Pistons Smoke Bobcats 98-75
Charlie Villanueva looked like an All Star while leading the Pistons' dominating victory over the Bobcats, 98-75. He had 30 points through the first three quarters, and Detroit put the game away for good in the third period.
It's easy to turn everything into a microcosm. But when everything in a given game can be the microcosm, it's just what reality is. We knew going into the season that the offense was going to be miserable, but none of us figured it would be this disgusting. I'm hoping the putrid play we've been watching -- clanking jumpers, awkward post ups, nobody moving away from the ball -- is just a slump that happened to come at the start of the season. But eventually, we won't be able to chalk the crappiness up to bad luck, anymore. As it stands, we're staring down the barrel of a landmark terrible offense, and there doesn't appear to be any reason to think that will change.
Highlights and lowlights after the jump:
BAD
-- Just as there's no precise moment when we'll tumble over the edge of despair regarding the Bobcats' season, there's no precise moment when we'll all have acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, last season was the anomaly, and Boris Diaw just isn't that good. Tonight was a particularly uninspired game from Boris, but the turnovers, the lack of rebounds, and the drop in scoring back to his pre-Bobcats levels are all indicative of a guy who's a nice complementary player, but who's also horribly miscast as a key cog. Don't look at his contract details unless you want to cry.
-- Vladimir Radmanovic: DNP-CD. Amazing. Dude was, ostensibly, our 7th man going into the season. Larry Brown must have been trying to send a message that the space cadet thing has to end.
-- Under 50% from the field. Under 30% from three. More turnovers than assists. Choose your indicator, and the Cats weren't up to snuff.
GOOD
-- Nazr Mohammed, with 13 points and 8 rebounds in 15 minutes, continues his renaissance, garbage time notwithstanding.
-- (Good for the Pistons) Will Bynum is a pro's pro. I was going to make this point about the Magic's reserves last night, but it also applies here. Guys like Bynum and Matt Barnes bring what they bring, production-wise, but if you were to attempt to quantify the attitude that you want from your athletes, I think those guys embody a lot of desirable traits. They don't take their jobs for granted. They're intense about doing their jobs well. And they'll go toe to toe with anyone; it might actually be impossible to intimidate them.
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When Nazr Mohammad is your leading scorer, you know there's trouble.
- 30th in the league in PPG
- 30th in the league in FG %
- 1st in the league in turnovers
We’re embarrasing right now, absolutely embarrasing. This is what we get for standing pat all offseason and letting every single solitary big man get signed by other teams.
Might as well salt the earth and start over because forget about the playoffs when we cant score… at all.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 11, 2009 11:50 PM EST reply actions
This from a man who supports Jake Delhomme
Where is your Bobcats optimism? there are 82 games not just 16 you know.
As bad as the Panthers started the season they were never last in the league in three areas.
Delhomme was one player letting another 52 guys down.
The Bobcats have at least 10 out of 12 players underperforming.
I know there are 82 games, but I fail to see the analogy. The Panthers were 12-4 in 2008 and made the playoffs, stayed almost the same team going into 2009, so there was a reasonable chance they could return to that form.
The Bobcats were knocking on the door in 2008 then decided the smart move was to trade one of the team’s best players for an inferior one and not fix any of the team’s problems… because of this they are vastly inferior to last season’s itteration.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 12, 2009 7:11 AM EST up reply actions
And, truth be told...
The Panthers have shown improvement throughout the course of the season. Since an 0-3 start, they’re 3-2 after having a bye and starting things over a bit. The Bobcats, if anything, have gotten worse as the season has progressed.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
The season is too young to write it off right now.
The Panthers and the Bobcats have the same record: 3-5 — a winning percentage of .380. The difference is that 8 games is 50% of the NFL season, and less than 10% of an NBA season. So three games into the Panthers season they were almost 20% through with their entire season and at 0-3 still had a winning% of .000.
So far the 3-5 ’Cats have a winning percentage of .380 and are not even 10% through with their season, but people are ready to write them off! Ten percent of an NFL season is a game and a half! If the Bobcats were 0-17 (even 0-8) then this sky is falling crap would have some merit.
lets look at the Schedule so far
@Boston: Bad loss, but expected. Boston is stacked and its on the road.
against NY: Home opener. A must win. The ’Cats do.
@ Cleveland: ’Cats show some fight. Keep LeBron in check but lose.
against NJ: Another won that needs to be won. Cats do it again!
against ATL: Blow out win against a playoff competitor!
