Chandler vs. Okafor...game by game.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 8:53 AM EST
119 comments
The season has begun, and thus, quantifiable results in comparing the parts of a significant trade completed over the offseason between the Bobbies and Hornets. Below, we'll keep track of the performances of centers Tyson Chandler and Emeka Okafor.
Through 12/28: Okafor-28 G, 29.1 MPG, 10.7 PPG (.501 FG%), 9.9 RPG, 1.9 BPG, 1.4 TOPG, 2.8 PF/G
Chandler-25 G, 25.7 MPG, 6.6 PPG (.500 FG%), 7.0 RPG, 1.2 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 3.2 PF/G
'08-'09 Bobcats wins: 35
projected '09-'10 Bobcats wins: 33
11/19: With a surprisingly healthy start to the season by both players (at least in terms of being able to suit up and play), we've now seen the first injury-related absence in the pair. I'll track those below, since they're not entirely within the player's control and will effect these numbers.
11/18: Chandler sits out the second half of a game with a lower back injury, limiting him to 15 minutes.
11/20-11/22: Chandler misses two games with back injury.
12/22: Chandler leaves a game in the third quarter with what is diagnosed as a foot sprain.
12/26-12/28: Chandler misses two games with a stress reaction in his foot
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Suck my dick.
I’ve cared about this team since the day they were created.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 29, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you mean by this team?
Be honest. Youre a closet New OrleansHornets fan. Why dont you do a blog about the stats of Jason Richardson compared to Bell or one about Hollins to Diop? Because you arent a Suns or Twolves fan. You’re a Hornets fan. You already came out once(comment above). Go ahead and come out about your true fan colors.
What are you even talking about?
I am a Charlotte Bobcats fan. That does not, however, imply that I have to pretend their idiotic trades aren’t awful.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 29, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA
Last night as I was watching both games I though..“Man, Procton’s gonna have something to say about this.”
yep...
1 game, Chandler’s still hurt, he only played 20 mins. Okafor played closed to 30 and had the starting pg (who is Chris Paul) the entire game. Yep, this is the worst trade of all time. Your right Procton, just like usual. lol.
Really though, I like this idea. I’m pretty certain Okafor is going to excel in New Orleans with Chris Paul, but I think once Chandler gets back to 100% hes going to be a major contributor here in Charlotte.
Don't you DARE use that excuse...
Okafor’s been hurt for a month plus, and had gotten in a whopping four practices with his team, one of which was a walkthrough of the offense. Further, health really doesn’t matter. Okafor was only expected to play 18-24 last night, but managed 29. So which one of these players is the “tough” one who doesn’t “lack heart?” I’d say it’s the guy who’s going to play every night, as Okafor has done the last 175 nights in a row.
I’d also like to note that there is nothing at all in my above post that could be construed as anything other than right. I passed no judgment whatsoever. The numbers will do that for me throughout the course of the season.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
and...
Unless you negleted to read my last couple sentences, I like this idea. And I’m actually in more agreement with you than anything. I loved Okafor, I hated to see him go. But since I am a real Bobcats fan (I think you are to0, but me and some other folks on this blog aren’t 100% sure, lol) I gotta at least pull for Chandler to get better.
Don’t jump all over me bro, I’m with ya! No reason to get all feisty. Then again, if I was a Panthers fan, I might not be really happy either! Haha, just messin with ya man!
I think Okafor is going to be great with the Hornets and Chris Paul, I’m hopein Chandler can get a grip real soon, Lord knows we need all the help we can get at this point! lol!
Procto whats your point of this?
You still burned your boyfriend got traded so now you have to keep track of his stats? Are you a Chokafor stalker? Seriously, you need to be on the NEW ORLEANS HORNETS BLOG PAGE with all this nonsense. BTW, N.O. still lost despite Chokafors 18 10.
"it's a bad day to have a bad day"
by D.W.G. on Oct 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Procton, you know that I agree with you that this trade was horrible strictly based on a talent to talent level.
I’m begging you though, please don’t keep this up… because it’s going to get grim… way worse than Tyson’s jumpers last night
ZING
If Chandler means the TEAM wins more games, then I’ll be for the trade; but right now I’m still stunned that we traded Okafor for a guy who had less rebounds than Nazr last night.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 29, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
Fair enough.
