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Bobcats Defeat Pistons 88-76; Gerald Wallace is Back With a Vengeance

The Bobcats downed the Pistons Tuesday night, 88-76. Those of you able to watch might be able to offer some more detailed analysis, but here are my snap judgments based on the box score:

-- It's fantastic to have Gerald Wallace back. He scored 29 points on 18 attempts from the field and grabbed 12 boards. He can't fall into a trap of thinking he can shoot threes effectively, though. As with most of the other guys on this team, he should only shoot from that distance to show the other team he might and can't rely on it as a real weapon.

-- Stephen Jackson's line looks like Stephen Jackson's line. His scoring was on the poor side of inefficient, with 13 points on 15 attempts and 5 turnovers, but he also grabbed 8 rebounds, a big plus from a guard spot.

-- Nazr Mohammed's scoring jumps out. Dude played only 18 minutes, but he scored 12 points on 9 attempts and grabbed an impressive 9 rebounds in that time.

-- Maybe we need to rethink Boris Diaw. Just as with Raymond Felton, instead of despairing that he doesn't step up on offense and hoping that he changes his stripes, maybe we should be glad his defense has been consistently solid all year. This game, in particular, Charlie Villanueva only managed 4 points on 2-8 shooting in 22 minutes.

-- The Stephen Graham menace continues to plague us.

What else did you see?

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Wallace is looking better with every game he was knocking down 3s outside Jumpers his usual one man breaks and blocking shots. He has to be an Allstar. Raymond did a great job distributing the ball 8 assist most of those leading to wide open 3s that we were knocking down tonight. Felton shot and efficient 50% only taking 8 shots. DJ did a nice job off the bench. He needs to find an inbetween game rather than driving in and getting his shot blocked. A floater or a pullup J would help his game alot. Diaw was trash and Naz played well. I think we played good D tonight Will Bynum was quite he usualy kills us. If we could only do this on the Road.

by Bcat2.0 on Dec 22, 2009 10:15 PM EST reply actions  

Anyone else go to the game?

a) awesome dancing fan
b) you see the roaming pack of LL Cool Js? I laugh every time I see them

Lemonade was a popular drink and it still is.

by WhatAboutBob_cats on Dec 22, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions  

Raymonds numbers look pretty good

Other than the turn overs. Do we have a general consensus that he’s beaten the “Bad Felton” persona?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 22, 2009 11:43 PM EST reply actions  

No.

The turnovers are among the biggest (if not the biggest) problems.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions  

He had 3 steals, so it averages out to only 1 turn over

Wallace TO/ST was 4/2
Diaw 4/0
Jackson 5/0

So according to Procto-logic they were all a bigger problems than Felton. Thanks for confirming that he is one of the strongest elements of this team.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

That's not how it works.

And, again, they’re not POINT GUARDS!

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

This ratio is better for him than Nash and Paul as well

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

It's a fake stat.

He also has a worse shots blocked to haircuts ratio, but that doesn’t make him a better player.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

A fake stat?

what does that mean? They keep stats on assists. They keep stats on steals. It doesn’t take much effort to come up with a ratio. Its pretty simple mathematics. (they don’t keep stats on haircuts so i don’t believe that is very good analogy)

I wonder who the top ten players in the NBA are in this “fake” stat? Assists:Steals, that is. Not Blocks:Haircuts.

by dudemanhey on Dec 23, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

*edit

Steals:Turnovers not Assists:Steals

by dudemanhey on Dec 23, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL! You know someone knows they are wrong

When they change the subject from turnovers and steals to haircuts.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

According to Yahoo Sports

Among Qualified leaders, Raymond Felton (6th) and Gerald Wallace (10th) are both in the top ten in steals per game in the NBA. Among Guards only, Felton is 4th in steals behind only Rondo, Kobe, and Monta Ellis.

Felton also averages LESS turnovers per game than every one of the above mentioned players.