@ Chicago: Bobcats lead all game only to blow it in the 2nd half on the road.
against ORL: Bobcats lose for the 1st time at home to a better team. It happens.
@Detroit: Biggest disappointment of the YOUNG season. Cats lose! It IS on the road.
So 3-5 is not as bad a start as so many people are making it. The three losses @CLE, @ Boston and to ORL were to be expected and no big deal. The one that got away in Chicago may come back and get them. That would have offset the home loss to Orlando and kept the Cats at .500. But with 72 games left, there is plenty of time to have a successful season.
With more than 90% of it left, don’t you think it’s a little silly to have given up on the entire season!?!
You don't note that this team has not remotely gotten better.
We’ve added back two guards who should be decent, and we’ve gotten worse, if anything.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
if we could somehow find a way to get rid of DIop and Radmonavich's salary.......maybe they could *fall* out of a plane....
random question: does the team have to pay the salary of a dead player? just wonderin. Like that guy that died for the redskins a few years back did they pay him?
Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
I noted that there is PLENTY OF TIME to get better.
The Panthers didn’t start “improving” (or have a single win) until their season was over 20% finished. The Panthers are already half way through their season.
The ‘Cats season is less than 10% finished and won’t be half way over until Jan 22. Plenty of time for the Bobcats to improve their play, and become more consistent.
This team is putrid. Diaw has been unbearable, and I agree that this is the norm. Last season was the anomaly. Go ask the Hawks and the Suns what they think about him.
I vote we get rid of Gerald Wallace while his stock is high. We might not be able to get anything back besides somebody’s leftovers, but who are we kidding? Do we really think this team has a chance to make the playoffs? Dump Diaw, Gerald Wallace, and any other older player possible. Tank the season, get a high pick in the gold mine that is the 2010 draft, and go from there.
In reality, the problem with this team comes down to 3 people. If Bob Johnson owned the team as Donald Sterling, they would be fighting for worst owners in the NBA. Michael Jordan is the worst token GM there is. Everyone knows he was hired as nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the fans with his “star power.” And that leaves Larry Brown, who is an excellent coach, but let’s be honest, the long term effect he has on franchises isn’t so positive. He turns crappy teams into pretty good teams, but does not build for the future at all. Look what the Pistons are going through now. The 76ers are still trying to figure it out.
We either need a genius GM like R.C. Buford or Sam Presti, or someone like Mark Cuban as an owner who couldn’t care less about the bottom line as long as he gets to travel the country cheering his team on.
End rant.
Problem is
Gerald Wallace’s stock isn’t high right now, on the contrary it’s extremely low.
- 26th in the NBA in scoring among forwards.
- 52nd in the NBA in FG % among forwards (last in the NBA)
Other than the rebounds he’s playing horribly right now.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 12, 2009 7:25 AM EST up reply actions
is anyone playing very well
aside from Mohammed who i would like to see more of. though i doubt he can score in double figures nightly
Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
A few observations
I’m one very happy Bobcats fan tonight.
No, I’m not on drugs.
Wellll, okay so I AM on drugs, but that’s because I’m also crippled into a wheelchair for the rest of my life. I should say I’m not on any new drugs.
But I have reasons for being so happy in the face of the sort of humiliating loss we prayed we’d not see again this season. Let me count the ways:
Henderson and Brown saw 35 minutes of action between them. Brown went 2 for 4, picked up a couple of boards and a pair of assists. Henderson only went 1 for 4, but put up similar stats to Brown the rest of the way across the line.
Najr Mohammed dropped in 13 points and came within a couple of rebounds of a strong double-double. Hell, even Ajinca saw over 7 minutes of action.
Looking over the checklist of suggestions, complaints, and howls of agony that the intrepid Rufus on Fire gang have presented here in recent days, it looks as if Coach Brown literally read it over and implemented it.
More minutes for the rookies – check!
More minutes for the bench in general – check!
More effort at penetration and less reliance on the long ball – che… uh, we did it for larger chunks of the game than usual tonight, so maybe a small check for that one.
Less turnovers – another small check. Until exhaustion set in we were holding onto the ball quite efficiently thankyouverymuch.
In addition, Tyson Chandler once again picked up 5 fouls (the stat sheet only shows 4 because the last one was mistakenly called on Henderson so the 4 is official) but he spread them out so well during the game that he was only briefly benched because of them. He got in a solid 33+ minutes – they weren’t terribly productive and he got served with a massive dunk from one of the smallest players in the league, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. He didn’t play well enough to warrant me taking back some of the nasty I dumped on his name last night, but he made a start.