To reflect your emphasis on team success, I will track our projected win pace (not looking so hot on that front either.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 29, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
sigh
this guy again…man i wish you never found this site
Further, health really doesn’t matter
did you really say that and mean it?
by rtgunn on Oct 30, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A player's relative health does not matter from game to game.
If they’re on the court on producing (as Okafor has done the last two plus years), he’s healthy enough. If he’s not (as Chandler has not for the last year plus), he’s wasting your team’s roster spot and payroll.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the best comments section ever.
so much venom I can’t see straight.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Welcome to Rufus on Fire...
where you know what you’re talking about if you think Ray Felton is an All-Star PG, Ajinca is a 15-10 player this year, and Tyson Chandler will turn Charlotte into a 48-win team because he’s better than Emeka Okafor despite being more injury-prone and statistically inferior his whole career.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 30, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes...welcome to Rugus on Fire
Where, after 1 game, Procto pulls out his bat and beats the Okafor/Chandler dead hores issue to death..
Also, meet Mr Reality – Michael Procton…he doesn’t candy coat anything for anyone.
He speaks only the truth (he really does)
Love him or hate him…we’ll all get his .02 all season wrong.
If the team picks up and goes on a winning tirade, he’ll eat his words…but if he’s right…he wins the “I Told You So” award
I will hand it to him…he’s been REAL quiet for a good while now. I’ve been waiting on his insight…
Procton…will you agree that at the current moment, Gerald Henderson should start over Graham?
by andrewlail76 on Oct 30, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I will not.
Brown trusts Graham. I don’t want our coach to have to coach around 20% of the players on the court. Graham is a reliable (if medocre) veteran who knows how to do the little things in the NBA. Frankly, I think Augustin should be starting next to Felton, but I guess that’s another matter altogether.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 31, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
OOPS
I made a few typos…
First line…Horse not hores
Mr. Reality section……we’ll get his .02 all season LONG
sry
Things I’ve discovered by reading this thread:
-People still expect Chandler to be decent.
-Procton, Aussie James and myself still wish Emeka was on this team.
-Procton beats dead hores (whores maybe) with a bat.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
Things I learned from this thread:
-People are really angry 1 game deep into the season
-4 people comment regularly here and they all hate each other
-I’m going to read this site just in case someone says something nice about Gerald Henderson, then laugh when one of you guys suggests Ray Felton is an All-Star caliber anything.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
Hate to spoil your fun Aisander
but the only one who regularly brings up Felton being All-Star is Procton when he’s trying play on the Felton/Okafor debate. In his usual asinine manner he tries to excuse Okafor’s less than stellar play by arguing against the phantom idea that Felton is an elite PG.
Granted, Felton gets a little extra love because he’s a hometown boy and he hasn’t lived up to his draft expectations (like that’s new), but most of us have a pretty honest view of his abilities. Procton just needs a goat when things go wrong. He’s the only one you’ll read putting Felton and All-Star together on a regular basis.
Okafor's "less than stellar play?"
He’s one of less than ten NBA players who averages a double-double for his career, and he’s among the best defensive centers in basketball.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 31, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Procton with a misguided argument? Who would have guessed it?
Everyone would have guessed it. NO ONE argued that Okafor couldn’t put up the same numbers he always has. NO ONE argued that Okafor was a worse offensive player than Chandler. The point of the trade is that Okafor was locked into a long term contract and wasn’t making the team that much better (the same thing YOU would be arguing if Felton was locked up long term).
Can anyone make a believable argument that Okafor would have changed the outcome of the Boston game? I’ll say that he would have made a difference in the NY game, but giving Nazr and Ajinca some decent minutes wouldn’t have hurt either.
Chandler has stunk it up for 2 games, but did anyone expect him to but he’s coming off of surgery and hasn’t played any ball in MONTHS. If he’s playing this way in 2 weeks then you can start calling him a bust. Even if he performs worse than Okafor, blowing the team up isn’t a bad idea. Charlotte is not a winning team. Okafor is not a center piece to a winning team (at least he hasn’t been w/ 3 different coaches in Charlotte).
Okafor will benefit from CP3 and West, but a direct statistical comparison of Okafor and Chandler completely misses the implications of the trade.
