Spurs Edge Bobcats 104-85
by David A. Arnott on Dec 11, 2009 11:18 PM EST
82 comments
The Bobcats were down twenty, then stormed back in the third quarter to within one, then couldn't keep up in the fourth quarter, falling behind again, losing to the San Antonio Spurs 104-85.
We'll have more reaction in the morning, but for now, consider this your open thread to post highlights and lowlights from the game.
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Highlights
-Derrik Brown. DB consistently makes good use of his minutes and is earning minutes more consistently. In 22 minutes tonight his line was 7 pts 2 (off) rebounds 1 steal on 3-7 shooting. What those numbers don’t show is that he was a pivotal player in the 3rd qtr Bobcats run that shaved the once 20+ pt deficit disappear. Nor does is mention the nasty fast break throw down dunk Brown had during that run. Highlight reel dunks are becoming common place for DB.
- Raymond Felton. Felton had yet another steady performance. 8 points on 4-7 FG, 2 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 steals, 3 TO’s is not impressive. But the difference between the Bobcats when Raymond is on the court vs on the bench is striking. After that 3rd qtr run, LB rested Felton to start the 4th as usual. And also as usual, Augustin’s horrible play stood out. Before Felton returned, the game was basically out of reach.
-The 3rd qtr run. Though the ‘Cats were unable to seal the deal and finish strong in the 4th quarter for the win, the effort and toughness that the team showed to erase such a large 2nd half deficit in such a short time span should give Bobcat nation encouragement. 17 to 1 to end the 3rd! The fact that the run was done against a perennial NBA contender on the road was even more impressive and should help provide confidence in the team’s ability to be competitive in even the most daunting situations.
- Gerald Wallace- Despite logging a season low (?) in rebounds, 6, Wallace had 18 points on 6 of 9 FGs and often commanded double teams from the Spurs defenders.
Really? Felton's play was a highlight?
I think you’re confusing the word “steady” with “mediocre.” Aside from the fact that he did absolutely nothing on the offensive end all night, he also let Tony Parker school him from tip to horn.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
57 FG%, 5 assists, and leading both teams in steals is VERY "steady"
Like Dude said, the difference of him being on or off the court is the difference in us making a run, or falling behind. It is blatantly obvious to anyone who isn’t leading an anti-UNC campaign, that Augustin cannot even begin to manage the game like Felton.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
An anti UNC campaign?
Geez, somebody’s got their persecution complex turned way up.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Re Tony Parker
Parker had 9 points (3-7 shooting) and 7 turnovers. Time to give credit where credit is due.
Lol, but he schooled Felton
Proc will say anything to make Ray look bad
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
How many of Parkers points came when Augustin was playing? At least 3
Another point about Felton: He only had 5 assists last night. But i can think of at least three missed shots in the 2nd half that would/should have been assists for Felton if the ’Cats had made open baskets. Parker had 10 assists. How many assists would Felton have had if the Bobcats had shot 10 of 17 from 3???
How many shots would the Bobcats have made from 3 if Felton made better passes?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
0, because Jacksons the only one that takes 3s when he's not open
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Oh, good call.
So no Bobcat has at any point taken a three-pointer when contested at all save for one. Love that logic.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Just not the case
Diaw missed two wide open 3’s that would/should have been Felton assists.
The scenario that you are describing just is not the case. Did you even watch the game? Apparently not..
Go Mountaineers!
...back to Boone with their tails between their legs.
But hey, being the 112th-best football program in the country isn’t so bad, I guess.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing to be ashamed about heading back to Boone
The best football program in NC.
SO close. Armanti did his job. Too many dropped passes including one on the last play in the end zone that would have sent it to overtime! Hell of a career by Edwards. His football days are not finished.
now GO Bobcats!
Funny...
I’d think there are five or so schools that’d disagree. You know, the ones that play 10+ games every year against the best competition in the nation?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
You're up late Procto...
don’t you have an “Assholes Anonymous” meeting in the morning?