Seriously y’all, I’m not joking about my optimism. We started the season with a similar road loss, albeit to a better team than Detroit threw at us, but there were reasons for that loss. The team was still learning plays and the only chemistry they knew was whatever they remembered from high school science. They also weren’t at full health – we had injuries and our players weren’t in condition.There were reasons for tonight’s loss too and I can make the case that many of them were the exact same ones we hit against the Celtics.
For example, We aren’t at full health – we still have an injury with Raja scratched for tonight. We also aren’t at full conditioning because many of the players we used tonight have almost as much rust on them as they do splinters in their butts from benchriding. Because of LB’s usage of the deep bench this game, our chemistry faltered as well.
What killed us tonight was energy, or more specifically, the utter lack of it. Our starters were dead on their feet by the start of the 3rd and it showed. We started forcing shots, turning the ball over, and by the start of the 4th quarter even some of our layups were rimming off the front of the iron. Coach Brown left them in there while once again we went from being in the thick of things to getting demolished. I wanted to shout halleliujahs when LB put Henderson and Brown in during the first half. But the damage was already done. Had he begun utilizing them last night against the Magic, our starters would have had enough juice left in Detroit to keep the fight going. If he’d started the third with our reserves and saved the starters for the 4th things would have been better as well. However:
In a lot of ways, this was the start of some major changes in the way our coach uses his roster and if he sticks with it I believe we’ll start doing a whole lot better on the back end of these back-to-back nights. I only pray LB doesn’t throw out the baby with the bath water and abandon the changes before we can enjoy some of the benefits.
This was a nasty, nasty night, but I truly think we may be at the beginning of a growth spurt for our young team and things will be looking up sooner rather than later. We aren’t going to win every night – we aren’t that good. We’re going to have some embarrasing nights this season – we aren’t that good. But if Coach looks at our scheduling and uses his bench wisely to set us up for the games we CAN win and we steal a couple of games here and there by good fortune, we’re going to have a real shot at the playoffs – we ARE that good.
Still, if you know of anyone out there willing to trade a steady 12 point and 7 rebound a night player for a center with an overpriced contract that averages more fouls than field goals a game, give me a call!
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 12, 2009 12:26 AM EST reply actions
Yes, it’s good the rookies got some burn tonight and I do think they’ll turn out to be good players. Ajinca… I don’t know. He just doesn’t look like a basketball player and I don’t think he’ll ever be anything more than a 12th man on a mediocre team.
But this game (and the season so far) shows not just what’s wrong with our team today, this week, or this season, but the mistakes management has made that will ruin our future for the next 3 years (just ask Chad Ford and John Hollinger). Our team has very little room for improvement with the current roster of perpetual disappointments (Diaw, Rad-Man, Mohammed, Diop…). We don’t have the kind of organization that can take someone like that and breathe life into them.
Has this team made a single good decision in its entire existence? You could argue Okafor was the right choice in that draft. Gerald Wallace in an expansion draft was a good move. Other than that we have a slew of moronic moves starting with hideous orange uniforms, Sean May, Michael Jordan, Adam Morrison, Sam Vincent, trading Brandon Wright (the only CORRECT UNC decision made by this crew), the Matt Carroll extension, the Mohammed contract, giving up Jared Dudley for no reason, passing on Brooke Lopez (the inside presence we’ve craved)……
This team can’t shoot, can’t post up, turns the ball over, and has no room for improvement. Augustin, Henderson, and Derrick Brown WILL get better. But don’t fool yourself, they’re role players. The ceiling for this team is a 40-60 chance at being the 8th seed in the playoffs with absolutely NO potential for the future because of decisions made in the past.
You’re right. This is just one game. It’s only a couple weeks into the season. But our frustrations aren’t about this game or this season. It’s that we all know what we signed up for for the next 3-5 years.
The one thing that would make this season a success is NOT the 8th seed in the playoffs. It’s getting the team sold to a competent owner who will fire Michael Jordan and follow the mold of the Spurs, Thunder, Trailblazers… Someone that knows what they’re doing.
40-60 is a nice speculation number...
But math says we’re down in the neighborhood of 25%. Sportsclubstats claims we’ll need 41 wins to have a reasonable shot to get into the playoffs. Do you see this team playing two games above .500 for the rest of the season?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I do.