If Procton truly maintains this thread all season, how is it misguided?
If each game is tracked, then it should all come out in the wash.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 31, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
He's misguided to think that individual statistics are the only point of making the trade
How many people really thought Chandler would come in here and score as much as Okafor? Few if any. How many people thought that Okafor wouldn’t benefit from playing alongside Paul? Few if any.
Who really thought that Chandler was going to outperform Okafor in individual statistics? No one with any sense thought that.
I’m arguing the the individual statistics alone don’t say much in terms of why this particular trade was made. The statistic to focus on is how many wins does Charlotte get this year?
He's tracking the wins too, at my request.
The biggest irony is that proponent’s of the trade dismissed the notion that Tyson Chandler’s numbers improved when playing with CP3, but now, that’s the justification for Okafor putting up the same numbers he did in Charlotte.
Right now we’re on pace for a 41-41 season, of course it’s obviously very early days.
Personally, all I want to see at this point in Chandler back up all that babbling he’s doing on the court.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Oct 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, maybe some people said that James
but you’re arguing against the misguided minority who thought that Chandler didn’t get better by playing with CP3.
To be clear. The Hornet’s wins mean little if anything to the impact that the trade has on the Bobcats. That’s irrelevant. The Hornets have two former all stars. A direct comparison of wins means as much as the comparison as stats.
Charlotte’s wins alone is the only meaningful stat here.
And it's being tracked, as it was before you posted here.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 31, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Procton isn't tracking the Hornets' wins... just the Bobcats
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 1, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
actually, Procto is only 'tracking" wins wen it suits him
After the NY game Procto conveniently left Charlotte’s “projected wins” at 0.0 until the ‘Cats lost again. I’m sure it was done that way for dramatic effect. Nice move, douche.
by dudemanhey on Nov 1, 2009 6:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not exactly, chief.
I’m tracking when I have time. Feel free to note the date at the beginning of the post to tell when it’s most recently been updated.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 1, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Okafor hasn't played either.
He’s been out with toe and ankle issues for the entire preseason and had a grand total of FOUR practices with his teammates before opening night, one of which was a walkthrough. Okafor was never the reason this team has been no good.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Oct 31, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Okafor's a stud; Chandler's not.
I said from the get-go this was a terrible trade, and it’s proving to be exactly that.
by KT#7 on Nov 1, 2009 12:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
CHOO CHOO!!!
All aboard the Schadenfreude train! No ticket needed; just a desire for your favorite team to fail so as to prove that you’re right and they’re wrong about a recent trade!
I say let’s not do a day to day examination and just wait until the end of the season or at least the all star break for us to analyze the trade’s effectiveness.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 1, 2009 9:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Who wants the team to fail?
I certainly don’t. I just want give people an opportunity to look at how poorly Okafor will do given that he has no offensive game and is in the tougher Western Conference, particularly compared to Tyson Chandler, who’s going to make this team instantly better and become a better offensive player than Okafor ever was.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 2, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
It's funny you say that again, Procto.
Funny, because you’re the only one on this blog who has ever made that claim in the first place. No one thinks that. You are arguing against a phantom!
by dudemanhey on Nov 2, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're totally wrong, but don't worry about it.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 2, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I hate all of you...
sorry just wanted to get in on the action.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
by Aisander D on Nov 2, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
MADNESS
MADNESS I SAY, MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S. Thompson
by mad_dog_maddux on Nov 3, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
C'mon, really?
a) When the trade occurred, you said it was a mistake. This if fine, but when you make a thread to observe and analyze game by game performance it seems as if you want to reaffirm how right you were as soon as possible, even if it means your team losing many games. But now you’re saying think the Bobcats are a better team because of him, so I guess maybe I’m just a little confused: See comment #1
b) a phantom, really?
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 2, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The comment you're replying to is clearly a sarcastic one in its nature.
That is the ridiculous argument made by those who supported the Chandler trade as a basketball decision.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Nevertheless,
The fact that the comment I responded to is sarcastic just confirms that you are biased against Chandler. As a result, the bias causes this thread to have a desire to benefit from the Bobcats’ failure (psst, this is schadenfruede). Aaaaannd boom, roasted.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 3, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What the hell are you talking about?
