrow night with Jackson getting as much time as he wants as the shooting guard. Derrick Brown would be seeing his deserved start at forward. We all know that’s not going to happen. Not a chance. We’ll run our same poor 5 starters to death until we’re throwing up constant airballs that won’t even make it to the front of the rim. Nope, the possibility is this:
Between now and the end of the month the Bobcats are going to fob of at least 2 and possibly 3 of our guards off in a trade that will bring an aging, once potent big man in to play power forward. Brown is lobbying harder for it than the insurance industry is lobbying against medical reform. Tonight’s game absolutely REEKED of it. I reckon Felton and Augustin will be the main 2 names because if we wait until the end of the season their contracts expire and we’ll either have to re-sign them for even MORE cash, or lose them entirely with bupkis to show for it.
The real solution for this team – one that wil make us deadly and allow us to join the elite by this time next season is also as likely to happen as Bin Laden becoming the President of the US. Bite the bullet and buy out Diop and Chandler. The immediate cost would be around $12 million, but it will clear the living crap out of our salary cap and give us room to be a presence in the free agent market. We can recoup the money easily because the team will be able to sell our lottery pick to the highest bidder. Let’s face it – we could win the first pick and it won’t matter a snot because the poor dude will average less than 5 minutes a game if LB is still our coach next year.
So there are the cold hard facts as I see it. I’d cry, but the only ones worthy of it are by now exhausted and trying to steal what little rest they can before Brown throws them back out on the court to sweat off another 10 pounds each tomorrow night. I can say with true candor that I have a great deal of love for Gerald Wallace, Stephen Jackson, and Raymond Felton. Each night they give every bit of heart and soul they have for this team. They have differing levels of skill, but they each have equally gigantic hearts. I think what hurts the most tonight is the certain knowledge that they are doing it all for a couple of bureaucrats who couldn’t care less. If somehow you read this guys, we love you for what you do and we are bleeding right along with you.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 5, 2009 12:03 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Gerald Henderson was not, is not, and will NEVER be a point guard.
He really doesn’t have either the passing, court vision, or ball-handling abilities to play at the 1. And again, Augustin’s contract does not expire at the end of this season. He’s under team control (through options) for the next two seasons after this one before we have a chance to qualify him as an RFA before the ‘12-’13 season. And no, “selling a lottery pick” would never net seven figures. The Trailblazers routinely do this and usually manage about $2 mil.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I've replied to this once already
and once is my limit
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 5, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
".."selling a lottery pick" would never net seven figures. The Trailblazers routinely do this and usually manage about $2 mil."
$2, 000,000
Lets all count the digits in $2 million dollars.
Let’s see: there is ONE 2 and SIX 0’s. ONE + SIX = SEVEN. So….
There are SEVEN figures in $2 million.
As near as I can tell
it must be the “new math.”
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 6, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
The 7 figure reference was off, but
MP’s main points were correct. He may not have written with diplomacy, but he was correct that the original post contained many inaccuracies. Just because you don’t like him doesn’t make what he writes wrong.
1 – Gerald Henderson isn’t close to being a point guard, not even an emergency PG.
2 – DJ Augustin will not be a free agent next season. The Bobcats already guarranteed his contract (and Ajinca’s contract, too).
3 – Buying out Chandler would cost much more than the Bobcats could get by selling their 1st round pick, which by NBA rules can’t be sold for more than $3 M. The quote in the original post was:
The immediate cost would be around $12 million, but it will clear the living crap out of our salary cap and give us room to be a presence in the free agent market. We can recoup the money easily because the team will be able to sell our lottery pick to the highest bidder.
Besides those points, trading Felton and Augustin together is highly unlikely. Trading Felton at all is a stretch since he’d have to approve the trade and would be waiving his Bird Rights, which could cost him millions per year on his next contract.
Buying out Chandler and Diop is highly unlikely because both players have no incentive to give up guarranteed money when they are both unlikely to ever get another big money contract. And the FO would be admitting they made a huge mistake trading for him and would be paying a lot of money for a guy not to even suit up.