Some other players that Felton averages LESS turnovers than (but MORE steals than): Steve Nash, Lebron James, Deron Williams, Gilbert Arenas, Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker, Rodney Stuckey, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Aaron Brooks, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Durant, Mo Williams, Andre Iguadala, Carmello Anthony, Bobcats teammates Gerald Wallace & Stephen Jackson, four rookie point guards and many others.

by dudemanhey on Dec 23, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Raymond has proven this year that he is more than capable of being a solid starting PG

David has been honest and accurate with his assessments. But guys like Procto will never accept any UNC product.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It's no less ridiculous as a stat.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

"Bad Felton" only exists on a cursory level

Raymond isn’t infallible, but he is a solid NBA starting PG who has shown measurable improvement this year. His shot selection can be maddening at times and he occasionally turns the ball over too much. However, his mistakes are usually mistakes of aggression. He tries to make things happen when some of his teammates take paid leave in the middle of a game. Doing so gets him in trouble and negative skews his stats. I can live with that though.

"Late to bed and late to wake keeps you long on money and short on mistakes".

by Julius Coxswain on Dec 23, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with most of this

Especially about him making mistakes by trying to do too much, or being in a situation to do too much.

However as dudemanhey pointed out above he averages less turnovers than many of the top 1 and 2 guards in the league. And my point was that he does more than compensate for his turnovers by being 6th in the league in steals… of course I was instructed that his steals hold absolutely no value.

The ONLY thing I wish he’d improve on is getting his APG up a bit… But even some of that has to be blamed on being surrounded by low percentage shooters.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Same old same old

Wallace dominates. Jax is inefficient. Nazr is playing like it’s the beginning of the decade and not the end. Felton continues to play better. Graham continues to make me sick to my stomach.

Boris and Jax have got to stop turning the ball over. Every one of them is on a pass that just is not there. Stop trying to squeeze the ball between 3 defenders and kick it out to an open shooter (well, we don’t really have any shooters, but people that will shoot).

Felton had 4 turnovers, but I was impressed with how he played. He wasn’t over-penetrating. Rather than beating his man (which he did with ease) then going all the way to the rim and trying to flip pass around defenders to the shooters, he was methodically penetrating to the free throw line, keeping his man on his hip, then whipping a much easier pass to the corner for the 3. Smart play.

My favorite substitution of the game: DJ is in the game, finally finding a bit of a rhythm. Stephen Graham gets a pass, tries to cross up his man (fails miserably), stumbles towards the paint, then throws a pass to the scorer’s table. Raymond runs to the table to take out… Augustin? Come on…

So good to see DJ playing better. I wonder if Tony Parker runs a summer camp. DJ has no problem getting in the lane but struggles to finish over the bigger men. If he can learn something from Parker’s forays into the paint and shooting around defenders along with his shooting touch (that’s coming back), he could be a major part of our future like we had hoped. Maybe some trade rumors was exactly what he needed.

Again, WHY Stephen Graham? And why do media people ask stupid questions. I wish I was in the post game conference and, instead of asking about how the defense played, I would ask “With Stephen Graham being so ineffective for the whole season, why aren’t his minutes going to young guys who can’t be worse, but could be better?” Just give me a reason. The funniest thing about this is that FSN Detroit showed an interview with Larry Brown during the game and asked him about the injuries Detroit is struggling with. He said he thought it was a blessing in disguise because it gives the rookies a chance to get some minutes. If you think rookies would benefit from minutes… WHY DON’T YOU PLAY THEM!?!?
…End rant

by drapht00 on Dec 23, 2009 12:14 AM EST reply actions  

Felton's turn overs are partly compensated for by consistent steals

He does more to make up for his turnovers by creating opposing turnovers, than anyone else on the team. This season there is only a .5 difference in his TO s(2.5) to STs(2.0). Wallace 1.0, Jack 1.6, Diaw 1.5

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

For the record...