I don’t want the Bobcats to fail. I want the Bobcats to succeed. Unfortunately, they’re not going to until they clean shop and get executives who won’t, say trade Bona fide All-Star production for a D-League line.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Talkin' 'bout Shaft
What I’m saying is that it comes across as if this is only to prove you’re right and the believers wrong, which makes any argument that you may make subjective even though you’ve intended to be objective. Nevertheless, I see that you are trying to only quantitatively look at their stats. I also agree that the executives are definitely standing in the way of the Bobcats’ success. Hopefully this little quarrel is over and to be honest, I enjoy your opinion. On another note, does anyone know what would happen if we keep replying? Will the responses become more like this?
c
o
m
m
e
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by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 3, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
And again, how can there possibly be bias in the statistics each put up? Do you think Okafor is playing extra hard to prove he’s better than Chandler on my behalf? I find that a bit absurd.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not bias in the statistics,
but bias in the argument.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 4, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Certainly I do.
What’s your point? Everyone has an opinion. Any item discussed is discussed with bias from the perspective of anybody in the conversation.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Player Efficiency Rating (PER)
Right now, Okafor has one of 22.38, while Chandler has one of 3.56.
Here’s the reference guide for PER:
*A Year For the Ages: 35.0
*Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0
*Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5
*Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0
*Bona fide All-Star: 22.5
*Borderline All-Star: 20.0
*Solid 2nd option: 18.0
*3rd Banana: 16.5
*Pretty good player: 15.0
*In the rotation: 13.0
*Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
*Definitely renting: 9.0
*The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0
Wow
That pretty much sums it up.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 3, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
And yet...
the New Orleans Hornets have only won ONE GAME which was against the perennial powerhouse Sacramento Kings. They also lost to the Knickerbockers last night. Still, I’ll reiterate that it’s too early in the season to make an effective comparative analysis.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 3, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Not Okafor's fault
Either the Hornets need to play Okafor 36+ a night, or they need a new backup center. Hilton Armstrong may be the worst backup in the league. Look at last night’s game, when Okafor was on the court the Hornets were +3, while when Armstrong was on the court they were -9.
Not only that, but the Hornets need a legit backup point guard. Brown is without a doubt the worst backup point guard in the league. It really doesn’t make any sense why Collison isn’t playing.
“Paul (12-for-18 for 32 points with 13 assists), Emeka Okafor (9-for-13, 24 points) and David West (7-for-13, 21 points) carried their share of the load. But Julian Wright contributed only two points, Morris Peterson added nine and the bench shot a combined 8-for-29, with half those buckets coming from Stojakovic. "
Four games isn’t too early. Early, sure, but not too early. The differential in Okafor’s and Chandler’s play right now speaks volumes.
Hilton Armstrong had literally one of the worst seasons ever last year for a guy with regular PT.
Guy sucks.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
And I found out why Collison ain't playin'.
Apparently both he and fellow rookie Marcus Thornton are struggling to figure out the defensive system there.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Saying Okafor is the reason for New Orleans losses is like saying Tyson Chandler is the reason for Charlotte's two wins.
Remember when we were all promised that Chandler would be able to run the floor and catch those amazing ally-oop passes?
Yeah, me too. Seems like that play has worked one time out of 12 attempts.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 3, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
He's so LONG and ATHLETIC and RANGY!
Oh, wait…none of those things mean you’re good at basketball?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, the wins are pretty irrelevant thus far.
Anybody who’s seen the Bobcats can pretty definitively tell you they’re not better this year (note the fact that we’re on pace for the lowest scoring average in NBA history), even if they’ve played two bad teams and beaten them. Feel free not to compare. I’ll keep updating the stats.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Summary of Michael Procton's thoughts as a "Bobcats Fan"
Okafor is the man.
Tyson Chandler sucks.
Raymond Felton sucks.
Larry Brown sucks.
Bobcats ownership sucks.
Chandler sucks.
Okafor is the man.
Ok, We get it! Its great to have such loyal and knowledgable fans such as yourself pulling for the Bobcats!
Would you, then, suggest that any of those assertions are untrue?
I certainly don’t see you making an effort to do so above.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Players who sucked for the bobcats:
Sean May
Othella Harrington
Jeff Mciniss
Juwan Howard.
a lot of the inaugural season roster.