Buying out players wouldn’t make the team better. The Bobcats are a small market team losing money. The current ownership is not going to spend more money on top of the buyouts to bring in a high priced free agent. This is the same team that didn’t sign a backup PF two off-seasons in a row and who has never in its history signed a high priced free agent.
Even if Chandler, Diop and Felton all vanished from the Bobcats’ payroll next season, the team still wouldn’t be far enough under the salary cap to sign any of the big name free agents even if one of those guys was willing to come to Charlotte. And only seven players would still be left on the team (assuming Ajinca is a player).
However, the first half of OurDay’s post was right on, very well written and a product of someone who is closely watching the games. I appreciate most of what he writes and don’t write any of this to knock him. I was going to cut him some slack until others started piling on. He was just looking for some hope after a tough pair of losses. I wish the Bobcat FO cared half as much about the team as he does.
However, most everyone on this board cares a lot (too much?) about the Bobcats. Being a fan doesn’t mean you have to ignore the fact that management has and continues to ruin the team’s short term future. That’s being an enabler. I for one am not buying tickets so long as BJ, Jordan and Brown are running the team (except maybe for the Clippers game – that’s like a holiday). I’ll keep my hard earned cash until this team is worth paying to watch.
Eight.
Apologies. Ourd suggested that we could net $12 million simply from the sale of a lotto pick.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 6, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
How long should Larry Brown get a pass because he's Larry Brown?
I see two damn good coaches in Byron Scott and Lawrence Frank sitting around right now who might actually be able to use this roster effectively.
Sam Vincent: 32-50 (.390)
Larry Brown: 42-57 (.424)
Not enough of an improvement for my liking.
Maybe it’s just because I’m furious right now… but I pray someone will buy this franchise so they can shitcan MJ and LB, salt the earth and start again.
We can talk about missed free throws until the cows come home, but when you let Brook Lopez score 31 and his season average is 18 there’s your game right there; but no… we go ourselves a ‘defensive stopper’.
Like I mentioned earlier, great game by Felton. By why the hell is Flip Murray backup point guard? Flip plays like he doesn’t give a crap about the team, but is more interested in putting up enough numbers to justify another NBA team to offer him a contract next year.
Worst part in all this is that this is the Bobcats season to shine. I’m not talking lofty goals like the playoffs, but in proving this team is worth a damn. The Carolina Panthers are having a bad season, the Carolina Hurricanes are having a terrible year, this was their chance to win over fans looking for some measure of success. So you get hope up by going on a good win streak, and just when people start to take notice or bother tuning in you play like dog vomit against Boston and follow it up by losing to the worst team in the history of the NBA, bravo.
To be the best you gotta beat the best, I wonder if the flipside applies if you lose to the worst.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 5, 2009 12:24 AM EST reply actions
I too wonder how long LB will last.
Myabe we’re jumping the gun on this conversation, but his roster utilization (or lack thereof) has been atrocious, completely burning out the legs of the starters. Using semi-washed up or scrub quality veterans for his main bench minutes. Not fun to watch. Guys like Flip Murray, Stephen Graham, and VladRad are known quantities and don’t seem to be getting the job done, when does a rational, logical person look down the bench and say, “Hey I have these other players too, I wonder if they’re any better?”
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Maybe he's board on coaching, or this is part of some grand scheme to get fired right as the 76ers are fed up with Eddie Jordan and LB head's back to Philly.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 5, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
whoa.... im tired, long week
‘maybe he’s bored with coaching’
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 5, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I think you meant "he's tired on roster management."
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
larry brown doesn't have any excuses
He loaded this team down with huge salary garbage players (Chandler, Diop) and still no improvement
Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
PSH...
How dare you suggest Brown isn’t committed to this team? I’ve been ripped for suggesting anything close to the fact that he’s not on board for the long run.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
LB reunites with AI in Philly..
Maybe you’re right..
Hopefully we can get Byron Scott
Sam Mitchell or Avery Johnson could even be a good option.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
And Lopez averaging +25 ppg over the last 5 games.