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Duke football can't even beat Div I AA oponents
UNC had ASU scheduled in 2010 but payed APP money to take them off (scared). Wake Forest used to play ASU every year in Winston-Salem, but Wake was tired of getting beat by an “inferior” opponent. Respect to ECU’s AD Terry Holland for not being afraid of the Mountaineers. The C-USA champs almost got beat in Greenville by the FCS powerhouse ASU – and Appalachian was WITHOUT Walter Payton Award winner Armanti Edwards.
You’re so pathetic, Procto. You hate your favorite NBA team and are always excited to see them lose. And you stay up late on a Saturday night just to talk shit about the best college football program in the state because you love to be a contrarian internet asshole so much. You never fail in making me glad that i am me, and NOT you.
Neither can App, apparently.
If they were so dominant against the junior league, they’d never lose.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 13, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
That's because App St. is scared to join the top division.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 13, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
This is a terrible argument....
all the way around.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
A few observations
This was a good effort. There are a few things that are common knowledge in the NBA. One of them is that a decent team that falls behind will usually make one or more runs to close the gap. Another is that the bigger the lead and the harder the lagging team has to work go “get back in it” the worse the odds on them having enough gas in the tank to finish it off for the win.
Tonight the Cats worked hard and flat out dominated the Spurs in the third quarter and climbed back from over 20 points down. It was impressive and a joy to watch as I’m sure many of us, myself included, had already decided that the blowout was on and it was only going to get uglier as the minutes wore on. Sadly, the second part of my first paragraph also came to bear. The gang just didn’t have enough energy left to be able to hang tough against a very good team once they DID make it exciting. This was a good loss, if such a thing is possible. While this has never been a team to give up, there was a time not long ago when the club simply lacked the capacity to mount a run like they did this evening.
We’re always quick to revel in the numbers when one of our own contains a supposedly better player. Well, Felton and Wallace got contained tonight and what it meant was that Wallace’s numbers were merely damned good instead of incredible and Felton’s stats were reduced to mediocre instead of the numbers of an emerging star. Considering that it happened on the road against a team many think will be duking it out (or am I supposed to call it chapel hilling it out?) with the Lakers for the Western Conference crown, I’m not going to cry over it.
What does worry me is that there were several times the Bobcats abandoned their game plan. In the first half it seemed to me we broke down and started playing more of a running game taken right out of the Spurs gameplan, digging us the hole in the first place. Then when it fell apart in the 4th we resorted to the old habit of quick-fire jumpers instead of the set picks and screen plays that are our bread and butter. It was a regression we can’t afford to allow to become habit forming.
Finally, and I don’t think I’ve mentioned this in prior games because it’s used too often as an excuse, but am I the only person that thought the refs were calling the game incredibly tight and uneven tonight? I expect off the chart fouls from Chandler, but even a couple of the calls against him seemed to be things that don’t get whistled most other nights. Are they just getting hypersensitive because of all the accusations and media attention?
It fell apart in the 4th because we put Graham and Augustin in
Felton, Jackson, Wallace and Brown had great chemistry in the 3rd… playing good defense and moving the ball well. But everything stopped when Augustin went in. He can’t penetrate like Felton, or defend like Felton, and he get’s rattled at the first sight of a double team. All he ever does is take the ball to the top of the key, hand it off to somebody else and wait for an open shot.
I know he played better than this last year. But while we’re waiting for him to get out of his slump, he’s losing games for us.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Augustin's miles ahead of Felton as a dribble-drive penetrator.
Keep up your “Felton as franchise savior” talk if you must, but don’t make things up.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Well it'd be nice if he'd actually do it in a game then
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I'm boarding the more Henderson minutes train
He should be the first SG off the bench. Graham, Murray and Augustin have done nothing to show that they can consistently perform better at that position.