Billups 1.2, Chris Paul .7, Nash 3.3! Felton is very solid in this aspect.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a cute arbitrary stat you've created.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Iverson fans would love that stat. Too bad lots of steals don’t always equal effective defense.

by ClipCat on Dec 23, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I hear Gerald's doing ok even though he's not getting steals like he used to.

From the mouth of Larry Brown, no less.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It's made up yes... but valid unless you think creating turnovers is not important

Point being that this team definitely is turning the ball over WAY too much. However Felton works just as hard if not harder than anyone to reverse that.

Plus you said all that mattered was assists. Now he get’s 8 and you have yet to give him credit. The guy doesn’t go to UNC anymore Proc, get over it!

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait...

gambling for steals implies he’s working hard not to turn it over? Wow.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You know very well my point is true

Which is why you are trying so hard to twist it, bring up haircuts ratios and ignore the UNC-connection truth!

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Haircuts are no less relevant to the argument than the mystery stat you made up.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

They very much are different. Quit being ridiculous.

They keep stats for Assists, Steals & Turnovers. But not haircuts.

Yahoo Sports doesn’t even keep stats on Assists:TO. Is that some made up stat too?

by dudemanhey on Dec 23, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but...

NBA.com

And SI

And CBSSports

Care to find me a site that lists your vaunted Steals:TO?

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Link fail.

NBA.com

Just because Yahoo is a search engine with second-rate sports coverage doesn’t mean it’s not a real stat, unlike your fantasy number.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you insinuating that Steals and Turnovers are unimportant?

This thread began up top with you saying that turnovers were an important issue. Now that the stats reveal Felton’s turnover numbers are pretty good actually when you compare them to other starting guards in the NBA, turnovers aren’t important anymore.

And steals are not important either? Felton being among the league leaders in steals is not impressive to you in the least? A steal is pretty much the opposite of a turnover. In fact it is a negative turnover considering that it creates a possession for your team and takes one away from the other. It’s like giveaway/takeaway in football. As a supposed “stat guy” you should really like that.

by dudemanhey on Dec 23, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

No, he's insinuating that anything Felton does well is unimportant

Whatever he says is important, he’ll change it as soon as Felton does it. And if Felton was a Duke product he’d be exactly the opposite.

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure. That's why I've been such an advocate of guys like DeMarcus Nelson, Josh McRoberts, and Corey Maggette.

…except not.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

They are a problem game-to-game.

If you have watched this team and believe Felton has kicked his habit of bad turnovers and bad decisions at key time, you’re crazy.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

You people are ridiculous

These threads always get mired in muck because this Felton debate always emerges.
The dude’s not great, but he’s decent. Sure he’s not a Billups or a CP3, but he’s not supposed to be nor ever will be, so stop expecting him to become one. Give the man credit for playing pretty well lately, especially since DJ’s been in a funk (which he may be emerging out of!).

THE REAL problem is S. Graham and people like Henderson not playing, in my sincerest and humblest opinion.

by CharginChuck on Dec 23, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

He wants to be paid like Billups.

Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE

by MichaelProcton on Dec 23, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

REC!

Felton is playing well
Augustin is playing better than he was

I just burned up all the bandwidth necessary for this entire debate.

Maybe we should just set up a “DukiesandHeelsfight_it_out.com” site where such discussions can be blissfully continued until the end of time.

by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 23, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Bury Graham and play Henderson…great talent wasting away on the bench

by andrewlail76 on Dec 23, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

All I have to say is DNP for Henderson and 5 mins for Brown.

Not good.

Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.

by Aisander D on Dec 23, 2009 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

This is my one knock on LB

I think the guy is a great coach… After the game, Rip Hamilton said to reporters that he thought he was the best coach ever. And I know they wish he was still there. But come on… What’s he got to lose by giving Henderson more minutes?

on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city

by southtunnel on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a problem

I have a feeling it will come back to haunt the bobcats in the future

Get off your bandwagon

by gforce3 on Dec 23, 2009 2:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

tyson's play

two of Jack’s turnovers were off of tyson playing either gator arms or the patented no-look-catch to imperfection The box score saying tyson only had one turnover is so incredibly misleading. I would love to see a dalembert for chandler and law trade, or perhaps even a bigger brand-dalembert for chandler-law-diaw-mohammed trade, though I would greatly lament losing mohammed.

