Licking Wounds After A Galling Defeat
One of the basic tenets here at Rufus on Fire is that the pessimistic truth is usually more valuable than the happy lie. More subtly, the pessimistic outlook based on a more complete assessment of facts is usually more valuable than the happy outlook based on a few positive indicators gleaned from among the many negative.
What that means for the Bobcats is that even though they'd lost seven games in a row and even though they'd won four games in a row, that doesn't necessarily change the total assessment of their abilities. Recent performance matters, and it should be weighted more heavily than performance from long ago, but only so much. When guys have established over the course of their careers who they are, it takes a lot to prove that they've materially changed their talent levels and that we're not just in the midst of a hot streak.
Boris Diaw is a great example of this. Despite his excellent run right after coming to Charlotte via trade, he settled into his established level of performance and has been there, with minor ups and downs, ever since. He changed his style significantly last season, but the results were the same on an individual level. Perhaps that change helped others raise their games, but I'm not so sure we can tease that conclusion out of the actual results the team generated.
So, for now, we lick our wounds after a particularly galling defeat and go on thinking about the Bobcats. I think I overestimated them in my preseason previews, but the addition of Stephen Jackson brings them back to the talent level they had for much of last year, which makes them, roughly, a 32-37 win team. What evidence have we seen to tell us any different?
BULLET POINTS BECAUSE THEY'RE QUICK LIKE BULLETS
- They went down by more than twenty with Gerald Wallace out of the game, yet played only -3 when Gerald was in. Thin-slicing, I know, but I'll find anything to confirm my faith in Gerald.
- Has Good Felton finally overtaken Bad Felton? (Give it twenty more games. Give or take.)
- Is anyone else tired of Larry Brown blaming lack of effort? Again, you're going to look bad at times against good teams. It's probably not effort, but a lack of skill that was exploited. Don't act like the players would be the greatest team on earth if only they'd play exactly like you tell them to. That's what video games are for.
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Agreed on the last bullet point.
Yeah seriously… sure lack of effort may come into play from time to time, but it’s just not a legit fallback.
Larry Brown should just have said, “Boston is the better, more skilled team. That’s why they won.” And call the press conference a wrap.
When it comes down to it, Boston is the better team (as are the Cavs of course) and 9 times out of 10, Boston would win. You can’t ignore the skill deferential. That doesn’t mean we can’t win against such teams (Cavs), it’s just not going to happen often.
I wish LB would blame....
rotation mismanagement. Stephen Graham and Flip Murray got lots of useless minutes last night.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
I understand what you mean by honest pessimism...
though a lot of the pessimistic comments that I read are less accurate than the blind optimists.
We can all agree that last night was a bad loss. What it says about the future is unfortunately not that much. We’ve seen the team suck it up and we’ve seen the team play great. No matter what happens, there’s going to be some moron saying “I told you so” after it happens.
It works both ways. EG: You can’t trash Chandler completely without acknowledging that the man has built a long career on defense and cleanup points. As bad as he’s been this year, and as troubling as the injury history is, is this the year he falls off the cliff?
by David A. Arnott on Dec 2, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
You forgot one descriptor for Chandler's career:
mediocre.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 3, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
I dont feel like we have any wounds to lick.
We lost one game to a championship contender. Did anyone really expect us to beat Boston and Cleveland in a week? Yeah, without Wallace, out team is terrible. We saw that last year when he got elbowed by Bynum and was out for what seemed like forever. Most other teams are terrible when they lose their best player too. Obvious Examples: Cleveland and New Orleans. I feel like if Boston lost Paul peirce, theyd be screwed also. You and the pessimists rely too heavily on your stats and facts. When this team does make the playoffs, you are gonna be blind-sided. Anyone who watches basketball and understands basketball can see that the Bobcats are on the verge of being a good team. Not a great team but definitely a playoff team. I am calling it. THE CATS WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR.
Don't know what you mean about teams being worse without their best player...
But lets take a look at the teams you mention and their most recent performances without their top player:
NO w/ Chris Paul this year: 3-7 (.300)
NO w/o Chris Paul this year: 4-4 (.500)
LeBron James has missed only two single games over the last two years, and his team lost both of them.
Paul Pierce has missed just three single games over the last three years, and his team won each of them.
So it’s not exactly looking like those teams fall apart. I understand your reasoning, but you might want to, you know, have some facts to back your opinions up.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 3, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
My bad
I forgot to read Michael Procton’s rules and regulations for posting my opinion on Rufus on Fire. I’ll be sure to include some stats next time so you can then bend your own statistics to tell me I’m wrong.
You are arguing New Orleans is better without Chris Paul. Enough said.
Wrong.
I’m arguing against YOUR STATEMENT!