The real reason the ‘Cats lost this game is basically what LB said: Missed FT’s and TO’s.
I know lots of y’all are pissed right now and want to blame somebody specifically – find a scape goat. But the truth is the team collectively missed 12 FT’s and committed 20 TO’s. When a team’s number of missed FT’s in a single game is twice as many as the number of points they lost by in that game, then you have identified the main culprit.
I know it’s not cool or popular to blame something as simple (or boring) as missed FT’s, but that has been this team’s true Achilles heel this season; and last night it bit them in the ass against the formerly winless Nets. If BOTH teams had made 100% of their FT’s then the Cats would have won. If the Bobcats had just shot the same % as a team that NJ did, the Cats would have won.
Hopefully the last two games will be the low point of the season. There is still a long way to go this year. Amazingly, the Bobcats are STILL in the 8th spot in the East, btw.
The FT point is valid dudeman
But so is the point that this is a team the Bobcats should have beaten soundly. Yes, they would have eked it out if the shooting from the stripe was at a reasonable level. Yes, we’ve consistently left points on the court by our ugly free throw shooting and yes, that problem was largely absent during the win streak. It’s the sort of thing that will ALWAYS mean the difference between W and L several times a season for ANY team.
Sadly, the ugly truth of it though is that with the addition of Jackson and the night that Wallace and Felton had we should have walked out of Jersey with a double-digit victory.
Chandler gave us just about the best night we can reasonably expect from him. Our bench can be effective and they weren’t used effectively. At the end of the game, with our starters climbing above to 40 minute mark and the majority of our bench colder than a penguin’s butt we had nothing left in the tank. The game was TIED late in the 4th and the Nets ran us to death to win it.
Now we have a starting lineup that is already exhausted stepping out on the court tonight to play a newly energized Philly team. AI won’t be playing tonight but the mere spectre of his impending arrival has given the team more press and more excited optimism than they’ve had all year. That spells adrenaline and our starters are ill-prepared to deal with it. Shooting 100% from the stripe tonight won’t change or compensate for that. If Brown uses our young players as ineffectively as he has done in the past two games it’s going to take a miracle for us to win the game. Felton, Jackson, and Wallace will give their all, just as they always do, but they don’t have that much “all” left. THAT is not their fault. We go into tonight’s game poorly prepared and Brown’s stubborn stance regarding the bench has already given Philly an advantage before the doors at Time Warner are even unlocked this afternoon.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 5, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
While I agree the FT argument is valid...
there comes a point where a team needs to stop justifying their losses by pointing out their weakness and there’s a time when a team needs to modify their gameplan to avoid said weakness.
If we know we’re a horrible free throw shooting team then we need to make sure our poorer FT shooting players aren’t driving the lane with reckless abandon.
If Flip is only shooting .581 FT, then he needs to kick the ball out instead of driving the lane to pick up the foul.
As it stands right now getting to the line 36 times and hitting 18 of them is tantamount to forcing your worst player to carry the load.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 5, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I understand your point about avoiding your team weaknesses...
But you can’t convince Brown to abandon one of his tenets (driving the lane to get easy baskets and pick up fouls.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
And you also don't mention...
That Brown is surely being paid significantly more than Vincent was. That they haven’t disclosed his salary is a sure sign of that. For a team hemorrhaging cash, that seems like a pretty awful idea. Flip, yes, is an awful idea as a PG of any sort. He’s a gunner without a conscience, and that works once out of every four of five games.
And I love you final question. I posed the very same on facebook this morning.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I knew it.
I somehow had this terrible feeling in my gut that we would be the ones to lose to them first.
"You and every other neutral observer of the team."
—Michael Procton
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
"Suck my dick, asshole"
-Michael Procton
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
At least he knew that it's not worth sacrificing the future to chase 38 wins.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
if you'll draft adam morrison that high, give elton brand a chance
Elton Brand & Jason Smith for Diaw & Diop!! Come on MJ! Takes millions off the 76ers books over the next 4 years, gets Elton Brand back into a starting spot where he has room to flourish
Felton, Jax, Wallace, Brand, Chandler
Brand played with Chandler way back on the Bulls too….
by bobcatRedemption on Dec 5, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions
Normally, I would agree with the Brand idea
but have you seen his contract? It has to be in consideration for the worst contract in the league. It tops out w/ him getting paid 18.1 mil in his final season.