I thought LB was sincerely trying to get him more minutes, but sometimes it seems like he completely forgets about him. You see Gerald antsy pacing back and forth, whenever they show the bench. I feel bad for the guy.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Comparing Felton to Parker
Both had similar minutes.
Felton had a higher FG%
Felton had 4 steals to to Parkers 1
Felton had 3 TOs, but Parker had 7!
Parker doubled Feltons assists with 10, to Raymonds 5
Raymond obviously had the better game, despite Parking lighting up the assists column. Half of them were to Duncan who we have no answer, and 3Pts, which they shot almost 60% from, to our 25%. Obviously having a real post player and high percentage shooters helps your stats. Not to mention Parker committed 7 TOs trying to get those assists. With our shortage of scorers, I’ll take the guy with the higher FG%, steals and fewer TOs.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Didn't you watch the game?
Augustin obviously had a better game than Felton and Parker put together… Just ask MP or Arnott!
Augustin’s the rising star, a future HOF and Felton’s a washed up vet, who will never be a great offensive player because of his awful assists and very mediocre .5+ fg% he’s been putting up lately. In fact, he just should stop shooting all together ‘cause he makes bad decisions with the ball, I mean he turned down a 40mil contract? Oh we’re so trading him, maybe to the 76er for Primoz Brezec.
Better passes lead to better shots. Better shots lead to more made shots.
It’s not a coincidence their team shot better. And if you’re really going to laud Felton’s fantastic shooting night when he was unable to get free to the tune of more than 9 shots, who cares? Would a 3-4 night from Chandler make him an All-Star in waiting?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody said anything about Felton being an All-Star
I don’t think he’ll ever be quite at that level. However that you start refuting it for no reason suggests that you think he could be, but don’t want him to be. Everyone knows that this team lacks shooters… so let’s save this argument for when we have a standard to judge by.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Nope.
Simply using hyperbole to try and point out how ridiculous it is to laud Felton’s awesome shooting night on a whopping nine shots.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Once again nobody said it was stellar, just better than Parker
Again, that’s you just taking jabs at Felton, without much to jab at.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
Tyson Chandler 8 turnovers 8 We cant expect to beat good teams while turning the Ball over this much Diaw has to play well for us to win on the road Early foul trouble killed us in this one Diaw, and Chanler as usual Naz had to play early and was abused on Defense. Why is it that everyone but Larry Brown knows that Graham sould not be playing?
as for the drop off from starting PG to Backup its Huge. were not talking a couple of points plus minus were talking about a huge disperity Felton -1 Augustin -16 this isnt a one game thing the differential has been even bigger. Stats aside anyone can see when the game turns. We need a backup PG why not at least see what Law can give us.
Hard to keep the team in the game singlehandedly.
Felton gets to play with the starters. Augustin does not. +/- looks much better when the players aroudn you don’t suck.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
This argument just isn't true
When Augustin went in the 2nd Quarter he was playing with Diaw, Wallace and Jackson. A few minutes later Murray came in for Jackson, and a few after that Jackson for Wallace. In the 4th when he came in he was with Brown/Diaw, Wallace and Jackson again.
The only starter he was not in with was Felton… So your argument just proves that we suck when Felton is not playing. I agree!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
So Murray, Diaw, Wallace, and Brown are as good as Jackson, Wallace, Diaw, and Chandler? Please.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly, considering Chandler was in another world
But Augustin only played with that combo briefly, as did Felton. LB rotates players and almost always keeps 2-3 starters in. Wallace & Jackson are both averaging over 40 minutes.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
truth is the bobcats dont have the talent to keep up with teams like the spurs. they out played them in the third quarter because they turned up the intensity but the officiating was equally horrible for both teams, I see complaints about the bobcats turnovers, but the spurs had 9 more! and still beat you guys by 20, I think the cats had 30 points off spurs turnovers, thats a third of the points they put up. If you cut that number in half the bobcats would have lost by 30. Which is about what would have taken place if you throw out the 3rd quarter. It all boils down to the bobcats are short on talent (just look at the difference in bench production) and really lacking an effective offensive game.
uhm yeah finn ball
We have two holes on the team and they are glaring. Our first priority is a solid power forward. Our second is a backup point guard that will be able to take over the starter slot if we’re unable to sign Felton to a new contract by the end of the season. I expect the first problem will be acted upon before Jan 20. Notice I didn’t say “solved.” We may bring in just what the doctor ordered or make another boneheaded trade move – the record of the Front Office is a bit sketchy there.