Most other teams are terrible when they lose their best player too. Obvious Examples: Cleveland and New Orleans.
Now, I’m not a doctor, but last I checked, .500 ball isn’t “terrible” by any means. Particularly when they’re well under that with with him on the court.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 4, 2009 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
The same person who says a 4 game win streak in a week means nothing wants to use two weeks worth of stats to prove a point. Make up your mind. Oh, I see. As long as its to prove a point against the Bobcats, you can use such a small sample size. I’m learning more and more about how to write intelligent comments on here. Just because you know how to use bold, caps, and highlight, and cut and paste doesnt mean you prove your point.
You see why I’m not big on stats. You can make them say whatever you want.
I never said it meant nothing.
I said it didn’t mean we were going to win 60 games and make it to the NBA Finals.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 4, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
No one else on this website said that either.
You actually were the only person who used the words “win 60 games and make it to the NBA finals.” Everyone else was just enjoying the wins. Thats all. Then you come in and start instigating with diehard bobcat fans. You ask us to argue with logic but you dont use logic and reason. You just bait, instigate, use your own loose translanslation of our comments, or take one word we say to use it against us. Those are not good tactics for having a logical and reasonable conversation. Those are tactics to piss other people off. You are the Terrell Owens and Allen Iverson of Rufus on FIre. You create controversy just for your satisfaction. You, you, you. You have an argument with a different person every week. There has never been an argument on this website that doesnt involve you. That makes the problem YOU.
I'm "instigating?"
Please. I use this forum to discuss the Bobcats, a team I’m a fan of. You and your delusional “diehard” set can get your panties all in a twist if you want if somebody suggests that improvement from a 35-win team does not automatically mean that we’re among the conference elite if you want, but I’ll stay over here in realitytown.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 4, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Reality Town
With the population of one, its lone habitant enjoys the luxury of making up things that other people do not say to start an argument.
You say our view about the Bobcats is delusional but you continue to have delusions about your imaginary adversaries comments on Rufus on Fire.
You and the pessimists rely too heavily on your stats and facts.
Yeah, what idiot bases their argument on facts? That’s just silly. :)
by jj24 on Dec 2, 2009 4:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
When stats and facts are all you base your opinions on, you are stuck in the past. I have faith in my team and its future and I believe the future is now.
I’m not trying to get into a verbal scrum.
However, basing an argument on stats and facts isn’t living in the past, it’s being scientific. Some people are “Men of Science”, others are “Men of Faith.” Neither is necessarily right or wrong.
If there ever was one thing that everyone could have faith in, it should be their team. I just dont understand how this is supposed to be a blog for fans by fans and half the people on here don’t believe in their team. Some don’t even pretend to support the team. I’m fairly new to this blog and it really surprised me when I started reading the things some of you say. My close friends and I love the Bobcats and they’ve been the only Bobcat fans Ive known for years. Ive really enjoyed the ups and downs and hopes of every season with them. Now, I moved to Mexico and I’m still trying to keep up with the Bobcats and enjoy the comradery of other Bobcats fans through this website. It seems to me like a lot of you dont want to enjoy your team. You guys want to study statistics of five losing seasons and then tell me, “scientifically the Bobcats will suck forever.” Seeing Gerald Wallace put up 31 back to back last week and his rebonding this year has been f’n awesome. Seeing Jackson come in and help our team’s offense and Felton have his ups and downs this season, is great entertainment. Just enjoy the Bobcats. Thats all I ask.
I don't base my beliefs about this team's chance for success on what they've done in the past.
I base it on having watched them. The past is only reason for pessimism of the future (i.e. making smart trades, FA acquisitions, and draft choices), not the pessimism.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 3, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
An optimist sees the donut
The pessimist sees the hole.
I’m a realist. I just eat the thing and look for something to drink.
At the beginning of the season I evaluated the presence of Chandler and the absence of Okafor and cringed. I think most of us did. I read all the NBA previews and felt that they were unduly critical of the Cats chances, but not by much. The most honest assessment I read (and I wish I could recall where it was, maybe ESPN the Magazine) said that the Bobcats had improved in the off-season but the rest of their division had improved even more. I agreed with that evaluation and expected a 25 win season barring roster changes or Gerald Henderson breaking out as a rook sensation.
I also knew LB’s history and sat back expecting there to be a lot of shuffling and dealing in the first half of the season.
Where I differ from most of you is that I’ve been rooting for Bob Johnson since day one. I accepted that this was a completely new world for him and that he’d make some mistakes. When Jordan bought his way into the team I worried about what he’d done with the Wizards and felt he was, like Kevin McHale, a master at knowing what to do when wearing a uniform who had delusions of grandeur about skills that required wearing a three-piece-suit. Jordan seems to have learned a few things and he’s a better general manager than he used to be. It wasn’t like the bar was set very high in order to achieve that though.