Felton and Chandler dont suck. Theres a good chance they will always be just average. So what. They are starters on our team. We should pull for them, hope that they get better, and remain optimisic. If you bitch about your team long enough, a new one doesnt magically appear.
Yeah, the ownership sucks but at least we have an NBA team in Charlotte and can be entertained 82 nights a year and go to a game anytime we want for cheap. Would you prefer he never started the franchise?
There hasnt been enough time to judge LB about what hes done as a coach here. With the team we have though(lack of scorers), he is the best bet we have. He teaches team ball and we have a team full of role players. You know we played good ball after the Diaw trade last season until the last stretch of road games(which was bs). About his lack of success in NY, Look how good D’antoni has done with the team(plus 2 lottery picks)? LB’s star player was supposed to be Marbury and look where Maybury is now. You cant argue that LB and D’antoni arent good coaches.
No one wanted Okafor to get traded. I always said the only two players they cant trade are Wallace and Okafor. But hes gone, If you wanna go with him, Go. If not, stay and support Chandler. No matter what happens this season with the two players, it doesnt matter anyways. You can judge in two years when you see what the new owner does with the 20 million he saved by trading Okafor. Hopefully something f’n sweet.
Johnson didn't start the franchise.
The NBA did. Johnson was awarded the franchise because he was black and they figured it’d be good PR.
If you really believe nobody wanted Okafor to get traded, try searching the phrase Chokafor in this blog. Look at the trade reaction article. People, for some reason, hated a borderline All-Star who played hard every night and could be counted on for a double double with incredible consistency.
Further, you do not define the requirements of my fandom. I am fully capable of wanting this team to win while acknowledging that Felton sucks, Chandler sucks, and Gerald Wallace’s heart and hustle are the only thing that keeps us from being a 1502- win team.
And by the way, there is no $20 million saved in two years. At no point in his contract does Okafor get paid that much. At its highest (2013), his salary is $14.5 million. In two years, it’s only $12.5. There is no way that this team will convince an Okafor-caliber player to sign here to play for a 30-win team with a TBD coach (no way in HELL Brown is here at that point) in front of 6,000 fans a night. Until we’re a winner (and that’s clearly not in sight), we’re going to have to build by smart drafting and signing our own free agents. Looking at our recent draft history, that’ll take a while. Being a fan isn’t about fooling yourself into thinking your team is good when it’s clearly not. It’s about being realistic and understanding the changes you need to make to get where you want to go (the championship level.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Yeah, I’m not letting people get off the hook that easily. The numerous post surrounding the trade and concerning it consisted of 5-6 people hating the trade and 25-30 saying it was great, calling him Chokafor and calling those 5-6 people who hated the deal ‘boyfriends of Chokafor’.
Funny how those same 25-30 who loved the deal also wanted us to sign Allen Iverson who after one game is already complaining about coming off the bench… interesting.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 4, 2009 7:22 AM EST up reply actions
You think his "injury" was a coincidence?
Seems to me he just didn’t like what he was told about his PT.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 4, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Technicalities aside
Would you prefer the bobcats were never started?
I know I can’t tell you how to be a fan, but you can’t tell me that you are a fan when in my opinion, you and everyone else that talks shit about their team, are not. Every comment you ever type is something negative about your team. Would a Bobcats fan really not like and appreciate their alltime leader in assists?
Tyson’s contract-2 yrs 23,400,000
Emeka’s- 5 yrs 53,987,500
Money saved-30,587,500
Is that a little easier for you to understand? You’re telling me no one will want to come here when the team has an extra 30 mil laying around?
You obviously enjoy pointing out flaws more than you do basketball. What are you gonna have to talk about when the Bobcats are a championship contender?
I would like to know which superstar free agent would come to Charlotte, NC and play for a team not competing for a championship?
Recent history has proved that the superstars aren’t concerned with where the money is, they’re signing with championship caliber teams or desirable cities.
Charlotte is neither.
This is why the market is being forced up on players like Hedo Turkoglu, Paul Millsap and Martin Gortat, because alot of mid-small market teams have too much money and no legitimate star they can lure.
I don’t believe trading Okafor was a magic 1st step to contending for a championship. We’ve blown too many drafts recently to be talking about a championship.