But Rome wasn’t built in a day and an NBA expansion team can barely be built in a decade.
The excitement to be found in this season’s Bobcats team is in the knowledge that we have flashes of brilliance and are partway to being a very good ball club. Previous management mistakes are making it difficult to achieve the next level, but the progress of the players – and even moreso the drive and heart that some of them show each night – are things we can AND DO take pride in.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 12, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
"An expansion team can barely be built in a decade?"
Please. The Heat made the playoffs five of their first ten years (including a Conference Finals appearance), the Raptors did it three, and the Hornets did it four (two second round appearances.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't accept that.
I’m talking about a real team, not a flash in the pan that quickly fades back. That takes your three examples and reduces it to one. Apart from Miami, no expansion team has built itself into a consistent threat in short order.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 12, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
the Bobcats have only existed for 5 years
It’s a little premature to start a comparison based on an expansion team’s first 10 years. The Bobcats could still easily make the playoffs 5 of their first 10 years!
Oh and by the way
We just love it when fans of other teams come by to poach and troll. Thanks for the drive-by gloating. It truly shows the level of class and style we’ve come to expect from Spurs fans.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 12, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I’m sorry man, my post wasn’t supposed to come across as a gloat. I’m not impressed by the way the spurs are playing either, and not proud enough to come in here and rub it in. Truth is I am embarrassed by our record and the way we have giving games away like we almost did again. I just thought I would put in a different perspective to last nights game. I never intended to make any instigating statement. My sincerest of apologies.
I didn't think you were gloating
Sometimes the truth is hard to take. The Bobcats aren’t a deep team. Sometimes it’s just difficult to hear that from a fan of a team that just beat you. San Antonio is the kind of franchise Charlotteans would love the Bobcats to emulate.
Why aren’t the Spurs winning at the rate they normally would? Is it a case of a veteran team saving their energy for the playoffs? I really thought that with the addition of RJ, McDyess and Blair, the Spurs would be challenging for #1 in the West. I’m still bitter the Bobcats didn’t land a backup PF – Blair and McDyess were at the top of my list last off-season.
why aren’t the spurs winning so much? from what I have seen from the last 4 games the trend seems consistent. They play really solid for a half or 3 quarters of a game but aren’t consistent enough yet to put the games away they should be winning. In the last 4 games they have built nice leads on everyone but some how either loose focus or get out of sync somewhere along the way and let the other team climb right back in it. We have lost our share of games due to too many mental errors, turnovers mostly and poor defensive decision making, poor rotations, etc. Much of it might be the fact that the team has 7 new guys on the roster this year, and they haven’t yet the experience of playing together, other times they just look soft and unwilling to grit their teeth and fight through those poor stretches. It’s been disappointing to watch some of there play because really they have put together some brilliant stretches of basketball, the potential for this team seems to be very high, they just haven’t been able to put together a consistent 48 minutes very often. Too old? Na, Duncan is one of the oldest guys out there and look at the year he is having. I am really impressed with his play, he has kept the team on his shoulders for sure while everyone else has struggled. The spurs are running and scoring more this year than they have in a long time. The injuries have played a small part this year as well, but we have done a great job dealing with those I think. I think for sure the bobcats can keep up with the spurs, I never said they couldn’t, but they can’t do it consistently enough, the talent isn’t there. But this is the NBA, any team can beat another team on any given night. I think that at this given point in time though the spurs are going to beat the bobcats more often than not if for no other reason than the talent level we have is higher. Sure you guys can beat us, sure you can beat any team in the league. Can you make the playoffs and beat another team in a 7 game series? I don’t think you can yet. It’s possible sure, just not likely. I dig Gerald Wallace by the way. And would really like to see you guys getting more out of Tyson Chandler because I remember he always gave the spurs problems when he was with the Hornets
by finn ball on Dec 12, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Spurs will be there
when it counts. They always tend to come on strong as it gets close to playoff time. I can’t picture Duncan as “old.” He still plays like a man with a lot of years left in his legs.