Have you watched them play? They’re laughably bad in much of every game they play.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
I've watched EVERY game this season...
…and i see right through your hyperbole. Your comments make me wonder if you have watched ANY of the games.
I certainly have, thanks.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
I love the optimism Ourdaywillcome...
I truly hope you’re right.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 12, 2009 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think there are going to be 37 more nights this season where we can outplay our opponent.
Good bench use or not, there are deeply-rooted problems with this team that aren’t going to be fixed without a major move we don’t have the pieces to pull off.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
My honest opinion of your team
You have the wrong players for the wrong system. Wallace, Diaw and Felton do not fit with your offense at all. They need to be running more not held back Brown. I think you guys should make a move for Rip Hamilton. Lose Vlad, Diop, Nazr, and maybe Diaw ( once again, just not being used right). I think Brown and the Fo must leave for you guys. You guys need to get a franchise player to build around. Rip is a good starting piece but you need to draft for the highest potential which you guys did not do. If you guys want a big I think Larry Sanders would fit for you guys. High potential guy but is a little raw on offense but has a great motor. Best post defender to come out since Dwight. He also is developing a mid range game.Compare him to a really raw Dwight with longer arms.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
The NBA comparison I've seen for Sanders is Sean Williams...
That’s pretty disconcerting.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
They also said Deshawn Stevenson was MJ
And that Steph Curry was Ben Gordon.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
So you're saying that guys quite often UNDERachieve their projections?
Ugh…even scarier.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I have to disagree a bit
We’re holding some awful contracts, and we owe it to management, I agree.
This team is a failure to date, I agree. But there are 2 types of success in the NBA.
The first kind, of primary concern to the fans, is success in the standings. We aren’t going to see that for at least 2 more seasons – not tangible success the way I and I believe most others would measure it anyway. That would involve us becoming playoff contenders. The way the league is set up, new teams coming in are not going to have an easy road to the NBA finals. It takes 4-6 years to become serious playoff contenders and usually at least a decade to become something other than a flash in the pan. I’m talking about a REAL team with a future. That timetable involves a front office that makes almost zero mistakes in the first 5 years and we all know that doesn’t describe what’s happened in Charlotte. Miami and Orlando are now strong contenders each year to go deep into the playoffs, but how long have they been in business? What about the other expansion teams from about that time? Seen the Grizzlies and the Timberwolves making the Lakers and Celtics quake in fear anytime recently? What about our own former local boys? But what we need here in Charlotte is the OTHER kind of success:
Financial success is the only true measure of health in any professional sport. Bob Johnson’s pockets were simply not deep enough to weather the fan apathy that has manifested for his team. Championships cost money. Money comes from either an insanely wealthy owner/consortium or from fans. It isn’t a chicken or egg scenario. With 20K and more empty seats in the Cable Box every game we don’t have the high dollars coming in that this league requires to build a team. Yeah, you can fill the seats with a winning team, but the Hornets didn’t have to do that, did they? The sucked and still sold out the old Hive. They made some mighty idiotic decisions too! Chapman or Reid anyone? Was the OKafor deal any worse than the Mourning deal? The Bobcats organization had enough money to weather a certain amount of management stupidity without filling the seats and they’ve gone past that limit. The options are:
1. Sell a huge chunk or all of the team – a VERY real possibility, but Johnson and crew aren’t having much luck unless you consider Jordan’s buying still deeper. That in itself wouldn’t be so bad but like Kevin McHale in Minnesotta, MJ just can’t keep his hands off the team and trust anyone else to make the decisions. If they find a sucker – I mean interested buyer – there is always the risk they’ll head for greener pastures and leave us without a local team again. You may think there aren’t many options for relocation, but places like Boston and Chicago are large enough markets that a second team in the neighborhood could catch on. I don’t like to think about how long it will take to bring a new franchise back to the Carolinas again when any potential owner will be looking at the Bobcats attendance sheets as the main revenue potential.
2. Cough up the coin to eat $30 million in bad contracts and then spend enough to build something real from scratch – not gonna happen in Charlotte anytime soon.