Now, if we traded Felton and May for CP3 on draft night, we took Danny Granger instead of Adam Morrison and selected Brook Lopez instead of Augustin it might be a different story.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 5, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Granger wasn't Morrison's year.
Granger was the guy we should have taken instead of May if they were desperate to get a UNC player. The guy we should have gotten Roy instead of Morrison (although nobody in their right mind would have agreed with you at the time.)
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
My mistake
Yeah, Brandon Roy.
I remember there were several analysts who said Roy would be better, but Morrison made more sense because he was more ‘NBA ready’
Though you’re right, the vast majority of the media loved the pick.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 5, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
And the Bobcats were DESPERATE for a go-to scorer.
No less than Michael Jordan himself determined he was the best guy in our spot for that. Roy wasn’t supposed to have 30 point nights potential, and I’ve seen places that put his potential at “a more athletic Doug Christie.”
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 6, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not convinced we arent good enough to compete in the playoffs.
I think with the cast we have and with LB as coach, we can beat anyone on any given night.
I didnt say anything about a superstar coming here. Procton said we could never get another Okafor caliber player. Chances are we wont get a superstar except through the draft. I do think that we could get an okafor caliber player or a player that is a step beneath superstar through free agency though.
You cant hate on the Cats for the Felton and May picks. Most teams would take 2 lottery picks over one anyday. Especially when they would only move up one pick from where they picked Felton. Chris Paul looked good in college but not superstar good. Felton and May both looked like beasts in college. How were they supposed to know May would tank out and Morrison would grow a mangina. Augustine is gonna be sick soon and If we didnt pick him we would be screwed when Felton leaves next year. I do envy Lopez though. At least we didnt get stuck with Joe Alexander though. The only pick I think we really can hate on them for is Ajinca at #20 because we traded a future draft pick and because he shouldve never gone in the first round. They didnt draft Lopez because they thought they could get Hibbert or hickson at 20. Then they were both snatched right before we could get them.
MOST teams knew Sean May was a fattie who'd never be healthy.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 8, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
A Bobcats fan wouldn't necessarily give a crap about the team's all-time leader in ANYTHING.
The team’s been around for a whopping, what, six years? Primoz Brezec is the team’s second-leading field-goal shooter of all time. Do you worship the ground he walks on?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
No, but...
I prefer to worship the ground Jake Voskuhl walks on!
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 5, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Jake Voskuhl, who recently became a free agent!
Couldn’t be much worse than Ajinca…
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 5, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Damn!
Lonny Baxter was signed by the Beşiktaş Cola Turka last summer! Man, I was hoping we’d pick him up.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 6, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
Okafor had to go
I know – it’s a bold statement, and it flies in the face of everything Michael is saying, but bear with me.
Before I get started, I want to address the comment that Johnson was awarded the team because of race. If memory serves, the only other contenders for the franchise were a consortium that featured Larry Bird. Sure he’s white, but the rest of his group wasn’t (Nate Archibald et al) and the reason the league was looking to get back into Charlotte was because of the incredible ticket sales the Hornets had in even their worst seasons. It had finally been proven that the Carolinas weren’t just the Tobacco Road college area and a pro team COULD be profitable here. When Shinn blew town the NBA all but promised us they would award a franchise to the first viable candidates wanting to drop another team into Charlotte. The league wanted Charlotte over say, Raleigh/Durham in the thought that by basing the team close to the border, it would draw fans from both States.
Now as to the whole Okafor thing…
We needed to make changes and he was the obvious place to start. There is no denying his abilities and I loved having him here in Charlotte. But he was the most attractive bait we had to offer other teams. He’s young, has mad blocking skills, can score, and hasn’t hit his peak potential. His salary is big, but not TOO big in comparison to some of the other players with All-Star potential. When Coach Brown blew into town and Okafor wasn’t willing to adapt his still-growing game to the new defensive style that Brown demanded, he got labelled by Brown as being disinterested in the game itself. The writing was on the wall. The team was committed to Brown (and considering how well the Cats performed in the last part of the season a year ago I still believe they had good reason for it.) ANY front office in professional sports would have known that the best chance for improving the team would be to put Okafor on the market.