You also made a point I’ve made several times about the Bobcats. If this team doesn’t finish in the top 6 seeds in the Eastern Conference we’re toast because we can’t win a series against any of the likely top tier teams unless we improve through trades. My assessment is that they have a chance to make it to the second round but only if they place well enough to avoid teams like Boston and Cleveland in the opening series. From Atlanta on down we have a fighting chance.
I believe the Bobcats can make it to the 6 seed but not so much because of their improvements as a team but more because overall the Eastern Conference teams aren’t playing as well as they look on paper.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 12, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I apologize as well
We do get people (especially from Celtics blogs) that come by and dump on the Cats and I took you “short on talent” comment and a couple of others I read it in that spirit.
Some of your comments are indeed spot-on. But a lot of media experts expected the Cats to have a pitiful season and Charlotte gets a lot of undeserved mocking. Wallace has emerged as a genuine AllStar by any standard this year and until a week ago received almost no notice for it outside of the Carolinas. We do not have a championship caliber team by any stretch. But the team is quite a bit more capable than they are given credit for.
It’s pretty easy to misread comments and apparently I misread yours. Again, I apologize.
One minor thing – you slightly misread my comments about the refs in last night’s game. I didn’t think they were biased against the Cats. I think they did a crap job both ways. Another example was the flagrant/ejection foul call. I could see calling it as a flagrant. But the ejection was over the top. I’m noticing in almost every game I watch that the refs are displaying some knee-jerk reactions to all the noise being made by one guy trying to make enough money to pay off his lawyers and rack up some more money to gamble with.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 12, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Wallace wasn't playing at an all-star level until recently.
It’s only been in the last few weeks, as his offensive production has increased to match his effort and intensity on defense, that he’s moved firmly into the ASG discussion. And the team’s success certainly has plenty to do with it as well. If 20-11 from Al Jefferson doesn’t make him an All-Star, then 13-11 wasn’t going to do it for Crash.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
It's ok.
I certainly didn’t see it as gloating.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
The Bobcats have the talent, they just came out flat
A down game is expected occasionally. Especially after winning 6 of their last 8, and very convincingly beating teams like Cleveland and Denver, who by the way you lost to last time you played. To think they can’t keep up with the Spurs, but can beat teams that the Spurs can’t keep up with, is obviously you being an unrealistic fan.
Truth is, you guys are getting too old to play at a high level. The Bobcats are up and coming, will surpass you, and you will be forced to go into rebuilding mode… Face the inevitable.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
by southtunnel on Dec 12, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
If the Bobcats have the talent...
why are they blown out more often than not when playing elite teams? The Bobcats aren’t going to be better than the Spurs for years and years to come.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
In the last month beating Atlanta, Toronto, Denver, Cleveland...
Losing to Orlando by 6, Milwaukee by 7, Portland by 6. I think that’s proof enough that they have enough talent to beat a 10-9 team.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
You're impressed by a 7-point loss to a Milwaukee team that didn't even SNIFF the playoffs next year.
I see why you’re so excited about the potential to have a 38-win team.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Forgive me if I'm a fan
If you hate the team so much what are you doing here?
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
No.
But ST’s comment effectively refutes your BS statement the Bobcats have been “blown out more often than not when playing elite teams.” Totally not true. With wins over ATL, DEN, CLE they obviously can win against top competition. And ST was pointing out that their losses haven’t been blow outs. There were two blow out losses to BOS and a pretty bad loss @ DET. But none of the others have been blow outs. Last night against SAN was the closest, but the ’Cats kept it competitive until the 4th.