3. Get creative with the marketing – this is actually happening. The Cats have gone all out to bring in new corporate partners and increase sponsorship and as much as we shudder and even laugh at companies like Spongetech, they’re keeping the team alive for us. There are some VERY attractive ticket prices and packages out there as well. Supply and demand is in effect right now and with the supply far outstripping the demand it is definitely a buyers market for the fans. Enjoy it while you can because if this team ever does catch on, those prices will be gone forever. I’m originally from a town where the waiting list for season tickets to an baseball team that went amost a century without a championsip is over 6 years long. In short, if we don’t go to the games once in a while we have ZERO reason to whine when the team is called the Sheyboygen Bobcats in a few years. If we don’t buy the team swag and gear then don’t complain when the only thing going on at the Cable Box is Disney on Ice. (by the way, I’ve seen Disney on Ice and for an old dead guy, he didn’t look half bad.)
Either way, and for whatever combination of reasons from crappy draft/trade decisions to a big empty room with a hyperactive announcer in the middle of it, we’re not going anyplace fast in the standings until the owners are in the financial position to say, “screw the luxury tax, we’re building a winner!” Like it or not, this is our team. I’m not saying this to anybody in particular. Call this a State of the Team report for anyone who needs it.
We are in the position now where we must either hope our boys pull off enough excitement to put fans in the house (the decision to bring LB into town was an attempt to do this) or get skunk-rotten for the remainder of this season. We can’t afford to linger in low-end mediocrity any longer. The team will hemmorhage to death one drop of blood at a time. I guess I’m a weirdo on this level. I’d rather we lose 70 games and get involved in what looks to be a WHOPPER of a draft than see us finish 9th in the conference again. Whether we win 15 or 45 however, I’ll still be cheering for Bob’s Cats. I’m a fan, it’s what I do. I won’t wring my hands over past stupidity, just pray the owners can overcome it. I’ll also scream, complain, and howl with each new act of stupidity and keep looking for ways that things can be made better. As a fan, I get the privilege of doing that too. Why? Because the alternative is best summed up by something I don’t want to deal with – The Sheyboygen Bobcats and a nightmare sentence I don’t ever want to hear again:
“Man, I sure miss the days when the NBA played in the Carolinas.”
You act as though the executive staff didn't understand the expansion restrictions.
They absolutely did, and for a time, there was a smart GM making the basketball moves he needed to so that this team could stay competitive in the long term in Bernie Bickerstaff. He built a team that competed every night through the draft and affordable free agent/trade acquisitions. He knew that wasn’t going to net 45 wins, but he knew it wouldn’t tank the team’s future success as trades for guys like Mohammed, Diop, Radmanovic, and Diaw have. Unfortunately, though, because he wasn’t a Michael Jordan puppet, he was punted like so much garbage.
And no, this team isn’t going to move.
I don’t know what “attractive ticket prices and packages” you’re talking about. There are no game promotions (merchandise giveaways, food/drink discount nights, etc.) whatsoever, and the only pricing deals you can get are for a minimum of four tickets and four games. For somebody like me, a student who’s an hour plus away from Charlotte, there’s no way to make that big of a commitment.
The arena environment, while it’s something you gloss over, is a huge drawback for much of the potential fanbase. Johnson knew one thing: BET marketing. But the Charlotte business community didn’t want to come to a basketball game and hear rap and an idiot “hypeman” from tip to horn. While the in-game experience has gotten a little better, it hasn’t changed much, and there’s only one chance for a first impression.
Not sure what willingness to spend over the luxury tax will do for us. All that really allows is for you to sign your own players, and I don’t see a plethora of them on the roster worth keeping around long-term.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not knocking Bernie Bickerstaff.
but by bringing in players that he, as you say, “knew wasn’t going to net 45 wins” (whether that was Bernie’s call alone or not) you are as much as admitting to much of what got us into the quagmire in the first place. It takes a hell of a lot more than a 45 win team to compete effectively in the NBA playoffs. What that does is build a perennial “almost” team like Utah sports and while that might look pretty good from where we’re sitting right now, it doesn’t build champions. You don’t start a business saying, “let’s go for the upper middle of the industry.” You shoot for the top, one ladder rung at a time.
At the time the team made the moves for Diaw, Radmanovic et al, Jordan thought he was making sound decisions. He wasn’t. But bemoaning history doesn’t change things, it just teaches us not to repeat mistakes. I’m focusing on what we deal with here and now – 2009 – and looking at what options remain to us.