The problem, in my opinion, isn’t that we traded Okafor. The problem, the HUGE problem, is what we settled for in the trade. We could have done better and we SHOULD have done better. The numbers Okafor is posting this season are no surprise to anyone. The man is a major talent. You might not be able to build an entire franchise around him, but any team is improved by having him on the roster. That’s what made him such an attractive trade candidate in the first place.
There are only 3 reasons for a front office to make a trade: to improve the team, to lighten the salary burden and free money under the cap, avoid penalties, etc, or because the player has such an attitude problem that the entire team can’t function to its potential because of it. The Okafor trade falls under the first two reasons (although there was a weak attempt to make the third seem credible in the media at the time.) We got no immediate cap relief, although we’ll see relief in that area in the next couple of years. That leaves us with option 1 – improving the team. As even a blind man could see – especially with Michael Procton providing the read-‘em-and-weep stats for us after every game – Tyson Chandler has provided us with absolutely nothing thus far to justify a $10 million paycheck. Even should his performance improve, he’s extremely unlikely to provide enough input to constitute an improvement over Okafor’s regular numbers.
Again, I have no problem with the decision to trade Okafor. My problem is that we made a very unwise decision over what we were willing to accept in exchange for him and it looks like it may take YEARS for the team to recover from that decision.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 6, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
I can't say I disagree with anything you said.
I said when the trade went down that if it included Julian Wright I could swallow the deal.
I’m not inherently upset that we traded Okafor, but I am appauled at what we got.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 6, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't count him out just yet!
No Chandler didn’t walk onto the court and get a double double in his first game. But he has one under his belt and is getting better every game. I’m not saying hes ever going to be quite the stat machine Okafor was, but if he fits Brown’s system better than Okafor and is getting 9-10 points a game along with a handful of rebounds and blocks and the Bobcats continue playing better ball then why is Chandler the worst thing we could have gotten? I agree, Okafor was great, but hes gone, lets try and look at the bright side and at least acknowledge the fact that who we got in return is getting better.
How do you "fit a system better..."
When you score, rebound, and defend worse?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 8, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I would have to agree with a number of those too.
Even though Procton and I seem at odds with everything, I would have to agree that the Bobcats ownership is awful, and I am not sold on Felton and his inconsistency. Chandler still has a lot of work to do before he wins me over also, but I think he is capable of being a good addition and I am willing to give him time to transition (not too long, mind you).
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 3, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Just feel free to also note that Okafor has not exactly needed any transition time himself.
He was hurt for the whole preseason himself. Only four practices with his new teammates before his opening night blowup.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 3, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
That is true. Not to put all the blame on Raymond, but I would say it’s easier to improve and transition your game by moving to an established all-star PG like Chris Paul than taking a step down to Felton. Despite this, I would still give him time. But take that with a grain of salt, dear readers, because perhaps this is just me holding my breath and hoping for the best.
by WhatAboutBob_cats on Nov 3, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
SportCenter, 11/3
The Hornets-Knicks highlight opens with the lead-in: “Paul and Okafor.” Hmm…never saw a Bobcats game lead in with “Felton and Okafor.” Hell, never saw a Bobcats game lead in with Felton and anybody.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
LOL!!!
So true…and we still are not and will not hear it…
by andrewlail76 on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
No but...
I saw an Augustine to Chandler highlight reel worthy alley-opp in the game against Atlanta where Chandler was 5-5 from the field and pulled down 10 boards. I noticed you haven’t mentioned that yet Procto so I just figured I would let everybody know that awful excuse for a center we got for Okafor actually had a decent game!
If 10 and 10 is enough to go into convulsions...
You’re setting the bar pretty damned low.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 8, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Where are you tonight, Procto?
No surprise Procto isn’t here to update his fanpost tonight. A night where the the 2-4 Hornets lost again & the 3-2 Bobcats won. A night where Chandler recorded his first (of many?) double doubles for the Bobcats — going a perfect 5 of 5 from the field, and Okafor went for 6 pts & 8 rebounds shooting 3 of 8 from the field.
I know, it would kill you too, Procto, to have to project the Bobcats’s wins at …gulp…49. A winning record?!
Does this prove that Chandler is the superior player?
Obviously not. I just wanted to point out Procto’s predictable absence.
Give him time…
I think he may be a man of his word…
I even went to bed early last night, so give him a chance to get up and update…
I can say I was glad to see a double-double from TC***
I was getting worried
Yeah right....