Typical Procto BS.
"Kept it competitive until the 4th?"
So they were done by the time just 75% of the game had been played? Impressive. You’re right. That is a feat worth cheering.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not getting involved in antother 'Felton v. DJ' debate, however, here are some things to consider.
- Since the Stephen Jackson aquisition Augustin has average 11.5 mpg. Over 75% of this time was with the second unit. I’m not really sure you can blame him for not developing chemistry with the starters when he never really gets an opportunity to play with them.
- Felton’s recent stats have been amazing. That being said, when he averages 17.2 ppg in the 5 games prior to the San Antonio game, and is lauded as the difference maker I find it a little hard to buy when he scores 8 pts (7.7 per 36) he’s still amazing and Augustin ruined the entire game when he scored 3 pts in 11 mins (9.8 per 36) and didn’t turn the ball over.
Other thoughts:
- I think Diaw needs to spend a week on the bench. Derrick Brown is proving to be more effective on both sides of the ball. The kid deserves a chance while Diaw finds his game again.
- 2 mins for Henderson is an abberation. He needs to play more, simple as that.
- Just because Larry Brown wants to will Stephen Graham into being an NBA player doesn’t make it so. He has way too much confidence on court and acts like he can hit any shot, when in reality this doesn’t happen very often.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions
I agree with almost everything you said James except
in regard to Augustin. On opening night DJ was my favorite player on the team. Now, a quarter of the way into the season I’m ready to D league his ass. There is a marked drop in overall team execution of plays each and every time he steps on the court to replace Felton. At the end of last season Deej looked like the solution to the Felton question. Now he’s only served to shine a spotlight on the question and turn it into a massive roster problem. The only reason for giving him minutes at all right now is because Felton can’t play 48 per every night unless we want him moving like Fred Sanford by the end of the year.
by Ourdaywillcome on Dec 12, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with what you're saying
He’s young and a little less NBA ready than first thought.
I think he has all the raw tools but is still a young guy trying to find his place in the league. I think Larry Brown has a ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ mentality to coaching which long term moulds good players, but in the short terms makes them a little gunshy and unsure of their game.
I think a stint in the D-league could be a good thing for Deej. Not as a scolding, or a demotion, but as an opportunity to run an offense every night while we stick with the hot hand (Felton).
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Just because Larry Brown wants to will Stephen Graham into being an NBA player doesn’t make it so. He has way too much confidence on court and acts like he can hit any shot, when in reality this doesn’t happen very often.
Last year, we had that same situation, except the player’s name was Shannon Brown. I wonder if Graham could thrive on an actual good team.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Augustin not playing with starters is the same flawed logic Procton used
LB rarely plays without at least 2 starters in… unless it’s garbage time. Yesterday half of Augustin’s minutes were with Diaw, Jackson and Wallace, and the other half with Diaw/Brown and 2 of Jackson/Murray/Wallace. I don’t think playing with Mohammad is really a drop off… actually should help him.
Again the only consistent missing component when Augustin is in, is Felton. Remember last year Augustin got many minutes with Felton, and he played much better. If you guys would stop trying so hard to criticize Felton, you would see how much better this team is with him.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I never said the team wasn’t better with Felton, actually I said the opposite:
while we stick with the hot hand (Felton).
Augustin’s development as a point guard was stunted by Larry Brown in 2008-09 by forcing him to play the 2 with Felton running the point. The same was done to Felton when he played SG with Brevin Knight in the backcourt.
The ‘flawed’ logic is actually quite sound. A point guard is only as good as the talent around them, and I think it’s obscene to think otherwise. Case in point Aaron Brooks; Brooks would have a great game here or there off the bench, but was definitely not looking like a bonafide star. His passing numbers were very, very low- 3.4 apg off the bench (4.3 per 36)
Then, surprise, surprise, Alston gets traded, Brooks starts and immediately improves his game in every area. When playing with the 1st team his apg improves to 7.9 apg (8.4 per 36).