As to ticket packages – there are new ticket price deals with the corporate partner employees getting discounts. There is also the 4 tickets, 4 drinks, 4 hotdogs for $60 bucks, the same $60 deal with a t-shirt instead of the groceries, the package where you get a ticket for an “A” team like the Lakers along with tickets to 3 other games of your choice, etc. Oh, and last week the first 15000 fans got a free shirt. Let’s see… food discounts, merchandise giveaway, bundles for 4 tickets to ONE game, bundles for 1 ticket to FOUR games. I guess either I don’t know what I’m talking about here or you haven’t called the box office and ASKED what kind of deals there are. Oh, and by the way – I’m also well over an hour away from Charlotte (Winston-Salem area) and in a wheelchair that also has me on a fixed income that’s smaller than I used to earn in the workplace. If you’re not going to the games that’s fine. School is rough and eats a lot of clock and coin. But don’t blame the Cats front office for that. They ARE doing their part.
The arena environment is indeed a drawback. At my age noise is also an issue at rock concerts, as are overactive light shows. But it isn’t much worse than Detroit or LA. It isn’t a BET marketing thing, it’s YOM (Youth Oriented Marketing) and targets the largest demographic audience. I’m not a part of that and obviously the hip-hop aspects of that marketing plan aren’t something you’re into. I’m with you there bro, truly. But market research shows it puts the butts in the seats at indoor sports events better than Conway Twitty lookalike contests or Pink Floyd retrospectives at halftime so we have to live with it.
You are correct about my luxury tax comment. I meant to say “salary cap” and I was talking about cutting the high-price contract players and buying them out, then going hogwild with free agency. I’d rather pay off say, Tyson Chandler, NOT to play and bring in a more versatile player that will produce instead of just look good on paper. That was my mistake.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 12, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
As a matter of fact...
I was just on the line with the box office staff LAST WEEK! And they said specifically that there was: a. no in-stadium promotions calendar and that none were scheduled and b. no ticket discount short of a four-seat, four-game commitment. So maybe you’re extended some special corporate discount, but I certainly am not.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Funky
I’m disabled. I’m not getting a corporate anything. Sounds like you got bad information from whoever you talked to. No joke. I’m going to the game on Saturday night. Do you want me to talk to someone at the gate and see if somethings coming up? Let me know and I’ll fill you in on what I find out. Also – if you’re in my area (Winston-Salem again) maybe we can find a couple of other people and buy one of those 4 seat packages at the discounted price – assuming you can actually make it to the game around school schedules etc.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 12, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
This team is done. Not that it ever had a chance. A terrible job by the FO in the off-season.
Blow this group up. Start over.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
There is no starting over
Not this year. Not without a $100 million plus cash injection that the owners are unable or unwilling to spend.
If the team goes completely under we’re done with pro hoops for a long time.
IF current ownership can hang on for a couple of years we can start over. IF we finish in the bottom 5 and the conditional trade picks we’re already committed to don’t cripple us, we can make a damned good start at a rebuild. IF the fans start spending some money into the system for a couple of years until the contracts we’ve already swallowed go bye-bye we can start over in 2013. IF our existing team plays to its fullest potential this season and we make a legit run at the 6 or 7 seed in the East we’ll at least attract enough fans to keep the gates open.
In order to do that however, we either have to be patient with things or we’re gonna have to do something very ugly. We’re going to have to admit that our current roster can’t play the system they’re being taught and fire Coach Brown.
If that happens, expect the team to drop 8-10 games in a row while the interim coach starts playing with lineups and figuring out how to utilize a team of misfits more efficiently than one of the most storied Hall of Fame coaches in NBA history. It amounts to “can the coach, score the lottery shot.” If you think Time Warner Arena is a ghost town now, watch what happens with a new coach. The place will be as empty as Paris Hilton’s head. If you want to see a score like last night’s against us when we’re playing teams like New Jersey, by all means let’s change horses in the middle of the stream and put LB out to pasture.
Problems? Hell yeah, the Cats have some beauts. But as long as they’re here they need as many true fans as they can scrape together. Fans that show the tenacity of Indians, Red Sox, and Cubs fans. Fans that aren’t fair-weather friends. Why bother? Because when they DO get it together and make a serious run it tastes all the better because we survived the famine years. Because it feels good to laugh back at all the people that are laughing at us now when THEY start wearing Cats gear and calling themselves fans. But most of all, because everything stops when the Bobcats play and if they fold or pick up their toys and move elsewhere it will be one less break from the hassles and boredom of life that we’ll have.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 12, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
This team can’t score. It defends adequately enough and is incredibly weak when it goes to the bench. Tell me, how is this a playoff team? Stop living in a dream world. There isn’t a star on this team, there are a bunch of guys that do some things well but not great. There isn’t a go to scorer or a player with a hint of “I want to win” attitude. This team is just breeding a losing culture. Fans know it so why should they care. The rest of us just happen to like basketball and happen to have picked the Bobcats as a team.