Procto will refrain from updating this today…in hopes that that the ’Cats will lose tonight in Chicago and Chandler will have a stinker of a game.
Updating game to game is probably overkill anyway.
As long as it’s accurately updated once per week we’ll see what’s going on.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 7, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
This thread is hilarious
Namely because of the venom shot around.
But on a more serious note, what on earth is the rationale for a team with an amazingly low offensive efficiency (worst in the league, barely worse than the dribble an 8-man Nets squad has been putting up) trade essentially its only post scorer for a moderately better defensive center with zero scoring ability? Just curious.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Larry Brown was put off by the fact that Okafor cares about his body and focuses on his flexibility.
Also, Okafor didn’t go to UNC
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 16, 2009 3:08 AM EST up reply actions
neither did Chandler, Procto
You are almost the only one on this site that gives a damn about the Duke v UNC BullShit.
It has nothing to do with Duke.
It has to do with the fact that this organization has favored UNC guys on both the roster and in the management office.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 16, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just shocked Wayne Ellington isn't on this team.....
must be Gerald Henderson’s golf game.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
It was the money
Bob Johnson caught a bad case of buyer’s remorse after signing Okafor to a big contract extension. Okafor didn’t have enough flash and charisma. He was nobody’s favorite player, but he was the Bobcats’ most expensive player. They didn’t want to pay big money over a long period for a guy that didn’t score a lot and wasn’t known leaguewide by bandwaggon fans as a real star.
...if by "doesn't score a lot..."
You mean he never got the chance because Felton would rather jack up bricks than feed the post.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 17, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
Both teams have the same situation.
Only difference is CP3 makes his shots.
Okafor is on pace for 771 attempted field goals this season with the Hornets. He had 772 with the Bobcats last season.
In 06-07 when he was on pace for 905 attempts (before injury limited him to 67 games) he averaged 14.4 points.
In 07-08 when he had 860 attempts he averaged 13.8 ppg.
More attempts he gets, the more he scores while retaining the same average FG% . If he was fed the rock for 1,000 attempts he would (theoretically) average 16 ppg.
If he had 1,105 attempts he would only be 2 ppg less than Tim Duncan had with the same number of attempts in 06-07.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 17, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
When they were getting him shots early in the season, he certainly was.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 17, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Okafor being traded again?
I just read somewhere that New Orleans is trying to trade Okafor to Sacramento for Kenny Thomas.
New Orleans is learning
that $72 million is a lot to swallow even for Mr. Double-double.
New Orleans doesn't know what to do.
They’re acting petrified that Chris Paul will demand a trade especially after firing Byron Scott out from under them.
They’re turning in to the collosal ****ups of the NBA right now based on their potential.
After watching tonight’s game though it makes me wonder how good this team would be with Okafor.
Felton
Jackson
Wallace
Diaw
Okafor
You are now looking at a 5-6 seed in the East in my estimation.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 16, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Care to argue your point?
Give the Bobbie the 4 extra points Okafor scores compared to Chandler and you automatically give the Cats two more wins… and that’s not even taking into account his ability to actually stay on the floor and get 3 more rebounds, and roughly one block more.
Cat Scratch Reader's resident optimist.
by James The Aussie on Nov 19, 2009 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
Ray Ray Felton....
he’s the er…..difference maker. Or lack thereof. I still don’t think that team would get up to a 5 seed.
Blogging at Ridiculous Upside, where my terrible writing meets people's eyes.
I'm with you.
That’s a team that is a lock for the playoffs (which would be a nice start), but I’d say they’d still be fighting for a #6/#7. Outside of talent, you gotta learn to win before you can.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 19, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
We'll he's certainly not a top-five pick in his fifth year, if that's what you mean.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 21, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Who's paying him $72 million?
And Chandler’s deal was for $63 million, despite being signed years earlier…how does that make sense for Mr. Single-single?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Nov 17, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
It doesn't
I think I might have mentioned somewhere once or twice that Chandler isn’t worth the money he’s raking in. But in fairness, if things continue he’ll be getting paid less per personal foul than most anyone else on the team.
by Ourdaywillcome on Nov 17, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Its good to know that $11 mil per gets you a player that scores 2 more points than they have fouls per game!
Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
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