Allowing ben wallace to get insane open looks multiple times is also reprehensible on defense, his supposed calling card.

by Jew Unit on Dec 23, 2009 12:48 AM EST reply actions  

A few observations

DJ definitely seems to be regaining his touch. His first stint on the floor he nailed a 3 pointer and then moments later scored again. What was noticable though, was that he took both shots with confidence as if he knew they were going in before he released them. He didn’t look nervous or tentative at all. Let’s hope this is indeed a return to form and he doesn’t get frustrated and take forward steps only to stumble back. Lord knows we need him.

Wallace and Jackson produced 24 of the first 32 Bobcats points. NOT good. In the early going, Graham had a nice mismatch in the low post against one of Detroit’s guards and his shot got blocked. It was an ugly thing and his play only got worse from there. Once Nazr settled into the game and started producing along with DJ the Dynamic Duo were able to take a break. At one point LB was even able to sit Wallace and replace him with Jackson with minimal danger of the lead disappearing.

Turnovers continue to tell the tale for the Bobcats. They had 7 in the first quarter and Detroit was able to compete. They had none in the 2nd and pulled away never to be seriously threatened again.

Once again, LB tossed Acie Law in during the closing moments and this time he picked up a pair at the free throw line for his first points as a Bobcat. Maybe this is Brown’s way of showcasing Law to the league to increase his value in a trade. :-)

Our situation is now officially dire. Unless we get someone that can do some serious damage at the PF spot, our season is going to end the moment Wallace or Jackson get hurt and defenses know to punish these two men each and every game.

Felton, with his two load-bearing partners back in action, was able to settle into the real point guard role instead of being constantly pressured to be the primary scorer and it showed in his healthy assist tally.

We’re so damned close. We’re just one player away from being able to terrorize most of the Eastern Conference with our starting lineup and if our bench (I’m talking Nazr Deej and Brown) can get the minutes to play to their potential the Bobcats can be solid contenders in the East. Most significant to me though, was listening to the announcers from Detroit comment on the Bobcats. My favorite (and in my opinion most accurate) comment:

“This team may be a mess on the road, but when you come into their house you have no choice but to respect what they can do.” (made midway through the 4th quarter after the Pistons closed to 10 only to get shut down from that point forward.)

by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 23, 2009 1:01 AM EST reply actions  

Wallace and Jackson produced 24 of the first 32 Bobcats points. NOT good.

I know the Cats need another consistent scoring option. But considering this game was immediately following the Knicks game where Jax played only 1 qtr and was Wallace out entirely, i have no problems at all with the the team’s two best players…you know…playing the best.

Now if they regularly scored 75% of the Bobcats’ points, then it might be more worrisome. But to have your team’s two studs come out firing on all cylinders to start the game — i think that is a good thing.

by dudemanhey on Dec 23, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong dudeman

I was greatly relieved to see them both come back strong. But Jackson’s back problem didn’t look a whole lot better and if the Christmas break doesn’t give him adequate healing time, we’re in some trouble.

The scary part of it for me was that it seemed that much of the team saw them in action and went right back to the half-assed effort that made Jax N Crash complain in the first place.

I do think it’s funny that the moment those two men started logging injury time two things happened; the entire Bobcats fanbase began to freak and Chandler started talking about his own ailments only to have the entire Bobcats fanbase shrug collective shoulders in apathy.

by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 23, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

was pretty ticked

that the game wasn’t on tv here in Charlotte. Was sooooooo close to getting cheap tickets and going…now I wish I had. Walked into a x-mas bonus at work. would have been so worth it.

"ANOTHER Iowa running back down!"-any sports caster

by HAWKEYESBABY on Dec 23, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions  

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