One of the axioms of good management is that you cannot succeed unless you surround yourself with solid advisors AND listen to what they tell you. It’s that last part where most managers falter. Ego tends to get in the way and ego has been Jordan’s Achilles heel for well over a decade now.
I believe he’s learned his lesson to an extent however. In came Larry Brown and both Johnson and Jordan have heeded his advice with increasing regularity. This latest trade with Golden State was brilliant. Fact interpretation is subjective. Many view this great trade as a fluke. (Like the old saw says, even a broken watch gets it right twice a day.)
I think it represents improvement in the decision making skills of the Front Office.
I don’t think this team is finished with the wheeling and dealing yet. We’ll know if the savvy of the suits has indeed improved when we see how the next couple of moves pan out.
I don’t believe the Bobcats are destined for the Conference Finals this year – as I said, I am a realist. But in evaluating what we have right now I do believe we have a playoff team with the potential to jump a little bit higher than the 8 seed. At present, our biggest problem is with Chandler. He is tying up the most money while providing the least overall production. Looking at the numbers from before the deal, wise heads knew this would be the result. I am of the opinion that the Bobcats FO were smart enough to know what they were getting into and viewed it as a step in a larger plan. Unfortunately, I am also of the opinion that the FO was NOT smart enough to execute the next stage of that plan.
This team isn’t going to improve until the Chandler situation is changed. Even assuming he bucks his career trends and stays healthy while improving his stats by 10% (a reasonable possibility) he isn’t going to be enough to drive the team to new heights. We’re stuck unless we work out a way to get him off the team. He is not now, nor will he ever be, a premier baller. I’m thrilled to death that he’s improved of late and I’ve said so in this forum. The problem is that you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. (yeesh, I’ve come down with cliche-itis!)
The Cats WILL make the playoffs this year barring injury. The current roster can pull that much off. But that’s ALL they’ll do. Procton hit the nail on the head when he said that all that will do is cost us our draft pick next season and I hit it squarely as well when I said a quick trip to the playoffs wouldn’t be enough to be considered a success. As I see it, the Cats have no choice. They HAVE to find some trades. They will either free up money and kill our chances for this season, or they will improve the team to the point that we’ll advance further into the playoffs and become a legitimate threat in the league for a brief season or two before starting the rebuild all over again. I don’t think the direction in either case will be accidental. The powers that be will either pull a Nicks/Nets maneuver and tank the season in the hope of opening up future success, or they’ll build us into a “close but no cigar” team like the Pacers have been so frequently. But either way, I believe they’ll do it on purpose, not because of luck or incompetency.
Right now we have a very good coach and a fair basketball team. At the very least they hold our attention wondering what’s going to happen next. I enjoy that quite a bit. I’m a Bobcats fan and that isn’t going to change.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Only difference of opinion I might have on this— and this is purely a matter of personal preference rather than sage basketball wisdom— is that I would consider any trip to the playoffs a success. True, if such an outcome has ramifications that end up constraining our ability to do anything beyond that in the future— and it may well do that as both you and Procton have suggested— it might not be in the long-term interests of the front-office or the more patient fans amongst us to let it play out this way. However, I’m ok with a quick hit of joy at the end of this season if we can somehow beg. borrow, or steal our way into it. Just appearing in the playoffs, even if they get killed, would be a joyous occasion in my household. Next year can take care of itself and probably will, one way or another.
Considering that they seem to have embarked upon the free-wheeling trade-trade-trade approach to building a roster, and that thus far it’s improved the team at least marginally (and perhaps significantly moreso if a few breaks go our way,) perhaps they can deal back into a decent pick as part of a package at some point in the season. Chances are they aren’t going to get anybody great at #15/16 anyhow. I just posted a hostile rant directed at that obnoxious Celtics fan over in the other thread, a premise of which was Ainge’s undeserved instant good fortune in fleecing his complicit buddy McHale, an implication of which might be that in the NBA all that may really be necessary to suddenly turn things around overnight is that one big lopsided score in the trade mart, and because of the distortions/contortions the cap produces for teams’ front offices, there’s never a shortage of willing trade suckers (excuse me… partners) to help out a friend in need. And perhaps this may end up being Larry Brown’s most valuable attribute to the organization— he’s got plenty of of friends and disciples who will do him a favor when he needs it… so maybe let’s let the chips fall where they may in regard to that draft pick next year. They’re surely not going to tank intentionally; they’re not nearly bad enough at this stage to get away with that. So they might as well go for it. And keep trading up. What the hell? It’s not like they’d be risking a meaningful legacy if it doesn’t work…
If we're picking at 15/16...
We’ve made the playoffs. #14 is the last lotto pick.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 3, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

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