Everyone involved with this team needs to go. I’m sick of hearing about how great Larry Brown is. He may be a good coach but he still needs talent to win and this cash strapped team hasn’t shown an ability to target, develop or sign talent. They are done. This season now is about DJ Augustine, Gerald Henderson, Gerald Wallace and finding a way to unload Diaw, Bell and other bad contracts.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
You know who would be a great coach for this group?
Sam Vincent.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
All Larry Brown has gotten us is a couple extra wins and tons more payroll.
And it’s come at the cost of his surely very high coaching salary and the construction of a roster that nobody else will be able to coach either.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
The #6 or #7? Are you kidding?
To get there would take somewhere close to 45 wins. Do you really see us going 5+ games over .500 over the rest of the year? Certainly not with this roster, I don’t. And if you think Larry Brown is what’s bringing the dozens of fans out, I think you’re severely misguided. At this point, attendance has pretty much hit bottom. People are coming because they’re locked in to season tickets or just want to watch some basketball regardless. Finally, don’t you dare compare this fanbase to the Indians, Red Sox, or Cubs. All of those teams, you know, make the playoffs on occasion. All of those teams have ownerships who are both committed to winning and know how to do make it happen (or know how to keep their hands off and allow somebody more intelligent to do so.) This franchise has shown little other than ineptitude from day one.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Read what I actually wrote
I’ve seen you get into this sort of thing with others in this forum already. You ask people to read what you actually are saying. How about doing the same for me? Did I say I believed we’d win 45? Did I say we’d reach the 6 or 7 seed? NO. I said it was necessary for this team to do that in order to fill the seats at the arena. Did I say LB is what brings people to the games? NO. I said that he was brought in for that purpose. He was supposed to bring marquee value while building the team to its best potential. His success on those levels is subjective and I myself have been highly critical of some of his methods. But the decision was made by the front office in large part because of the hope it would make the media and fans pause and say, “whoa! these guys ARE committed to a championship after all!”
And finally, don’t YOU dare talk to me about the fanbase of the Indians, Sox, and Cubs OR their owners’ commitment to winning unless you’ve actually lived in some of those places and watched the day-to-day goings on as a fan on the inside. I have and I know what I’m talking about. To use one city as an example, I watched the Yawkey family screw with the Sox for 2 decades and the fans there screamed about it daily just like they do here and I watched the Bruins management absolutely demolish the team repeatedly for even longer. I also watched the Celtics management run one of the most hopelessly racist NBA organizations that ever existed. Yet the fans filled the seats. The fans bought the gear. AND, the fans, for all their complaining, remained fans. Don’t go there with me dude, you are WAY out of your depth.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 12, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
The Bobcats aren't going anywhere
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure there’s a 25-year lease on the arena and if the current owner or any future owner wants to move the team, there is a substantial penalty due to the city of Charlotte in order to leave. I’m not sure where people keep getting the idea that the Bobcats will end up somewhere else in the near future. There’s a very very slim chance that an owner would pay such a large penalty to move the team, so we’re stuck with them if you like it or not.
You may be right
But Schinn had an agreement for the hive too. Where is he now? The Colts had a deal in Baltimore too as did the Whalers in Hartford. Don’t think it can’t happen.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 12, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Bad news when your "defensive monster" in the post allows a guy like Villanueva go off.
Reminds me of when “defensive stopper” Raja Bell showed up and Jamal Crawford dropped 50 like less than a week after he got here.
I love what Will Bynum brings. He’s the kind of guy I’d have love to have as our #3 PG this year, although I guess he doesn’t really have the size LB looks for in that role.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
Yet they've won three games
They can’t possibly get any worse than this yet somehow they’ve won three games. Crappy teams are half (and in the east more than half) the schedule; win those games and you’re respectable. Ring up a couple of surprising upsets, which they’ve always even in their early years found a way to do, and they may still actually (amazingly) be in contention for the 8th spot even if they’re last in every offensive category. Hell, they beat Atlanta…
Three games out of eight...
Projects to thirty wins on the year. Is that what you’re looking for?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 12, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions

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