I know the team has been taking on long term money to improve the roster, but if we think Diop isn’t worth his mid-level deal, how can we justify paying 14, 15, and then 18 million for a guy who just got benched on a team that’s playing way worse than the Bobcats?
If he could play up to full potential and stay healthy, then the deal is worth it, but don’t we have enough guys like that already on the roster? Why add another that’s getting paid even more.
There has to be a more reasonable option at the PF spot. I’d be content to just try and pick one up in the draft before I trade for Brand.
By the way, it’s not sound logic to justify one bad move (trading for Brand) by pointing to past bad moves (drafting Ammo).
Because Diop's never done ANYTHING in the NBA.
Brand’s been a 20-10 machine and a perpetual All-Star. You claim we have “guys like that already on the roster,” but I certainly can’t point one out that fits that profile.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
The trade idea was for Diaw along w/ Diop
I don’t mind getting rid of Diop, but let’s not pretend that he’d be the principle piece in the trade.
Brand’s best days are behind him. He still belongs in the league but deserve no where near what he’s getting paid. Procton, I personally forbid you to ever criticize the Bobcats again for taking on bad contracts if you would seriously suggest we pay Elton Brand between 14 and 18 million a year over the next several years to give us 13-15 points a night. That is just plain stupid!
What do we have on the roster that resembles Brand? We have guys who are injury prone and arguably over paid (Chandler). That’s what we don’t need more of. That’s what Brand brings to the table.
To judge Brand on how he performed several years ago, and expect him to perform that way now, ignores the facts. I distinctly remember you making a big deal about judging Chandler on his most recent performance when he came to the team. So far you’ve been right, Chandler is playing like he did last year. You’re a hypocrite if you don’t apply the same logic to Brand.
The 20-10 machine is in the past. Accept it, move on, get over it.
You think Diaw has improving left to do?
He’s not the player he was last year, but he’s also not the player he was years ago for Phoenix. Brand’s been a fine player everywhere he’s been but Philly. Diaw has been mediocre for each of the past few years for two different teams, and is getting plenty of money to boot. Tyson Chandler’s never been an above-average NBA player. He has (rarely) been a good rebounder, but his offense has always been atrocious. Brand has been among the most productive overall players in the league. Which player on our roster has done that?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 6, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't quite understand what point you're trying to argue
You seem to be championing a ghost of what Brand used to be.
Why does the fact that Brand USED TO BE an all star matter when he is FAR FROM AN ALL STAR today? Why do you keep reiterating what he used to be? I’m not disputing that he used to be a good player.
I’m saying that he doesn’t deserve anything near what he’s getting paid.
According to your very logic we need to judge Brand on is recent performance only. Or did you just want to go ahead and concede your hypocrisy?
Not quite...
Brand was already in LA by the time Chandler was drafted.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Solidifies what I said in another post...
If you watched the game. We have no PF. We have a “hybrid” that didn’t do crap for 41 minutes.
We have a team of guards, SFs, and less than mediocre Cs
How about Diaw, Diop, and DJ for Brand?
THe team is already screwed on contracts…Let’s give Brand a chance. At least then we have 1 REAL PF.
I suppose
I should explain why I say we have no PF. If we had one, Lopez is under 31
No one doubled him in the paint, and Chandler is proving he can not foul out. He’s also proving he;s not as fast as he used to be. He should be in game shape or close to it right now. He had a decent game, but he needed help keeping Lopez in check. What if we send Diaw and Flip to Jersey for Lopez and we send DJ and Diop to 76ers for Brand
by andrewlail76 on Dec 5, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I like the Diaw and Flip for Lopez idea a lot
Too bad NJ would never go for it.
Lopez has got to be their franchise player right now. They’ve probably given up on this season
Umm...