I said Augustin played with the 1st team 25% of the time. I took Augustin’s minutes since the Jackson acqusition, you looked at 1 quarter from one game yesterday.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
It's not just one game
Go back through the play-by-plays and try to find a game (other than garbage time) when Augustin is playing without at least 2 of Diaw/Wallace/Jackson. You know LB doesn’t have enough talent to have a very deep rotation. Since the Jackson acquisition him and Wallace are both averaging over 40 minutes per game.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
I don't need play by plays.... there's 82games.com
82games.com shows that Augustin has only played with Jackson, Wallace and Diaw for 12.3 minutes in 2009-10.
He’s played:
21 mins with: Felton-Wallace-Radmanovic-Diaw
17 mins with: Felton-Wallace-Diaw-Chandler
I fail to see why Diaw should even be in the equation. I know he’s a starter, but he’s been terrible thus far in 2009-10. Before Jackson came to the team Felton’s numbers were bad too.
So, I think you can only evaluate Augustin’s time with Wallace and Jackson, and as far as that goes 12.3 minutes isn’t enough for me to go on.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Here's his full breakdown FYI
Augustin-Felton-Wallace-Radmanovic-Diaw- 21.6 mins
Augustin-Felton-Wallace-Diaw-Chandler – 17.0 mins
Augustin-Murray-Jackson-Wallace-Diaw – 12.3 mins
Augustin-Henderson-Graham-Brown-Ajinca- 10.6 mins
Augustin-Bell-Wallace-Diaw-Chandler – 7.9 mins
Augustin-Henderson-Brown-Ajinca-Mohammed 7.8 mins 7.0 mins
Augustin-Murray-Wallace-Diaw-Chandler – 7.6 mins
Augustin-Murray-Wallace-Radmanovic-Diaw – 7.2 mins
Augustin-Graham-Wallace-Diaw-Chandler – 7.1 mins
Augustin-Bell-Wallace-Radmanovic-Diaw
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Now you are changing your point
1st, you said since the Jackson acquisition.
2nd, Diaw no longer counts? Felton plays with him too.
3rd, thanks for pointing out that site… Augustin has only played 25 minutes this year when there wasn’t 3 or more starters in. The other 80 minutes is played with 3 or more friggin starters!
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
You're point isn't consistent.
Felton’s numbers sucked without Wallace and Jackson. It’s ridiculous to act like Chandler and Diaw make a player better because they’re ‘starters’.
You keep saying ‘3 or more starters’… it doesn’t change the fact that Felton caught fire when Jackson was acquired and he played with Gerald Wallace AND Stephen Jackson, an opportunity Augustin has had for 12 minutes.
How did I change my point?
Jackson and Wallace make the team and players better, Diaw and Chandler do not.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 13, 2009 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
If you guys would stop trying so hard to criticize Felton, you would see how much better this team is with him.
+1,000,000,000,000
Who said the team wasn’t better off with him?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
on DJ vs Felton
Points per 36 is certainly not the only factor to consider. And it requires some serious logical gymnastics to make the argument that Felton’s play this season is NOT far and away superior to Augustin’s.
Who said it wasn’t?
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Dec 12, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
I heard we were desperate for scoring.
If he’s not distributing or scoring, what the hell is he doing? Oh, playing the vast majority of a blowout to a mediocre team.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Averaging an assist, rebound, steal or score in every 2 minutes that he's playing
But watch your back Felton! Augustin racked up a whopping score or assist in every 5 minutes.
on behalf of tha dirty south: soul food, carolina blue, southern hospitality, and tha queen city
If you're allowed to play 40 minutes a game...
You’re going to get numbers. Particularly if you’re talking about a fluky, non-repeatable skill like steals.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Dec 12, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
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