Harris, Devin much?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
You're bringing up Devin Harris because...
his presence on the team means that Brook Lopez is expendable? Is that what you’re saying?
Or did you just want to argue some random point about who New Jersey’s franchise player should be? Because I couldn’t give two shits about that. I was merely saying that NJ wouldn’t trade Lopez for proven average players.
Devin Harris is their franchise player.
If you don’t care, you probably shouldn’t talk about it.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
I was merely saying that NJ wouldn’t trade Lopez for proven average players.
How is that not clear? I mean, you read that sentence right? You know what that sentence means right? It means I was making a point about how important Brook Lopez is to NJ and that technicalities about who NJ’s official franchise player is really don’t matter. Is that still not clear?
Should I say it again?
Say what you want.
If you’re not oging to defend your own definitive comments (like, say, “Lopez has got to be [the Nets’] franchise player”), you probably shouldn’t write them in the first player.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 6, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Do you people really just not care that we have a PG on the roster next year?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
If The Man Do't Trust His Bench Then Why Keep Him?
When Diaw First Come To Charlotte He Was Scoring,Passing The Ball,Doing All The Right Things.Seems Like He,Just Like Other Players Scared To Shoot The Ball?Larry Has Got These Players Scared To Do Anything And They’ll Never Be A Winning Ball Club.
The NBA Requires You To, Have A Minimum Roster, Size.
In Addition To That?Diaw Is Out Of Shape And Isn;t Motivated To Put It To Phoenix Like He Was Last Year!When You Consider That Jackson Doubles His SkillSet Without Losing Much Size~ItS No Surprise He IsNT Doing As Well.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 5, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Brown's had nothing to do with Ajinca's dismal failure.
The kid was just never talented enough to be an NBA player. The difference between him and Augustin and Henderson and Brown is that they’ve all shown flashes of ability where they’ve hung tough with the best the league has to offer. Ajinca’s looked overmatched and lost every time he’s ever gotten a chance to see the floor outside of garbage time. And, believe it or not, there are plenty of people who belive, as Brown does, that a guy’s going to learn more practicing with NBA players every day than they are beating up on (or, in Ajinca’s case, fighting tooth and nail with) fringe-level NBDL players. It’s just that Ajinca can’t learn enough to overcome his lack of ability.
And don’t worry about pining for Chandler’s “elite defense.” It never existed.
Finally, the “good” PG who shoots more often than any number of more talented offensive players on the floor in spite of his own woeful offensive ability isn’t actually very good at all. I though good results and bad processes weren’t mutually exclusive.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
Sad, too, when the only reporter following the team justifies Brown's ridiculous decisions like this:
And yet the way he’s played of late…gives Brown little reason to use him when Flip Murray is available.
…outside of the fact that Murray’s never seen a shot he won’t take.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
Ok so how do you justify playing D.J.?
I want D.J. to do well. I liked what he showed last year and think he can get back to that. I think he can be our future starting pg.
But what has he shown this season to suggest that? How do you justify giving D.J. big minutes right now?
Umm...you give him minutes because he's going to be a member of the team for the next few years.
There are no other PGs on the roster who can say that. Having players who have, you know, actually garnered NBA experience is important. Unless you want to sign a Murray-esque player and let him start at PG next year since a bad six weeks of basketball is enough to write off Augustin forever.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 6, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
No one has written DJ off forever...
You can argue against that if you want, but you’d be arguing a phantom.
Which logic?
I didn’t say “start the youngest players on the team.” Didn’t say that at any point. I said we should play the young player who (unlike Ajinca) has actually shown the ability to be a capable NBA player, particularly given that he’s the only player on the roster under contract for next year at the position. Or is Diaw’s contract magically going to expire like Tyrus Thomas’ because you say so?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 7, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
??? I said Diaw's contract is expiring?
You really are just making shit up, as usual.
You said Thomas' was.
I’m just trying to figure out how you decided that “my logic” suggested Ajinca should start, given I’ve said he has no place on an NBA roster and did not in any way suggest that he or players like him deserve to play at all, much less start.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 8, 2009 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
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